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  #1361  
Old Posted Aug 7, 2024, 4:12 PM
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Originally Posted by bdurk View Post
oh no please please please don't demolish the parking garage :'(
And there are at least twi parking garages and one parking lot that are included in the demo for the expansion south. In the other end, Vornado’s sites are mostly one story placeholders. But from some of the headlines, you would think a whole neighborhood was at risk of being demolished.
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  #1362  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2024, 5:08 PM
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https://www.enr.com/articles/59491-more-pieces-of-16b-hudson-river-rail-tunnel-come-together

More Pieces of $16B Hudson River Rail Tunnel Come Together





By James Leggate
October 11, 2024


Quote:
As work progresses on existing contracts of the $16.1-billion Hudson Tunnel Project between New York City and northern New Jersey, outgoing Gateway Development Commission (GDC) CEO Kris Kolluri said during the commission’s Oct. 11 meeting that seven of the nine contract packages will either be under construction or in procurement by the end of the year.

“A significant amount of work is happening on site and in our finance department,” Kolluri said.

Work on the Tonnelle Avenue bridge, which will carry road traffic over the New Jersey side approach to the rail tunnel, is about 48% complete, according to Hamed Nejad, GDC acting chief technical officer. He also told commissioners that 65% of secant piles for the Hudson Yards concrete casing on the New York side are complete, crews have begun underpinning the High Line, and 17,000 tons of soil have been excavated to date.

In the river, Nejad said crews have been working on a test section of the riverbed for stabilization and are preparing to start deep soil mixing.
Quote:
On the procurement side, GDC issued a request for qualifications for construction of the center portion of the two-tube tunnel. The scope of that contract is planned to include boring two 7,250-ft-long tunnels under the Hudson River using a pair of pressurized face tunnel boring machines, lining the tunnels with precast concrete segmental tunnel lining with a 25 ft, 2 in.-inside diameter, placing precast inverts in the under-river tunnel and the 5,100-ft-long New Jersey side of the tunnel, constructing nine cross passages and other work. Responses are due by Dec. 6, and Gateway leaders say they aim to have a contractor selected in 2026 to complete the work by the spring of 2029.

GDC has planned to build the tunnel in three segments, along with other work separated into additional contract packages. In August, the commission picked Schiavone Dragados Lane JV for a $465.6-million contract to build the New Jersey side of the tunnel. And earlier this year, it shortlisted three teams for the New York side. The shortlisted firms’ responses are due next month.

The commission also plans to release an RFQ for surface alignment work on the New Jersey side in November and order TBMs in December, Kolluri said.


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  #1363  
Old Posted Nov 2, 2024, 5:09 AM
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Lets see if the people screaming for more housing in the area really mean it…


https://www.bisnow.com/new-york/news/eco...s-potential-housing-to-9700-units-126582

10,000 More Units Could Rise Near Penn Station With Ultradense New Zoning Plan


October 31, 2024
Sasha Jones


Quote:
The New York Department of City Planning released a new draft of its Midtown South Mixed-Use Plan Wednesday, bringing significantly higher density to 42 Manhattan blocks than was allowed by state law until this year.

The plan would greenlight the construction of approximately 9,700 units of housing, up to 2,800 of which would be permanently affordable, according to an announcement by City Planning. The area's zoning currently doesn't allow for any residential use.

The mapped area would have a floor area ratio of up to 18, following the lifting of the longstanding 12 FAR restriction that Gov. Kathy Hochul signed into law as part of the state budget deal earlier this year.

A previous version of the draft allowed for just 4,000 homes, 1,000 of which were income-restricted.

“Midtown South is one of the most transit- and job-rich areas of the city, but it’s long been held back by antiquated zoning that has restricted new housing,” DCP Director Dan Garodnick said in a statement. “It’s a bold step toward building a more inclusive and dynamic Midtown.”

The proposed new zoning districts are close to Penn Station, the Port Authority Bus Terminal, Herald Square and Bryant Park. It applies to most of the area between 23rd and 40th streets and Fifth and Eighth avenues.

More on that plan here…
https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showthread.php?t=255735
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  #1364  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2024, 1:46 AM
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https://www.chelseanewsny.com/news/nys-s...nd-the-penn-rail-hub-in-future-XA3882752

NYS Still Says Office Towers Could Rise Around the Penn Rail Hub in Future
Nobody is counting on revenue from stalled office tower projects to finance the renovation, but that does not mean the towers could not be built independent of any Penn Station redevelopment, state officials are saying.



15 Nov 2024


Quote:
The state’s plan to build supertall office towers around Penn Station is still alive despite the office market crash, and some of the revenue from these new buildings could be skimmed to help pay for an expansion of the station that Amtrak is arguing for, a lawyer for the state said in court.

The lawyer, Philip E. Karmel, insisted that this position was not in contradiction to governor Kathy Hochul’s announcement last year that she was “decoupling” the improvement of Penn Station from the redevelopment of the surrounding neighborhood, an urban renewal effort known as The General Project Plan.
Quote:
But Karmel argued in court that the governor’s statement only applied to the urgent need to reconstruct the station’s train hall and waiting areas, a circle of hell for many commuters, and not to the separate plans by Amtrak and the commuter railroads to double the capacity of the station in the 2030’s.

“The governor’s statement only pertained to the Penn station reconstruction project,” Said Karmel. “It had nothing to do with the Penn station expansion project, which is still expected to cost something like $13 billion.”

Karmel said that “if there are excess moneys generated by” the office development envisioned in the GPP “they can go to the Penn Station expansion project that was not even addressed in the governor’s statement.”
Quote:
“[W]e are decoupling this from the prior plan, the GPP,” she said then. “That does not mean that we’re not going to be building office space here at some point. It makes sense. We have 600,000 people that come through here, it makes sense for them to be able to work in the same place where they commute to. So, we’ll get that done over time, but I no longer want that to be a delay, a delay to this process, which is moving forward today.”

While that statement could be interpreted as decoupling everything, a press release issued at the time said: “Penn Reconstruction is both separate and distinct from the future Penn Station Expansion.”
Quote:
Both Karmel and a lawyer for Vornado argued in court that even with the post-covid decline in the New York real estate market there was still a robust market for luxury office property of the sort envisioned in the GPP.

“The market for office space in New York City is stratified,” Karmel explained to the court. “With robust demand for office space in new office buildings in transit accessible locations that are built to a top tier, class A standard, and that have green sustainability features. And that is exactly the kind of office space that would be included in this project.”

Indeed, Vornado recently tore down the venerable Pennsylvania Hotel, immediately across Seventh Avenue from Penn Station, leaving a large vacant lot where it still says it hopes to build a 100-story office tower.

The GPP envisions as many as ten such towers, although Hochul has said she is open to incorporating more housing.
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  #1365  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2024, 2:15 PM
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Now Vornado wants to build a 100-story tower on the Pennsylvania Hotel site?
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  #1366  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2024, 3:54 PM
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Somebody has to explain to me how if the "market for new high end office is strong" then why isn't Vornado building it. Either it's not entirely true or there is a Vornado specific problem.

Given the state of NYC residential rents one could economically build a basically unlimited amount of units around Penn if the zoning was made to be accommodating. Something they probably should do.
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  #1367  
Old Posted Nov 17, 2024, 5:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sky88 View Post
Now Vornado wants to build a 100-story tower on the Pennsylvania Hotel site?
Just a reference to the height.



Quote:
Originally Posted by k1052 View Post
Somebody has to explain to me how if the "market for new high end office is strong" then why isn't Vornado building it. Either it's not entirely true or there is a Vornado specific problem.
This has been the case for a while now. When you look at the market overall, there is still such a large vacancy rate that the city is now looking at offering incentives to demolish old office buildings, those that likely have an issue with conversion. There are other towers that haven’t found their needed anchor tenant, like 2 WTC - even as the other new WTC towers have now filled up. But Vornafo has had its foot in and iut of the water for a decade, as far as building 15 Penn goes. Now they say interest rates are too high, and they want to wait a bit.

Quote:
Given the state of NYC residential rents one could economically build a basically unlimited amount of units around Penn if the zoning was made to be accommodating. Something they probably should do.
The city is already upzoning huge areas around Midtown with the highest FARs available in the city for the first time. And that’s a good thing. But what you want to do in your highest concentrated transit areas, like Grand Central and Penn Station, is concentrate your commercial districts there. Otherwise, in the future you would be looking at encroaching on existing residential neighborhoods for that, which is not the case here. But these towers were always ment to be phased in over a couple of decades, not all built at once. Down the line, they will become even more necessary.
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  #1368  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2024, 7:08 PM
William Van Alen William Van Alen is offline
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I was in Penn Station for the first time in a while yesterday. That underground concourse between the OG station and Moynihan is looking nice, and was super busy even pretty late on a Sunday. The food court in Moynihan is also looking good and seems to be well-utilized.

It's nice to see some progress on all the Penn Station projects. I lived in the city from 2013-2016 and being in Penn back in those days was such a miserable experience. It no longer feels like train riders are second-class citizens in New York.

Bonus points - all of the trains I rode were on time. I was coming back from a trip to Germany and it was refreshing to have a positive transit experience on my way back to Philly from JFK. Usually I'm just bummed when I come back from Europe or Asia and have to get back on American public transport.
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  #1369  
Old Posted Nov 25, 2024, 8:58 PM
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I have to say, for anyone that hasn’t been lately, Vornado has done a GREAT job with 1 and 2 Penn. It feels a little more touristy now, but that’s because people are liking the transformation. So when you suddenly show up to the Garden, and haven’t been in a while, it’s a bit of a shock. Everyone’s taking photos it seems.


Meanwhile, Gateway continues to move forward, and they are wasting no time on the new Portal Bridge. Unfortunately, its hard to find a clean window on NJ Transit these days. Just terrible.







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  #1370  
Old Posted Dec 13, 2024, 7:59 PM
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The plan still stands...


https://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/ny-supreme-court-appellate-division/116753950.html

Supreme Court, Appellate Division, First Department, New York.

]IN RE: AAG MANAGEMENT, INC., et al., Petitioners–Appellants, v. NEW YORK STATE URBAN DEVELOPMENT CORPORATION doing business as Empire State Development, Respondent–Respondent, New York State Public Authorities Control Board, Respondent, Vornado Realty Trust, Intervenor–Respondent. National Trust for Historic Preservation in the United States, The New York Landmarks Conservancy, The Preservations League of New York State, The Historic Districts Council and The Penn Community Defense Fund, Amici Curiae.



Decided: December 10, 2024


Quote:
......Here, the GPP and accompanying detailed neighborhood conditions study analyzing each site and lot “spelled out” the facts supporting the determination (see Yonkers Community Dev. Agency, 37 N.Y.2d at 484, 373 N.Y.S.2d 112, 335 N.E.2d 327).  This included poorly located subway entrances, narrow sidewalks, inadequate plazas and streetscapes, a derelict passage between Penn Station and the Herald Square subway station, inconsistent zoning, underutilization of lots, and outmoded building stock, among other things.  

It is enough that ESD presented facts showing “the site was outmoded, underbuilt and insufficiently utilized” (Matter of Don't Destroy [Brooklyn], 59 A.D.3d at 325, 874 N.Y.S.2d 414;  see also Jo & Wo Realty Corp. v. City of New York, 157 A.D.2d 205, 218, 555 N.Y.S.2d 271 [1st Dept. 1990], affd on other grounds 76 N.Y.2d 962, 563 N.Y.S.2d 727, 565 N.E.2d 476 [1990]).  Contrary to petitioners’ contention, Supreme Court did not simply “rubber stamp” ESD's findings (see Yonkers Community Dev. Agency, 37 N.Y.2d at 485, 373 N.Y.S.2d 112, 335 N.E.2d 327).

As to the civic project finding, we reject petitioners’ contention that ESD failed to find “that adequate provision has been, or will be, made for the payment of the cost of acquisition, construction, operation, maintenance and upkeep of the project” (Uncons Laws § 6260[d][3]).  

The GPP specified that prior to the commencement of any development contemplated thereunder, ESD must enter into contracts with developers setting forth all material terms of the transaction including funding mechanisms, hold public hearings on notice allowing for public consideration of each contract, hold a vote by the ESD directors regarding the approval of each contract, apply to the Public Authorities Control Board (PACB) seeking approval of funding, and receive PACB approval based on a finding at that time that “there are commitments of funds sufficient to finance the acquisition and construction of such project” (Public Authorities Law § 51[3]).  This process ensures that the requisite funding will be available when needed.  

Contrary to petitioners’ contention, the plain language of the UDCA does not require ESD to produce cost and revenue estimates at the time of GPP adoption (see Matter of Tompkins County Support Collection Unit v. Chamberlin, 99 N.Y.2d 328, 335, 756 N.Y.S.2d 115, 786 N.E.2d 14 [2003]).  

As ESD is responsible for the administration of the UDCA, which tasks ESD with determining whether a project qualifies as a civic project, we uphold its rational interpretation here (see Matter of Johnson v. Joy, 48 N.Y.2d 689, 691, 422 N.Y.S.2d 56, 397 N.E.2d 746 [1979];  Matter of Barklee Realty Co. v. New York State Div. of Hous. & Community Renewal, 159 A.D.2d 416, 416, 553 N.Y.S.2d 112 [1st Dept. 1990], lv denied 76 N.Y.2d 709, 563 N.Y.S.2d 61, 564 N.E.2d 671 [1990]).

We have considered petitioners’ remaining arguments and find them unavailing.
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  #1371  
Old Posted Dec 16, 2024, 10:24 PM
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Meanwhile, Gateway continues to move forward, and they are wasting no time on the new Portal Bridge. Unfortunately, its hard to find a clean window on NJ Transit these days. Just terrible.
On a side note with those NJ Transit windows, they are replacing all of them in time. Its damage from the UV rays, happened to many of the trains if not all of them with the sun exposure.

But yeah, it'll be good to see clearly out of them. Sort of the cataracts of window trains at the moment.
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  #1372  
Old Posted Dec 17, 2024, 12:59 AM
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^ The least they can do with the recent and scheduled fare increases.


Updated look at the new Portal Bridge....



Video Link




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  #1373  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2024, 12:37 AM
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nice to (kinda haha) see the portal work moving along so well.
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  #1374  
Old Posted Dec 18, 2024, 2:15 AM
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nice to (kinda haha) see the portal work moving along so well.
If you look out in the Hudson, you'll see tunnel related work as well.
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  #1375  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2025, 9:10 PM
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https://therealdeal.com/new-york/2025/03...-simone-presses-for-penn-station-vision/

Lawmaker presses Hochul to add thousands of housing units to Penn plan
Pitch puts pressure on governor to resume paused project despite massive headwinds






By Kathryn Brenzel
March 6, 2025


Quote:
The future of the former Hotel Penn site is a tennis court, a mixed-use tower or, according to the latest vision, a public space that could rival Bryant Park.

The last of those is the hope of Manhattan Assembly member Tony Simone, who is calling on the Gov. Kathy Hochul’s administration to change its plans for the paused megadevelopment that could rise around Penn Station. Simone wants the state to add more housing to the plan to allow thousands of apartments, up from the 1,798 residential units pitched by the governor, and to shrink the amount of office space.
Quote:
Under Simone’s proposed changes, upwards of 4,900 residential units could be built, though that figure would likely include hotel rooms as well.

The vision is still far from reality, and has an unclear path to being financially viable. Executives at Vornado Realty Trust, which controls five of the eight sites selected as part of the original plan, have repeatedly made clear that they view ground-up development virtually impossible in the current economic climate.

In an earnings call in February, Vornado CEO Steve Roth said the former Hotel Penn site was “ready to go,” but high interest rates, a lack of eager capital and the threat of federal tariffs on key construction materials likely stood in the way of the project moving forward, at least in the short-term.
Quote:
Roth said the company was considering its options for the site, but would likely build a mix of office and residential space. The company has floated short-term uses for the site — including tennis courts — but it seems unlikely that the real estate investment trust would be keen to scrap development plans for the site in favor of a non-revenue-generating park.

The real estate investment trust declined to comment.

The state would also likely need buy-in from the other owners of the buildings where Simone envisions adding more residential space — a dozen properties, mostly on 34th Street.
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  #1376  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2025, 10:10 PM
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https://www.crainsnewyork.com/politics-p...ew-penn-station-megaproject-more-housing

With Vornado plan stalled, Penn Station gets a new megaproject pitch





NICK GARBER
March 6, 2025


Quote:
A group of Midtown politicians is backing a new plan for high-rise housing around Penn Station, urging Gov. Kathy Hochul to finally ditch the stalled megaproject that would rely on office towers built by Vornado Realty Trust.

The proposal by Assemblyman Tony Simone would scrap the existing plan — which would allow for 10 skyscrapers almost entirely limited to commercial use — and replace it with a mixed-use complex consisting of about one-third apartments and two-thirds offices. The proposal has support from Manhattan Borough President Mark Levine, City Councilman Erik Bottcher and state Sen. Brad Hoylman-Sigal, and some support from neighboring landlords because, unlike the existing plan, it would not use eminent domain to seize private property.

It would, however, still rely on a general project plan, a development tool that allows the state to override local zoning laws in order to build.
Quote:
Simone’s framework, which is not finalized, calls for expanding the general project plan from eight to nine sites but turning the lot of the now-demolished Hotel Pennsylvania into a public park rather than the skyscraper envisioned by Vornado. The new complex would span 13.9 million gross square feet, compared with 18.3 million under the old plan, with room for about 5,000 housing units, compared with 1,800 in the existing plan.

Hochul, who has near-unilateral power to reopen the general project plan at any time, is “open to” the new proposal, Simone said. The revisions may be less palatable to Vornado, which has pursued a neighborhood-reshaping megaproject for years and has insisted its office-oriented initiative remains alive.
Quote:
Matthew Gorton, a spokesman for Empire State Development — the state entity spearheading the project — said in a statement that “Gov. Hochul remains committed to her vision for a new and improved Penn Station, anchored by hundreds of new homes, seamless access to transit, and major improvements to the surrounding streets and sidewalks.

“The governor will continue to work with all stakeholders to deliver a station worthy of New York while advancing her bold plan for swift action to address the state’s housing shortage,” Gorton added.


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  #1377  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2025, 11:11 PM
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In an ideal world, giant office towers are highest and best use for Penn District. You build commercial space, given it's the busiest rail station on earth outside of Japan.

All that said, Vornado is a very cautious office developer, and it wouldn't be a bad idea to build some giant residential towers until the office market is humming full throttle.

But definitely do not shrink the development capacity of the neighborhood. Allow for office towers, when ready. Keep the 18.3 million square feet of development rights, or upsize back to the original Cuomo plan, which was closer to 25 million or something.
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  #1378  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2025, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
In an ideal world, giant office towers are highest and best use for Penn District. You build commercial space, given it's the busiest rail station on earth outside of Japan.

All that said, Vornado is a very cautious office developer, and it wouldn't be a bad idea to build some giant residential towers until the office market is humming full throttle.

But definitely do not shrink the development capacity of the neighborhood. Allow for office towers, when ready. Keep the 18.3 million square feet of development rights, or upsize back to the original Cuomo plan, which was closer to 25 million or something.

Well, Vornado has previously stated they wanted to start with a residential tower, which would be the former Duane Read site on 8th. But leave 15 Penn open for a park? Not gonna happen, and in no world makes sense. It’s already questionable that they want to put a huge plaza on one of the sites.

But expanding the sites - like was previously considered by Cuomo may be workable. However, lets not forget the city is already rezoning this area and others nearby for housing. Always remember housing can be built anywhere. Office towers can not and should not. This is the place for them.
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Last edited by NYguy; Mar 6, 2025 at 11:35 PM.
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  #1379  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2025, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Crawford View Post
In an ideal world, giant office towers are highest and best use for Penn District. You build commercial space, given it's the busiest rail station on earth outside of Japan.
it's busy, but there are plenty of others outside of Japan that beat Penn Station, such as Gare de Nord in Paris, Hamburg Hbf, Frankfurt Hbf, London Waterloo, London Victoria, Gare de Lyon, Roma Termini, etc.

Penn Station is way down the list
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_railway_stations
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  #1380  
Old Posted Mar 6, 2025, 11:39 PM
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I hope that Kathy rezones the north side of 34th across from Macy’s for tall residential towers. It would be a dream to get rid of this rancid garbage.


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