Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion II

[cganuelas1995]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Did the driver turn on his blinker when the light turned green?

Not trying to defend a cabby of all drivers, but I see constant 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 behaviour out there. Main player syndrome.

Only looked when I heard the honking, blinker was on

[twoNeurons]

This is one of the best Expo '86 historical videos I've seen. And given it was going to be called "Transpo 86" it belongs here in this thread.

It hits all the nostalgia buttons... as a very young child at Expo, I have fantastic memories of going. I also realize that every year that goes by, having nostalgia for Expo '86 very much makes me feel old.

• Video Link

[chowhou]

I almost feel like this deserves its own thread; The Marpole Bus Depot has officially begun construction.

Construction starts on TransLink's new bus depot in South Vancouver for 300 battery buses

A major construction project by TransLink is now underway on the Fraser River’s industrial waterfront in South Vancouver, just beyond the southernmost foot of Cambie Street and immediately west of SkyTrain Canada Line’s North Arm Bridge.

TransLink spokesperson told Daily Hive Urbanized construction is now underway on the brand new Marpole Transit Centre bus depot.

This is no ordinary bus depot, as it will be TransLink’s very first brand new purpose-built bus depot dedicated to the future major fleet of battery-electric buses.

The current initial work on the vacant 20-acre site — situated just south of Canadian Pacific’s freight railway — involves site preparation work, including foundation piling.

According to the development permit application approved by the City of Vancouver, the entire site will be elevated on a platform about 4.6 metres above sea level to serve a “superdyke” function — higher than the existing ground elevation of between 2.5 metres and 3.3 metres. The complex will elevated about two metres higher than Kent Avenue along the norther perimeter, and a flood protection wall will be built along the south perimeter fronting the river.

The spokesperson further noted that Marpole Transit Centre is currently timed for a completion and opening in 2028. The project’s construction cost was last stated at about $300 million.

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/translin...us-depot-electric-vancouver-construction

[jollyburger]

Reindeer bus tracker

https://www.translink.ca/reindeerbus

[Jebby]

Didn't see this posted anywhere but it's a really great video

• Video Link

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Jebby

Didn't see this posted anywhere but it's a really great video

I love Stainer and there is a lot of great information in that video, but some of his thoughts on the Purple Line are not really based in reality. Willingdon from Deer Lake Parkway up to Grange averages a 6% grade, with the slope peaking around Briarwood at over 11% grade (!!). A quick Google Maps streetview should tell you that the Skytrain isn't running above ground up Willingdon...

[ecbin]

Originally Posted by chowhou

I love Stainer and there is a lot of great information in that video, but some of his thoughts on the Purple Line are not really based in reality. Willingdon from Deer Lake Parkway up to Grange averages a 6% grade, with the slope peaking around Briarwood at over 11% grade (!!). A quick Google Maps streetview should tell you that the Skytrain isn't running above ground up Willingdon...

I am pleasantly surprised that Burnaby has been planning for some possibility of a transit line along Willingdon for sometime but I figure the land along Willingdon between Grange and Moscrop/Deer Lake would more likely be used to widen that stretch of Willingdon to 6 lanes and then they'd run the train underground especially with the challenges of the grade there (though where would the portal go on the north end?)

Not sure that's doable but that stretch really limits the use of Willingdon as a north-south artery which Burnaby really lacks.

[xd_1771]

Originally Posted by chowhou

I love Stainer and there is a lot of great information in that video, but some of his thoughts on the Purple Line are not really based in reality. Willingdon from Deer Lake Parkway up to Grange averages a 6% grade, with the slope peaking around Briarwood at over 11% grade (!!). A quick Google Maps streetview should tell you that the Skytrain isn't running above ground up Willingdon...

Luckily, since elevated SkyTrain is elevated above ground, that presents some options where the ground/right-of-way below is running at a steeper gradient than technically feasible; the elevation of the guideway can be varied to maintain SkyTrain at the max technical gradient. Although this would result in some tall guideway segments, it can be done, and is actually being contemplated in a city nearby (the proposed guideway height on the West Seattle Link is quite insane). Alternatively, the guideway could be brought into a tunnel portal right at the point where the gradient becomes steeper than max (I personally expect a Metrotown terminus to be underground anyway due to the elevation change).

I know that while SkyTrain has a technical maximum gradient of around 6.5% (including points on the existing system at 6.5%), TransLink in practice tries to plan around 5.5% gradients for future extensions. This was in a spec sheet for a rolling stock RFP that I viewed awhile back.

[Lexus]

2024, Dec 3

Marpole

Untitled by Lexus LX, on Flickr

[chowhou]

Are those piles meant to be permanent? If so I didn't realise they were going to be doing some sneaky land reclamation. That's awesome to see and good to know it got past the green NIMBYs.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Are those piles meant to be permanent? If so I didn't realise they were going to be doing some sneaky land reclamation. That's awesome to see and good to know it got past the green NIMBYs.

There's a slight expansions from the current shoreline but it has more to do with sea level rise than anything. They are giving back the foreshore as an amenity (seawall trail or something).

Raising site grade to CoV Flood Construction Level

https://www.translink.ca/-/media/transli...ansit-centre---dp-board-presentation.pdf

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by chowhou

Are those piles meant to be permanent? If so I didn't realise they were going to be doing some sneaky land reclamation. That's awesome to see and good to know it got past the green NIMBYs.

It's not land reclamation, it's to raise the site. The entire facility is being built around 3m (about 10 feet) above original ground level, almost 5m above sea level, as a hedge against sea level rise. Of course, if the sea actually rises that much then the problem will shift to how to get the buses from the facility to the parts of the city that haven't been flooded out.

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by aberdeen5698

It's not land reclamation, it's to raise the site. The entire facility is being built around 3m (about 10 feet) above original ground level, almost 5m above sea level, as a hedge against sea level rise.

I'm seeing piles in the water and along the shoreline. Perhaps we have different definitions of land reclamation, but it looks to me like permanent dry land is being created where there previously was water or intermittently dry shoreline, no?

[aberdeen5698]

Originally Posted by chowhou

I'm seeing piles in the water and along the shoreline. Perhaps we have different definitions of land reclamation, but it looks to me like permanent dry land is being created where there previously was water or intermittently dry shoreline, no?

Perhaps their version "shoreline" extends to the low tide mark...?

Or it may be that they need to dredge out the area where they're installing the steel barrier wall. I'm no construction expert.

[madog222]

It looks they have more or less followed the existing shoreline, not land reclamation in any sense really.

From the plans in shapeyourcity it looks like the sheet pile wall is permanent. Here's a render.


From Architecture 49 https://architecture49.com/en/news/designing-the-future-the-marpole-transit-centre

[Stainer]

Originally Posted by xd_1771

Luckily, since elevated SkyTrain is elevated above ground, that presents some options where the ground/right-of-way below is running at a steeper gradient than technically feasible; the elevation of the guideway can be varied to maintain SkyTrain at the max technical gradient. Although this would result in some tall guideway segments, it can be done, and is actually being contemplated in a city nearby (the proposed guideway height on the West Seattle Link is quite insane). Alternatively, the guideway could be brought into a tunnel portal right at the point where the gradient becomes steeper than max (I personally expect a Metrotown terminus to be underground anyway due to the elevation change).

I know that while SkyTrain has a technical maximum gradient of around 6.5% (including points on the existing system at 6.5%), TransLink in practice tries to plan around 5.5% gradients for future extensions. This was in a spec sheet for a rolling stock RFP that I viewed awhile back.

This

But also the intersection with Willingdon and Deer lake parkway to Grange only has a 69 meter rise over 1.28km, so about 5.4% grade. Super doable over all with adjusting column heights to comply.

Even the steepest section Gilpin to Burke which is 42 meters of rise over .535km is 7.9%. I'm sure a solution could be engineered that would be an order of magnitude cheaper than tunneling. Plus even if a tunnel was used it would have to be very deep under the metrotown area to avoid basements from towers that already exists and the many many more that will be built over the next 30 years.

That's just how I see it. Keep in mind I'm not an engineer and have been wrong before. Glad you all liked the video

[jollyburger]

The site is located within the Fraser River floodplain with a Flood Construction Level (‘FCL’) of 4.6m (15
ft.) including a 0.2m (0.6 ft.) allowance for subsidence. This subsidence allowance is as typically
accepted in other areas of the city, including East Fraser Lands, when a subsidence analysis hasn’t been
provided by a qualified Professional Engineer.
Flooding on Kent Avenue (North & South) immediately north of this site is prone to flooding during heavy
rainfall and high tides. This overland flooding is due to the flat topography of the Fraser River floodplain
and will not be eradicated with the raising of the shoreline parcel. In response, TransLink has indicated
intent to construct a flood wall and coastal flood protection infrastructure at the south side of the
development site. Drawings and details of this infrastructure have not been provided as part of this DP
application as it is understood reviews and approvals will be resolved through the subsequent building
permit phase, pursuant to the Vancouver Building Bylaw.
Typically in Vancouver, dike designs are approved by the City. However, this site is unusual as Translink
is intending to build the flood protection asset on Crown Land before the asset is transferred to the City.
TransLink has made an application to the Ministry of Forests (referenced as Crown Land File: #2412167)
for tenure of the adjacent portions of Crown Land water lots to construct approximately 445m section of
floodwall along south property line. This process includes notification and engagement with First Nations.
The proposed floodwall is to be designed in compliance with the Vancouver Shoreline Flood Protection
Design Reference and the BC Provincial Diking Design & Construction Guidelines. Although the
floodwall design concepts are not submitted in this application, a "superdike" appears to be contemplated
and the transit facility will be raised to 4.6m elevation. It has been noted that approval of the floodwall by
both the City and the Province may be required and, if the floodwall will be a City asset, then the City will
require access to the full extent of the floodwall in order to conduct condition inspections, maintenance,
and repairs. An SRW is required to encompass the asset for maintenance and access as per Condition
A.2.1. Construction or changes to the shoreline or work within the river channel (such as riprap
placement) may require approvals from Fisheries and Oceans Canada and Ministry of Forests.

The nominally flat existing site (currently +2.5 to 3.3 m) will be built-up to a platform (‘super-🞵🞵🞵🞵’) of
+4.6m (with 0.2m subsidence allowance) above sea level to mitigate against potential flooding. This will
require mitigation measures to the perception of a large walled perimeter with appropriate landscape
transitions. The super-🞵🞵🞵🞵 will be supported on the south perimeter by a flood protection wall along the
river foreshore.

https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/mtc-final-report.pdf

[chowhou]

Originally Posted by Stainer

This

But also the intersection with Willingdon and Deer lake parkway to Grange only has a 69 meter rise over 1.28km, so about 5.4% grade. Super doable over all with adjusting column heights to comply.

Even the steepest section Gilpin to Burke which is 42 meters of rise over .535km is 7.9%. I'm sure a solution could be engineered that would be an order of magnitude cheaper than tunneling. Plus even if a tunnel was used it would have to be very deep under the metrotown area to avoid basements from towers that already exists and the many many more that will be built over the next 30 years.

That's just how I see it. Keep in mind I'm not an engineer and have been wrong before. Glad you all liked the video

It's all possible I suppose, but according to my back of the envelope calculations in order to maintain a 5.5% grade the guideway would have to be over 110 feet high (about 10 stories tall) at Price/Wildwood!

[Rico]

Originally Posted by chowhou

It's all possible I suppose, but according to my back of the envelope calculations in order to maintain a 5.5% grade the guideway would have to be over 110 feet high (about 10 stories tall) at Price/Wildwood!

Also remember for every station you also need 80m of flat plus a grade transition so actual grades would be higher than the back of the napkin.

[BaddieB]

Most likely above ground portalling around Moscrop, underground to Metrotown to McKay, perpendicular so it can continue down 49th in the future.