HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada


Closed Thread

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #11461  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2024, 1:47 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Gros Méchant Loup
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 72,949
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
I think you mean a jihadi like side.

Islamists don't like crusades (or crusaders).
I was trying to use a less inflammatory term than "jihad", but maybe I failed anyway!
__________________
Loin des yeux, loin du coeur.
     
     
  #11462  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2024, 1:53 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Gros Méchant Loup
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 72,949
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
Several heads of governments (who are not heads of states) came: the PM of Italy, The Netherlands, Austria, Armenia, Serbia, Albania, São Tomé and Principe.


I very much doubt it. In a Canada where 80% of the population would be Francophone, and the 20% of Anglophones a historically dominated minority, for the PM snubbing the reopening of St Paul's Cathedral, no controversy really?

.
I am not sure about St. Paul's Cathedral.

Notre-Dame de Paris is probably the second-most famous Christian building in the world after St. Peter's in Rome. Nothing in London even comes close to Notre-Dame.

Also, French-speaking Canadians are, historically, way more Catholic than Anglo-Canadians were Anglican (also known as the Church of England or Episciopalian in the US). I believe that English-speaking Canadians traditionally were more likely to be Presbyterian (with roots in Scotland) or Methodist (roots in England) which are two Protestant churches that merged decades ago to become the United Church of Canada.

Plus, many English-speaking Canadians are in fact Catholic.

So overall, Notre-Dame is far more significant in Canada for all sorts of reasons, than St. Paul's (or Westminster Abbey).
__________________
Loin des yeux, loin du coeur.
     
     
  #11463  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2024, 1:59 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Gros Méchant Loup
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 72,949
Though I still agree it was a "diplomatic own-goal" for Trudeau.

The official answer is that he was at the Polytechnique commemoration which is totally appropriate and the right thing to do. But that was Friday and not Saturday. The event in Paris was Saturday evening.

Then he apparently had an undisclosed engagement on Saturday. Turns out he was helping a community organization in Montreal move some stuff.

Of course Canada could have sent the Governor General instead, as I already mentioned. But... she doesn't speak French, so she wouldn't have understood anything! But that's OK, Trump and Jill Biden don't understand French either!

While this is not a huge loss for Trudeau it does look like a pretty decent win for Legault (and for Quebec, and so maybe by extension for PSPP).

Quebec was "Canada" at this event, and Legault even got face time (even if brief) with Trump, Musk and even Zalenskyy. (Not sure of the relevancy of the last one, of course.)
__________________
Loin des yeux, loin du coeur.
     
     
  #11464  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2024, 2:03 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Gros Méchant Loup
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 72,949
This reminds me of how former Prime Minister Jean Chrétien got rapped on the knuckles for missing the funeral of Jordan's King Hussein, because he had a ski trip planned.

Now, Jean Chrétien is not really Justin Trudeau's maître-à-penser (does he even have one?) but he is from the same political party, and Chrétien was definitely the understudy of Pierre Elliot Trudeau, Justin's father.

And of course King Hussein was a huge longtime western ally and a rare very stable actor in an extremely unstable region.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/world-leaders-flock-to-jordan-except-chretien-1.190570
__________________
Loin des yeux, loin du coeur.
     
     
  #11465  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2024, 2:26 PM
MonctonRad's Avatar
MonctonRad MonctonRad is online now
Wildcats Rule!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Moncton NB
Posts: 40,976
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Though I still agree it was a "diplomatic own-goal" for Trudeau.
If you are concerned that JT missed a chance to hobnob with the Orange One, he already went to Mar-a-Lago the previous week to bend the knee and expose his rear end to the Trumpster over the tariff issue. I don't think a second photo op would have made any difference.

I agree wholehearted with you otherwise. No Canadian PM would have made a special visit to London for a reconstructed St. Paul's (nice church BTW, I once ate take out fish and chips on the steps of St. Paul's, even feeding the birds like in Mary Poppins).

I also agree that Notre Dame figures larger in the collective Christian conscience of the world, no matter what language you speak. I have visited Notre Dame too (before the fire), and, aside from being accosted by Gypsies, I was really taken with the beauty and grandeur of the building. I remember watching the fire live on TV when it happened and being very upset and angry watching the spectacle. One of Macron's greatest legacies will be it's reconstruction. As soon as it became apparent that the reopening and rededication was to become an event where the world leadership was to attend, JT should have agreed to go as well.
__________________
Go 'Cats Go
     
     
  #11466  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2024, 2:34 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Gros Méchant Loup
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 72,949
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
I also agree that Notre Dame figures larger in the collective Christian conscience of the world, no matter what language you speak. I have visited Notre Dame too (before the fire), and, aside from being accosted by Gypsies, I was really taken with the beauty and grandeur of the building.
How poetically fitting, given that Esméralda, the main female character in Victor Hugo's Hunchback of Notre-Dame (Notre-Dame de Paris in French) is a Roma (Gypsy) girl.
__________________
Loin des yeux, loin du coeur.
     
     
  #11467  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2024, 2:45 PM
MonctonRad's Avatar
MonctonRad MonctonRad is online now
Wildcats Rule!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Moncton NB
Posts: 40,976
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
How poetically fitting, given that Esméralda, the main female character in Victor Hugo's Hunchback of Notre-Dame (Notre-Dame de Paris in French) is a Roma (Gypsy) girl.
Our tour director warned us about the gypsies, but despite this, one gypsy girl was still able to con me out of 20 Euros.

Gypsies at Notre Dame, Pigeons at St. Paul's. All part of the European experience I guess.
__________________
Go 'Cats Go
     
     
  #11468  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2024, 3:12 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Gros Méchant Loup
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 72,949
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
If you are concerned that JT missed a chance to hobnob with the Orange One, he already went to Mar-a-Lago the previous week to bend the knee and expose his rear end to the Trumpster over the tariff issue. I don't think a second photo op would have made any difference.
More than that I think he probably couldn't stomach being there for what ended up being Trump 2.0's splashy débutante ball on the world stage, and being upstaged by Trump for Macron's attention (which JT has gotten used to getting mostly for him at these global events).

Also, this was an occasion heavily laden in Catholic-Christian-Western-European imagery, and certain key electoral demographics for the Liberals are increasingly hostile to that stuff.
__________________
Loin des yeux, loin du coeur.
     
     
  #11469  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2024, 4:13 PM
New Brisavoine New Brisavoine is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,047
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Plus, many English-speaking Canadians are in fact Catholic.

So overall, Notre-Dame is far more significant in Canada for all sorts of reasons, than St. Paul's (or Westminster Abbey).
Which makes his refusal to attend more... glaring? I wonder, if the Sikh shrine at Amristar had burnt, and its was restored after 5 years of a tremendous feat of engineering and craftsmanship, and the government of India sent an official invitation to Trudeau to attend the reopening ceremony, would have Trudeau decided to turn down the invitation? La réponse est dans la question.
__________________
New Axa – New Brisavoine
     
     
  #11470  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2024, 4:17 PM
New Brisavoine New Brisavoine is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,047
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Of course Canada could have sent the Governor General instead, as I already mentioned. But... she doesn't speak French, so she wouldn't have understood anything!
All the attendants at Notre Dame were given some translating devices. Trump was wearing it to understand the ceremony (see the picture).



I think we all know why Trudeau didn't go. It will only reinforce in US conservative circles (who will run the show from January onward) that he's just a godless liberal woke guy. If he had come to Notre Dame, it could have softened his image a bit, and showed that he also cared about our Christian Western traditions.
__________________
New Axa – New Brisavoine
     
     
  #11471  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2024, 4:19 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Gros Méchant Loup
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 72,949
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
All the attendants at Notre Dame were given some translating devices. Trump was wearing it to understand the ceremony.

I think we all know why Trudeau didn't go. It will only reinforce in US conservative circles (who will run the show from January onward) that he's just a godless literal woke guy. If he had come to Notre Dame, it could have softened his image a bit, and showed that he also cared about our Christian Western traditions.
In post 11468 above, I explain why this may have been problematic for him.
__________________
Loin des yeux, loin du coeur.
     
     
  #11472  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2024, 4:22 PM
MonctonRad's Avatar
MonctonRad MonctonRad is online now
Wildcats Rule!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Moncton NB
Posts: 40,976
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
Which makes his refusal to attend more... glaring? I wonder, if the Sikh shrine at Amristar had burnt, and its was restored after 5 years of a tremendous feat of engineering and craftsmanship, and the government of India sent an official invitation to Trudeau to attend the reopening ceremony, would have Trudeau decided to turn down the invitation? La réponse est dans la question.


Been there, done that........
__________________
Go 'Cats Go
     
     
  #11473  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2024, 4:26 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Gros Méchant Loup
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 72,949
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post


Been there, done that........
And that's literally the Sikh Golden Temple in Amritsar behind him.

Though I wonder if these days India would even let him in the country.

Narendra Modi isn't a big fan of Justin Trudeau whom he accuses of flirting with Khalistani terrorists and separatists.
__________________
Loin des yeux, loin du coeur.
     
     
  #11474  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2024, 4:27 PM
MonctonRad's Avatar
MonctonRad MonctonRad is online now
Wildcats Rule!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Moncton NB
Posts: 40,976
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
And that's literally the Sikh Golden Temple in Amritsar behind him.
I know. That's why I chose that photo.

If there is one thing JT loves doing, it's playing Mr. Dress-up........
__________________
Go 'Cats Go
     
     
  #11475  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2024, 4:32 PM
New Brisavoine New Brisavoine is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,047
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonctonRad View Post
I also agree that Notre Dame figures larger in the collective Christian conscience of the world, no matter what language you speak. I have visited Notre Dame too (before the fire), and, aside from being accosted by Gypsies, I was really taken with the beauty and grandeur of the building. I remember watching the fire live on TV when it happened and being very upset and angry watching the spectacle.
The funny thing is that in France it's not considered our best cathedral. It's always been a bit overhyped. Of course it's a national symbol, so it struck a special chord in France both when it burnt and now with its reopening, but in artistic terms it's never been the most liked or valued in France. People often tend to think that it's largely a 19th century neo-Gothic reinvention (which is largely untrue, as many elements are really Medieval).

Personally it's not my favorite cathedral either. It lacks in grandeur compared to some other French cathedrals or basilicas, and it's true that a lot of it is 19th century (most of the statues for instance), so of course for an American it's not going to make much difference, because it's old nonetheless, but for us it looks kind of "too recent".

The rose windows are magnificent though. To me it's the best part of the cathedral.

But really I think the French find Amiens and Chartres cathedral on another level in terms of aesthetic. Reims cathedral is also great, as is Rouen, also Strasbourg and Metz. St Sernin Basilica in Toulouse is also much grandeur than Notre Dame in terms of visual impact (but it is Romanesque, so less renowned abroad than Gothic art). And the stained glass windows at Le Mans cathedral, which I discovered only 3 years ago, are absolutely mind-blowing, much more numerous and authentic than at Notre Dame (where the clergy unfortunately destroyed most of the Medieval stained glasses in the 18th century, because they found them "too dark", so what you see now are for the most part 19th century stained glasses, although beautifully copied from Medieval originals).

PS: On a side note, the grandest of all French churches was maddeningly destroyed in the 1800s by the vandals of the Bande noire, whose specialty was demolishing all sorts of châteaux and churches seized by the Revolutionaries, and selling the stones, marbles, slates, etc. on the resale market. It was the largest church in all of Christendom before St Peter was built in Rome in the 16th century. If it was still there, it would be one of the most visited sites in France probably. Some people have recreated it in 3D.



Video Link
__________________
New Axa – New Brisavoine

Last edited by New Brisavoine; Dec 9, 2024 at 4:48 PM.
     
     
  #11476  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2024, 4:39 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Gros Méchant Loup
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 72,949
Quote:
Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
The funny thing is that in France it's not considered our best cathedral. It's always been a bit overhyped. Of course it's a national symbol, so it struck a special chord in France both when it burnt and now with its reopening, but in artistic terms it's never been the most liked or valued in France. People often tend to think that it's largely a 19th century neo-Gothic reinvention (which is largely untrue, as many elements are really Medieval).

Personally it's not my favorite cathedral either. It lacks in grandeur compared to some other French cathedrals or basilicas, and it's true that a lot of it is 19th century (most of the statues for instance), so of course for an American it's not going to make much difference, because it's old nonetheless, but for us it looks kind of "too recent".

The rose windows are magnificent though. To me it's the best part of the cathedral.

But really I think the French find Amiens and Chartres cathedral on another level in terms of aesthetic. Reims cathedral is also great, as is Rouen, also Strasbourg and Metz. St Sernin Basilica in Toulouse is also much grandeur than Notre Dame in terms of visual impact (but it is Romanesque, so less renowned abroad than Gothic art). And the stained glass windows at Le Mans cathedral, which I discovered only 3 years ago, are absolutely mind-blowing, much more numerous and authentic than at Notre Dame (where the clergy unfortunately destroyed most of the Medieval stained glasses in the 18th century, because they found them "too dark", so what you see now are for the most part 19th century stained glasses, although beautifully copied from Medieval originals).
A bunch of stuff other than the building itself contributes to its renown: Victor Hugo and the hunchback, the musical theatre show, gargoyles, its symbolic locations almost at the very centre of Paris on an island in the Seine, the kilometre zero marker for all the roads in France, etc.
__________________
Loin des yeux, loin du coeur.
     
     
  #11477  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2024, 4:54 PM
kool maudit's Avatar
kool maudit kool maudit is offline
video et taceo
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 14,345
Notre-Dame isn't Chartres, but it's Notre-Dame de Paris... and Chartres isn't Paris.
     
     
  #11478  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2024, 4:56 PM
kool maudit's Avatar
kool maudit kool maudit is offline
video et taceo
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Stockholm
Posts: 14,345
On a Quebec note, I always thought it was funny how many people had the idea that Notre-Dame in Montreal is somehow a "version" of Notre-Dame de Paris when it looks more like an austere (exterior only!), Scottish version of Westminster Abbey. Our Lady of Aberdeen.

To my eyes, Sainte-Anne-de-Beaupré is THE Quebec cathedral/basilica.
     
     
  #11479  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2024, 4:57 PM
Acajack's Avatar
Acajack Acajack is offline
Gros Méchant Loup
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Province 2, Canadian Empire
Posts: 72,949
Quote:
Originally Posted by kool maudit View Post
Notre-Dame isn't Chartres, but it's Notre-Dame de Paris... and Chartres isn't Paris.
As I said, Notre-Dame de Paris is the second-most iconic Christian building in the world, after la Basilica di San Pietro in Vaticano (Roma).
__________________
Loin des yeux, loin du coeur.
     
     
  #11480  
Old Posted Dec 9, 2024, 5:00 PM
P'tit Renard P'tit Renard is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2018
Location: WQW / PMR
Posts: 1,426
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Garou the main singer was Québécois and he sang songs from the musical Notre-Dame de Paris written by Luc Plamondon, another Québécois.
Garou's rendition was great, but I really wished they invited Bruno Pelletier instead, which would bring it up to epic. I guess Garou's star is bigger in France, and Bruno isn't as well known. Even on Broadway/West End, there isn't many with that level of talent.

Bruno Pelletier - Le Temps des Cathédrales live 2020 @ Basilique Notre-Dame de Montréal
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6aM6xK65GQ
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Closed Thread

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > Canada
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 3:31 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2026, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.