General Phoenix Metro Discussion Thread

[somethingfast]

Originally Posted by Obadno

I have said this many times but like LA the things that would combine for a great downtown re spread out.

Imagine if Tempe was across the river from DTphx and old town was only a mile north adjacent to Midtown.

Our "downtown" would be far more impressive and compensate to other metros of our size.

True but one gap would still remain - height. We are severely vertically challenged. I think if only for vanity sake, Phoenix needs a 600+ footer to really feel like it's a "normal" major metro. San Diego is the only other metro that has that height issue but its density and architectural diversity is impressive. Personally, I'd take one landmark kind of tower (e.g. Devon Energy tower in OKC) over five more modest buildings. All preference I know.

[MiEncanto]

Speaking of Austin, it looks like an abundance of multifam supply is bringing down rent in a major way.

https://x.com/nickgerli1/status/1857185996653437197

"The Austin, TX rental market is collapsing before our eyes.

With the median apartment rent dropping 15% over the last 2+ years.

The vacancies have skyrocketed. Rental concessions are everywhere.

Rents are now only 9.8% higher than pre-pandemic. Meaning that many Austin landlords are losing money, as property taxes, insurance, and interest costs are way higher. "

[somethingfast]

Originally Posted by MiEncanto

Speaking of Austin, it looks like an abundance of multifam supply is bringing down rent in a major way.

https://x.com/nickgerli1/status/1857185996653437197

"The Austin, TX rental market is collapsing before our eyes.

With the median apartment rent dropping 15% over the last 2+ years.

The vacancies have skyrocketed. Rental concessions are everywhere.

Rents are now only 9.8% higher than pre-pandemic. Meaning that many Austin landlords are losing money, as property taxes, insurance, and interest costs are way higher. "

This is good news for me as I may end up relocating there. Seriously, something has to give in the housing market with prices/rates both so high. Prices will crash if Fed doesn't cut rates further. Which means more inflation, I know, but we are in a stagflation death loop of sorts and only way out is to grow real incomes through productivity which means more people being productive.

[MiEncanto]

Centurylink tower in midtown sold to Uhaul for just $24m. That's $43/sqft for 550k sqft.

Not to poke exit2lef unnecessarily, but I'm guessing the prior owner isn't thinking the LR is much of an ecodevo tool.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/money/bu...er-phoenix-new-headquarters/76802703007/

Phoenix-based U-Haul purchased the former CenturyLink Tower in midtown Phoenix for its new headquarters, only one block from its current campus.

The 25-story high-rise, located at 20 E. Thomas Road, is the tallest building in midtown, reaching 397 feet tall, and includes nearly 550,000 square feet of office space. It was built in 1989 and will be renamed the U-Haul Tower after the purchase.

U-Haul will pay $23.7 million for the tower.

U-Haul expects the sale to close on Friday.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by MiEncanto

Not to poke exit2lef unnecessarily, but I'm guessing the prior owner isn't thinking the LR is much of an ecodevo tool.

Who was the prior owner -- CenturyLink (an awful company based on my experiences as a former customer) or someone else?

Either way, I'm just glad to see U-Haul continuing to grow in Midtown.

[MiEncanto]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

Who was the prior owner -- CenturyLink (an awful company based on my experiences as a former customer) or someone else?

Either way, I'm just glad to see U-Haul continuing to grow in Midtown.

Per Assessor's records, it was last purchased in 2004 by Phoenix Plaza PT, but I can't tell who that is a front for. It's a Delaware LLC.

For 118 million.

[Obadno]

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news...hnologies-salama-intel-arizona-tsmc.html

If anyone can link, Another 1.5 billion dollar chip project.

[combusean]

Originally Posted by MiEncanto

Per Assessor's records, it was last purchased in 2004 by Phoenix Plaza PT, but I can't tell who that is a front for. It's a Delaware LLC.

For 118 million.

You're looking at the wrong records. Phoenix Plaza PT owns the twin towers where Banner is. The CenturyLink property is another entity.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by combusean

You're looking at the wrong records. Phoenix Plaza PT owns the twin towers where Banner is. The CenturyLink property is another entity.

Either way, it looks like a property owner sold the building to a longstanding Midtown company that needs room to grow. I hardly see this as setback for economic development along the light rail corridor.

[muertecaza]

On a state level, AZ continued its very consistent growth of around 100,000 per year in the latest estimates:

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-re...n-estimates-international-migration.html

https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/popest/2020s-state-total.html

We had positive natural increase of 9k, which is nice, and we have positive natural increase for the decade so far of 12k. Only thing that is maybe not replicable in the numbers is 64k in net international migration, which I assume is related to the high number of border crossings. Assuming those go down by next estimates, we may be back in the ~60k net increase range we had in 2023. It seems like we are trending towards Arizona's period of explosive growth tailing off, unless we can get housing affordability in check.

[locolife]

Originally Posted by muertecaza

On a state level, AZ continued its very consistent growth of around 100,000 per year in the latest estimates:

https://www.census.gov/newsroom/press-re...n-estimates-international-migration.html

https://www.census.gov/data/tables/time-series/demo/popest/2020s-state-total.html

We had positive natural increase of 9k, which is nice, and we have positive natural increase for the decade so far of 12k. Only thing that is maybe not replicable in the numbers is 64k in net international migration, which I assume is related to the high number of border crossings. Assuming those go down by next estimates, we may be back in the ~60k net increase range we had in 2023. It seems like we are trending towards Arizona's period of explosive growth tailing off, unless we can get housing affordability in check.

Moderate growth doesn't sound so bad. Especially if cities can focus inward and on quality projects as part of a more mature, less fast growth sprawl type development.

[builder03]

View of Phoenix skyline from Tempe yesterday.

https://imgur.com/6Emeu9L

[PyroD]

Originally Posted by builder03

View of Phoenix skyline from Tempe yesterday.

https://imgur.com/6Emeu9L

The flight control tower looks like an observation tower from that angle.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by PyroD

The flight control tower looks like an observation tower from that angle.

Could've been the Pin?

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by CrestedSaguaro

Could've been the Pin?

I'd forgotten about the Pin. It looks like it has been over a decade since that concept was introduced and quickly abandoned.

https://www.world-architects.com/en/big-...roject/big-pin-phoenix-observation-tower

[azcats]

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news...&j=38126495&senddate=2025-01-08&empos=p6

I also wonder how much of Soft Bank's $100 billion investment - will come to the metro Phoenix area?

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by azcats

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/news...&j=38126495&senddate=2025-01-08&empos=p6

I also wonder how much of Soft Bank's $100 billion investment - will come to the metro Phoenix area?

The amount of data centers needed will be massive (does not bode well for replacing that one downtown) with LLM's and AI and quantum computing (Although I'm told quantum computing is kind of a meme) the amount of data and computing power is going logarithmic. Smart move on the investors.

[muertecaza]

https://www.azcentral.com/story/money/bu...lore-building-nuclear-plant/78242628007/

It's a long ways out and it's early days, but glad to see the utilities taking future nuclear plants seriously.

Arizona’s three largest electric utilities are teaming up to explore ways to meet rising demand through the expanded use of nuclear energy, with a possible new power plant envisioned 15 or more years out.

Arizona Public Service, Salt River Project and Tucson Electric Power on Feb. 5 jointly announced that they have been monitoring emerging nuclear technologies and have a shared interest in evaluating their potential, in response to growing power demand around the state.

APS, the state’s largest utility with 1.4 million residential and business customers, will spearhead the effort. SRP counts around 1 million customers in the state, and TEP has around 450,000.

The utilities say they will consider small nuclear reactors as well as large ones and will assess a range of possible locations, including sites where coal plants have or will be retired. The companies describe nuclear power as a valuable part of a diverse energy mix, providing reliable and clean power 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

“To ensure a reliable and affordable electric supply for our customers, we are committed to maintaining a diverse energy mix,” said Ted Geisler, president of APS, which owns and operates the nuclear Palo Verde Generating Station, about 55 miles west of downtown Phoenix.

“While new nuclear generation would take more than a decade to develop, the planning and exploration of options must begin now,” Geisler added.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by muertecaza

https://www.azcentral.com/story/money/bu...lore-building-nuclear-plant/78242628007/

It's a long ways out and it's early days, but glad to see the utilities taking future nuclear plants seriously.

Nuclear has always been the only mass viable energy source going into the future that's both "green" and large scale enough to fund the electricity we will need.

Glad to see everyone is coming around to this fact after decades of wasted time and pointless fear about nuclear.

[Ttown5]

This is off topic but happens to be an area of expertise for me - nuclear is not THE solution as nuclear has shortfalls just like any other type of generation. We need a MIX for that reason. However, I think that nuclear will play a large role in decarbonizing our power system and it is vital that we support communities that are reliant on jobs and economic output from these legacy coal and natural gas plants that are going to be decommissioned in the future!