OC Transpo

[LRTeverywhere]

Originally Posted by DarthVader_1961

So in the past 2 weeks, I have had to provide of payment to fair inspectors…
2 times at an LRT station
2 times on the train
2 times on the buses.

After the 2 LRT Stations ( both at Rideau ) I wondered why there is no tap on the way out of the station.

To my mind, if riders had to tap out at the LRT stations, you could get better usage data for the various LRT stations.

Hell, if you had to tap when leaving the bus, that would provide even more usage data with which you could make informed decisions about the routes…

Am I crazy?

The O-payment web portal does have a placeholder section for tap out locations, so it may be something they are considering in the future.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

And if you had to tap out, we could institute zone- or distance-based billing so that people taking short transit trips wouldn't be subsidizing suburban weekday commuters.

When phase 2 opens we could at least charge for a transfer to buses (which cost substantially more) $1 for a transfer and maybe cut the LRT only fare by 75 cents.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

When phase 2 opens we could at least charge for a transfer to buses (which cost substantially more) $1 for a transfer and maybe cut the LRT only fare by 75 cents.

This will be the nail in the coffin for OC Transpo. Transfers do not always correlate to distance travelled. I live inside the Greenbelt and service going from direct ride pre LRT to 2 transfers next spring. We have to pay more for worse service. We build transit around more transfers and less reliable service. More transfers always mean more delays. Our plans for rapid transit have not delivered speed compensations for transfer delays

[lrt's friend]

This covers the OC Transpo problems over the last 20 years and explains why people are fleeing transit. If you can't get to your job on time, transit is useless. This video is very well done. Seeing my former city councillor Diane Dean's screaming at a council meeting was priceless. The truth is said when it is stated that OC once offered poster child transit and then explains how we have fallen so far and lost public confidence.

• Video Link

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

This covers the OC Transpo problems over the last 20 years and explains why people are fleeing transit. If you can't get to your job on time, transit is useless. This video is very well done. Seeing my former city councillor Diane Dean's screaming at a council meeting was priceless. The truth is said when it is stated that OC once offered poster child transit and then explains how we have fallen so far and lost public confidence.

• Video Link

The documentary failed to mention service cuts, budgetary pressures, and council's unwillingness to do anything about it.

It's more like a re-summarization of what happened with the LRT.

[lrt's friend]

You are right , but read the comments because it reveals how deep the public discontent and the real impacts on people's lives. It should be required reading for OC executives and planners and our city council. This shows that my relentless criticism is much more widespread than many would like to believe. The video does briefly mention the upcoming bus cuts as if they had already taken place. No matter how good the trains become, without good neighbourhood bus service, we are not making transit better.

[zzptichka]

Came across this depressing chart. From 2nd highest to 5th via 6th.



Transit journeys per person in 2023:

1. Montreal CMA: 92.38
2. Vancouver CMA: 77.92
3. Toronto*: 71.73
4. Calgary CMA: 53.84
5. Ottawa-Gatineau CMA: 50.12
6. Edmonton CMA: 35.84

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

You are right , but read the comments because it reveals how deep the public discontent and the real impacts on people's lives. It should be required reading for OC executives and planners and our city council. This shows that my relentless criticism is much more widespread than many would like to believe. The video does briefly mention the upcoming bus cuts as if they had already taken place. No matter how good the trains become, without good neighbourhood bus service, we are not making transit better.

What's your solution. I think you oppose straightening out bus routes. Other than making your suburban bus more frequent and direct to downtown rather than feeding you onto the train I guess paid for with a money tree what would make the situation better?

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

What's your solution. I think you oppose straightening out bus routes. Other than making your suburban bus more frequent and direct to downtown rather than feeding you onto the train I guess paid for with a money tree what would make the situation better?

What are the routes which both (a) "need" to be "straightened", and (b) can be "straightened"?

Because the problem with wiggly bus routes that would be better "straightened" is generally not the bus routes. It's the way we've been building suburbs since 1950.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

What's your solution. I think you oppose straightening out bus routes. Other than making your suburban bus more frequent and direct to downtown rather than feeding you onto the train I guess paid for with a money tree what would make the situation better?

Have you read the comments?

We have totally screwed up the transit experience since Line 1 construction began, then when Line 1 opened, we reduced frequency on key connecting bus routes and we have been reducing buses and reliability ever since .

When we planned rail, we didn't make sure that bus connections were efficient.

Our focus on capacity planning instead of making sure that transfers work, has turned off thousands.

Unfortunately, it is too late and will take enormous effort to recover even a portion of lost ridership.

Many lament about the loss of express service but it is the planners and city councils fault for not making transfers work. In my case, we have gone from express to two transfers. Should anybody be happy with that?

This should not be happening.

I will turn your question around. How would you make transit attractive again for the masses that once rode OC?

It is not just me. The ridership collapse tells us a lot that our very expensive transit plans are not working. Furthermore, our latest bus plans actually deliver worse frequency and more indirect routing on many routes. Token service is another ridership loser. But then you look at the enormous operating costs of running the trains that we chose and bus cuts were inevitable.

What is your solution to transit trips that now take one or two hours?

[lrt's friend]

I reflect on my tests with the travel planner with the planned bus revisions that offered a different routing on almost every trip from downtown, via St. Laurent, Elmvale, Hurdman and Bayview, always longer than the status quo. This is telling me that transit is continuing to get worse, especially when the most direct route is no longer the best. Are we going to turn off even more people?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Came across this depressing chart. From 2nd highest to 5th via 6th.



Transit journeys per person in 2023:

1. Montreal CMA: 92.38
2. Vancouver CMA: 77.92
3. Toronto*: 71.73
4. Calgary CMA: 53.84
5. Ottawa-Gatineau CMA: 50.12
6. Edmonton CMA: 35.84

Ottawa being at the bottom in 6th for 2020 is totally expected as it was the biggest work-from-home city in the country by far due to the federal public service.

But sure it's depressing that ridership hasn't rebounded nicely since then. Though an argument could be made that it still has more potential transit riders working from home than any other city. Even if now it's just 2 days a week. Elsewhere a much greater share of office workers are in the office 5 days a week.

[Richard Eade]

I think that the graph shows us quite a bit. We were a solid 2nd through 2007. Then came the bus strike in late 2008 / early 2009 that pulled ridership down for those two years. By 2010, we were back to 2nd place.

Then the big drop happened. The service ‘Optimization’ in 2011 dropped Ottawa into 4th place. Where it stayed until the CoViD-19 drop. As Acajack points out, it is not a surprise that Ottawa faired worst of all during the Work From Home (WFH) years. The bouncing between 4th and 3rd, with Calgary, is just a race between the two cities with respect to which city has fewer WFH workers remaining. I expect that we might eventually climb back to 4th, once we get the extended trains running.

But aiming for 4th is not such a great thing. Before the 2011 ‘Optimization’, we were two levels higher. And, if the ‘New Ways to Bus’ is anything like the last ‘Optimization’, I fear that, even with the extended train lines, we will remain in 5th place, at best.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

I think that the graph shows us quite a bit. We were a solid 2nd through 2007. Then came the bus strike in late 2008 / early 2009 that pulled ridership down for those two years. By 2010, we were back to 2nd place.

Then the big drop happened. The service ‘Optimization’ in 2011 dropped Ottawa into 4th place. Where it stayed until the CoViD-19 drop. As Acajack points out, it is not a surprise that Ottawa faired worst of all during the Work From Home (WFH) years. The bouncing between 4th and 3rd, with Calgary, is just a race between the two cities with respect to which city has fewer WFH workers remaining. I expect that we might eventually climb back to 4th, once we get the extended trains running.

But aiming for 4th is not such a great thing. Before the 2011 ‘Optimization’, we were two levels higher. And, if the ‘New Ways to Bus’ is anything like the last ‘Optimization’, I fear that, even with the extended train lines, we will remain in 5th place, at best.

It is pretty sad that Ottawa was once the poster child for transit for midsized cities in North America before rail. Remember how cheap and successful the original O-Train was. Then the 2006 cancellation, the 2009 strike that served no purpose, the 2011 service cut when ridership was booming, the rail construction and the silent service cuts that came with it. The botched Line 1 launch and the chronic shortage of buses and operators ever since, the pandemic service cuts that were never reversed, the closure of Line 2 for 4.5 years, cuts to Line 1 service and still to be implemented further bus service cuts. We don't know why ridership is not recovering. We don't know why the PS doesn't want to return to the office. I am also sure that non-PS workers are also abandoning transit. With that long list of problems, how could the outcome be different? This is called a death by a thousand cuts and we happily spent billions to get us here. Can you imagine what we could have had if only we asked a simple question before each billion dollar purchase. Does this deliver faster, more reliable service for our customers? Obviously, the answer was not yes.

[eltodesukane]

Not the most pleasant setup to wait for the train

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

It is pretty sad that Ottawa was once the poster child for transit for midsized cities in North America before rail. Remember how cheap and successful the original O-Train was. Then the 2006 cancellation, the 2009 strike that served no purpose, the 2011 service cut when ridership was booming, the rail construction and the silent service cuts that came with it. The botched Line 1 launch and the chronic shortage of buses and operators ever since, the pandemic service cuts that were never reversed, the closure of Line 2 for 4.5 years, cuts to Line 1 service and still to be implemented further bus service cuts. We don't know why ridership is not recovering. We don't know why the PS doesn't want to return to the office. I am also sure that non-PS workers are also abandoning transit. With that long list of problems, how could the outcome be different? This is called a death by a thousand cuts and we happily spent billions to get us here. Can you imagine what we could have had if only we asked a simple question before each billion dollar purchase. Does this deliver faster, more reliable service for our customers? Obviously, the answer was not yes.

I do enjoy how you list several contributing factors, give it the "death by a thousand cuts" label, and still wind up placing the blame solely on the metaphorical spending of billions. Very on-brand.

This isn't the result of spending billions of dollars. It's the result of the decisions that surrounded that investment, and I don't think we have any reason to believe that those poor decisions wouldn't have happened had we not built the LRT— e.g. look at how many of the contributing factors you listed occurred years before the LRT was even approved.

Also, you can't say "before rail" and then praise the original O-Train as if you haven't argued for spending billions more on diminishing returns to have a version of that line that personally benefits you.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

It is pretty sad that Ottawa was once the poster child for transit for midsized cities in North America before rail.

It's also sad that the bar is so low that the dismal Transitway era service was considered a "poster child".

Walking up and down a stop on Slater or Albert looking for "your" bus; the tendency for bus jams to form, even in the early years of the Transitway and in good conditions, let alone towards the end; the almost total failure of the projected "transit-oriented development" that the Transitway was supposed to have delivered... it was at best very OK, and at worst, a dreary transit experience and an urban planning mixed bag.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by OCCheetos

I do enjoy how you list several contributing factors, give it the "death by a thousand cuts" label, and still wind up placing the blame solely on the metaphorical spending of billions. Very on-brand.

This isn't the result of spending billions of dollars. It's the result of the decisions that surrounded that investment, and I don't think we have any reason to believe that those poor decisions wouldn't have happened had we not built the LRT— e.g. look at how many of the contributing factors you listed occurred years before the LRT was even approved.

Also, you can't say "before rail" and then praise the original O-Train as if you haven't argued for spending billions more on diminishing returns to have a version of that line that personally benefits you.

Should our billions in investment not have produced a better result,, so that more people would want to use transit? Isn't it as simple as that? I can relay my personal experience but really the bottom line is that thousands everywhere have abandoned transit.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

It's also sad that the bar is so low that the dismal Transitway era service was considered a "poster child".

Walking up and down a stop on Slater or Albert looking for "your" bus; the tendency for bus jams to form, even in the early years of the Transitway and in good conditions, let alone towards the end; the almost total failure of the projected "transit-oriented development" that the Transitway was supposed to have delivered... it was at best very OK, and at worst, a dreary transit experience and an urban planning mixed bag.

The Transitway were imperfect because we never built the downtown section. Nevertheless, its success was demonstrated when the downtown section reached capacity. It was a poster child as many cities used Ottawa as a successful implementation of busways to build busways in their own cities

[zzptichka]

Originally Posted by eltodesukane

Not the most pleasant setup to wait for the train

Have we ever learned what happened to the heated LRT-1 platforms?