Portland Diamond Project (MLB) | Proposed

[uncommon.name]

Since I felt the Oregonlive simulator didn't place the stadium properly on the lot, I mocked up PNC park to show how it could fit the space. This configuration could allow them to build a park up to the bank of the Willamette.

[Derek]

That really shows just how much room there is to work with on the site.

[uncommon.name]

Originally Posted by urbanlife

The best stadium to look at is the PNC Park since it is in a similar location to what a Portland MLB stadium would be located. Obviously the configuration would be a little bit different due to the placement of home plate, but the size of the PNC Park would fit in the northern location between the Ross Island Bridge and the light rail stop.

As for light rail, it is possible to include extra trains for game day times on an offshoot platform that would need to be built. There would need to also be track connection improvements so a potential Blue Eastbound and a Blue Westbound trains could connect to the Blue line and run in each direction before and after the games. The Orange line would just continue to run its regular course through the area. It would also be possible to add in the Green line train as well for game days.

Of course this also brings up new challenges like the Steel Bridge and it being at capacity, but I have no idea what the best solution to that is other than building a tunnel line through downtown and that is a whole other challenge.

In addition to this, Tilikum Crossing is also a bus bridge with multiple landings next to Zidell yards. Busses and shuttles could use this to move a lot of people on game days, where they could arrange for shuttles to run to several lots/garages east of the river and in downtown as well as hotel shuttle loops. I think logistically, this location is very solid with it's location next to a major transportation hub and lot of the parking would not need to be right next to the stadium. Honestly, I would love to see an entire district around this stadium infill in the area around it similar to T-Mobile Park/Lumen Field, where you can pre-game for hours near the stadium and walk in when they open the gates.

[uncommon.name]

Because I couldn't help myself, here are Dodgers Stadium and Yankees Stadium in that space. Of course Dodgers Stadium being NW oriented wouldn't be ideal. But this certainly shows you can fit even large MLB stadiums on that land.

Dodgers Stadium

Yankees Stadium

[urbanlife]

Originally Posted by uncommon.name

In addition to this, Tilikum Crossing is also a bus bridge with multiple landings next to Zidell yards. Busses and shuttles could use this to move a lot of people on game days, where they could arrange for shuttles to run to several lots/garages east of the river and in downtown as well as hotel shuttle loops. I think logistically, this location is very solid with it's location next to a major transportation hub and lot of the parking would not need to be right next to the stadium. Honestly, I would love to see an entire district around this stadium infill in the area around it similar to T-Mobile Park/Lumen Field, where you can pre-game for hours near the stadium and walk in when they open the gates.

Yes! I forgot about buses on the bridge, shuttle buses would be a real possibility which would open up a lot of options for parking on game days.

[PhillyPDX]

I think we are missing the point by "just" fitting in stadiums here. There is NO potential of area redevelopment nearby. The lot is squeezed in between permanent and obtrusive objects.

There is no example of another stadium where most fans need to connect to a game day shuttle service just to get to the stadium. I for one would not do that, outside maybe once or twice a year to humor my kids. I'm not even sure how much parking is across the bridges to park for a shuttle as the eastside is pretty well developed and OMSI has their proposal on the table to develop those lots. Neighborhoods won't look kindly at the idea fans will take their parking spots on game day.

But honestly, this might all be moot, because unless something massive changes in Portland's economy, I just don't see MLB selected a city with stagnant population growth and pain in the local corporate sector (Intel, Nike hurting, etc...heck even Knight Cancer center adjacent to this stadium location is hurting of late). Portland needs some big corporate wins to show it's back and can sustain a team into the future. Just hard to see how Portland competes with SLC at this point (unless I'm missing the seriousness of the respective owner groups).

[maccoinnich]

Originally Posted by PhillyPDX

I think we are missing the point by "just" fitting in stadiums here. There is NO potential of area redevelopment nearby. The lot is squeezed in between permanent and obtrusive objects.

The Zidell Yards does include the land between the Ross Island bridge and S Gibbs, which has more land area than the Brewery Blocks (and is zoned for more height than the Brewery Blocks were at the time they were developed).

[uncommon.name]

Originally Posted by maccoinnich

The Zidell Yards does include the land between the Ross Island bridge and S Gibbs, which has more land area than the Brewery Blocks (and is zoned for more height than the Brewery Blocks were at the time they were developed).

Could you imagine some mid-rise buildings there with views into the stadium, similar to Wrigley Rooftops? That would be pretty awesome.

Check them out here - Wrigley Rooftops

[mhays]

The Salt Lake CSA was 15% smaller than PDX in 2023, and a lot of its population is 40 miles away to the north and south. They're also skimpy in big corporate anchors. Portland seems like a much better MLB location.

I'd discount those distant populations somewhat. They'd be good for TV, but attending weeknight games that get out at 10:00? For most games in that 81-game home schedule? On the flip side, the pitch clock has shortened games...now just 15-20 minutes longer than the NBA per one source.

As a Mariner fan I'd love to have a nearby nemesis.

[babs]

It would require a new pedestrian bridge or two but there are tons of redevelopment opportunities west of the site across I-5 that could be opened up. What if you built the parking garage over the freeway. Now that's a great use of that useless land!

[ThatDarnSacramentan]

One would also hope that MLB is forward looking and would recognize that baseball season is almost certainly better in Portland than Salt Lake City, given that SLC ranks 10th in the nation for ozone pollution (highest in summer months) and the Great Salt Lake is drying up.

[PhillyPDX]

Originally Posted by mhays

The Salt Lake CSA was 15% smaller than PDX in 2023, and a lot of its population is 40 miles away to the north and south. They're also skimpy in big corporate anchors. Portland seems like a much better MLB location.

I'd discount those distant populations somewhat. They'd be good for TV, but attending weeknight games that get out at 10:00? For most games in that 81-game home schedule? On the flip side, the pitch clock has shortened games...now just 15-20 minutes longer than the NBA per one source.

As a Mariner fan I'd love to have a nearby nemesis.

This is true, but SLC has a ton of momentum at this point and a business friendly state to keep it going. Getting the Olympics again in 2034 as well, a huge PR boost around the time an MLB team would be coming.

I hope I'm wrong, but there really needs to be some positive news to show outsiders the economy is strong and growing here.

[Jakz]

Originally Posted by babs

It would require a new pedestrian bridge or two but there are tons of redevelopment opportunities west of the site across I-5 that could be opened up. What if you built the parking garage over the freeway. Now that's a great use of that useless land!

This is actually a very good idea. Parking garages are typically built with ~60 foot spans (two 20' parking spaces and 20' drive aisle), which is sufficient to span 3-4 lanes of traffic plus standard shoulders. This means that load-bearing caps aren't needed. For a six story parking garage, the only added structure cost is the cost of structuring the ground floor, or about a 20% increase.

[ThatDarnSacramentan]

While there's precedent for large parking garages over a freeway like in Minneapolis at Target Center, I don't think the conditions present at our site would allow for that. Among other things, I-5 is higher than Moody in elevation, and it's also not a straight alignment but instead the whole spaghetti tangle between I-5, 405, the Marquam Bridge, and the Ross Island Bridge.

As I look at the site in Google Maps more, it wouldn't surprise me if there wouldn't be at least a handful of people parking up at OHSU and taking the aerial tram down, although if my memory's right, the tram doesn't run on Sundays.

Realistically, probably the best opportunity for a large parking garage would be replacing the OHSU lot directly across from Caruthers Park. Put 5 or 6 levels of parking there, some retail on the ground floor fronting the park, and people just walk a few blocks to the stadium. There would also be the added benefit of gaining access from Macadam, which might help smooth traffic in/out.

[Jakz]

Originally Posted by ThatDarnSacramentan

While there's precedent for large parking garages over a freeway like in Minneapolis at Target Center, I don't think the conditions present at our site would allow for that. Among other things, I-5 is higher than Moody in elevation, and it's also not a straight alignment but instead the whole spaghetti tangle between I-5, 405, the Marquam Bridge, and the Ross Island Bridge.

As I look at the site in Google Maps more, it wouldn't surprise me if there wouldn't be at least a handful of people parking up at OHSU and taking the aerial tram down, although if my memory's right, the tram doesn't run on Sundays.

Realistically, probably the best opportunity for a large parking garage would be replacing the OHSU lot directly across from Caruthers Park. Put 5 or 6 levels of parking there, some retail on the ground floor fronting the park, and people just walk a few blocks to the stadium. There would also be the added benefit of gaining access from Macadam, which might help smooth traffic in/out.

I was stuck at home with a cold this afternoon, so I sketched up a concept for a cap. It's feasible, and the economics are surprisingly good. The sketch is drawn looking north at Pennoyer St.

Key components:
- Moving the NB Macadam lanes up to Hood Ave makes for a continuous 4-lane arterial from S Macadam (at Bancroft) onto S Hood Ave onto S Kelly Ave. It allows for the removal of the Kelly Ave flyover and opens up a lot of land for development. Macadam at S Waterfront would be a woonerf.
- Caps could run from S Abernethy to the Tilikum Crossing, about 10 blocks. The cross-section is typical south of Gibbs. North of Gibbs things are bit wild right now. However, almost all of the ramps could be removed. They function poorly, and they could be replaced with intersections. Many of them are already planned for removal as part of the Ross Island bridgehead project. Furthermore, if it makes sense economically, the NB I-5 Marquam bridge approach ramp could be relocated to parallel the SB I-5 descending ramp. This would open up about 5 blocks for development (right next to the stadium), and would make I-405 NB exit a more standard right lane exit.
- Freeway caps are most affordable when they aren't used to support building columns. This means either using the caps for parks or designing the buildings to span over the caps, only bearing at the cap support points. The latter strategy works well for caps with spans in the 55 ft - 65 ft range. Elsewhere in the country caps have typically been built with 90' spans (Denver, Dallas, Pittsburgh, Phoenix, Rose Quarter (well, 81 ft))--generally impractical for buildings to span over, even with transfer girders. The spans shown here are 65 ft, and would allow for four lanes in both directions.

Economics:
- Assume caps cost $750/sf. Denver's recent project (with 90' spans, requiring 2x strong structural members as 65' spans) cost $720/sf.
- One block of 250' long x 130' wide cap costs $24.4 million.
- Land value of one block in the S Waterfront is ~$10 million/block (https://www.portlandmaps.com/detail/property/3930-S-BOND-AVE/R712506_did/). A 200,000 sf property brings in $770,000/year in property taxes. Break-even on a single block would be ($24.4 - $10)/$0.77 = 19 years.
- Constructing the whole thing would cost ~$250 million, with with $100 million directly offset by the value of the land created. Value capture could be used to generate, say, $50 million from adjacent parcels (the market value of the parking lot at Lane St adjacent to the freeway is $6 million, half the value of the land two blocks east). That leaves $100 million, which could come as a grant, or could be a loan repaid with the first 13 years of building property tax revenue.

Back-of-the-envelope math, obviously. But I think it shows that caps here are technically and economically feasible.

[mhays]

I'd love to hear a contractor's take on the garage lid. The freeway would presumably remain open during the work, a major cost and schedule consideration. These things can to get geometrically more expensive depending on how much disruption is allowed. Prefabbing spans can limit disruption but that takes tons of land, which might not be feasible. (Denver built its lid while the freeway was in a different alignment next door.)

The central columns would take some room vs. the jersey barrier there now. (The median space is a little wider a block or two north.) Either way this would require some restriping. Unless the freeway was designed above current standards, this might require some widening to the east to accommodate a general shift.

I'd separate the garage floor-to-floor heights from the offices. There's no reason for the garage to have the extra three feet per floor.

In any case there's plenty of room for huge garages north and south of the stadium, with the only major hurdle being traffic flow.

[maccoinnich]

NAIOP Oregon Developer Panel next week will be about the PDP.

[HillsboroTech]

Dang, really wanted to go to the NAIOP Oregon Developer Panel but they are sold out now.

Can someone please post updates if anything new is shared?

[AdamNorthwest]

Originally Posted by HillsboroTech

Dang, really wanted to go to the NAIOP Oregon Developer Panel but they are sold out now.

Can someone please post updates if anything new is shared?

I attended the event. They didn't have too many details to share as there will be a major press release in late January, but they revealed one rendering showing the ballpark oriented northeast (meaning right field will be the Willamette), and a retractable roof oriented east-west that looks more like Globe Life Field than T Mobile Park in shape. All the redevelopment opportunities will be south of the Ross Island Bridge.

It sounds like our only other major competitor is Salt Lake City, but they are a much smaller market (population and media size). Apparently MLB plans to award a team in early 2026 (starting play in 2030), but that timeline sounds too aggressive. Either way, Portland needs to keep improving to have an edge over SLC, which will throw taxpayer dollars at a team.

[maccoinnich]

Globe Life Field is one of the few (only?) MLB stadiums I've been to, to see RBD last fall. If MLB 2 PDX results in more Mexican pop bands from the early 2000s playing in Portland, my husband will be very happy.