Metro Phoenix Transit/Transportation Developments

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

Even if this ridiculous categorial statement were true, it has nothing to do with cost to the consumer. The fact remains that they are nowhere near the same price.

I cannot force you to accept reality

However I still support light rail due to its ability to incept development along its length

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by Obadno

I cannot force you to accept reality

However I still support light rail due to its ability to incept development along its length

The greatest failure to accept reality in this thread is your false claim that rideshare and light rail have nearly the same price for the consumer.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

The greatest failure to accept reality in this thread is your false claim that rideshare and light rail have nearly the same price for the consumer.

People don’t ride public transport if it’s at all avoidable, they don’t like it lol

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by Obadno

People don’t ride public transport if it’s at all avoidable, they don’t like it lol

I'm not going to argue that subjective point with you. Instead, I'll stick to the facts. You falsely claimed that light rail and rideshare are essentially the same price for the passenger, and you've stubbornly tried to deflect and distract ever since then.

[somethingfast]

My two cents? Most public goods (like mass transport) are only truly attractive in a civilized society. If America were serious about curtailing rampant drug use and general lawlessness, the mass transit option would take more hold. But "normal" people (i.e., law abiding and decent) do not want to mingle with the fringes of society. Enforce the laws we have (public intoxication, harassment, etc.) and more people use it.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by somethingfast

My two cents? Most public goods (like mass transport) are only truly attractive in a civilized society. If America were serious about curtailing rampant drug use and general lawlessness, the mass transit option would take more hold. But "normal" people (i.e., law abiding and decent) do not want to mingle with the fringes of society. Enforce the laws we have (public intoxication, harassment, etc.) and more people use it.

The recent Grants Pass ruling from the Supreme Court and Phoenix's new ordinance regulating public camping give me hope that we're going to see less tolerance of the misuse of our public spaces, including transit, in the future.

[somethingfast]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

The recent Grants Pass ruling from the Supreme Court and Phoenix's new ordinance regulating public camping give me hope that we're going to see less tolerance of the misuse of our public spaces, including transit, in the future.

Hopefully we are starting to turn the corner. Civil behavior has to be expected and the norm for a public good to be utilized. For too long, the taxpayer has been expected to fund public goods only to have certain political camps to hijack them for use by the fringe as some kind of "right". That has to stop. If you can't behave and mind your own business, you aren't welcome.

[phoenixwillrise]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

Organizations have every right to do all sorts of things, but that doesn't mean every exercise of those rights is smart and beneficial. While the decision to stay in Alhambra is commendable, the fortress they've created still suggests fear of the surrounding city. Virtually every urban university is involved with the "inner city," and most have campuses that are less isolated from it. GCU's approach seems to be one-sided: Send its people out into the community to save them, but don't allow the community onto the campus.

I would say they have a responsibility to protect their students. The important thing is they do reach out to the community that surrounds them and regardless of whether they "save" them or not they will help anyone regardless of their response. Not sure how we got off topic here but the bottom line is running a spur to that campus would create more ridership on the LRT line.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by phoenixwillrise

I would say they have a responsibility to protect their students. The important thing is they do reach out to the community that surrounds them and regardless of whether they "save" them or not they will help anyone regardless of their response. Not sure how we got off topic here but the bottom line is running a spur to that campus would create more ridership on the LRT line.

On the last point, we agree. Despite a fortress campus that would limit the potential for transit-oriented development, a spur on west Camelback would still serve a large population of students, staff, and faculty at GCU, as well as Alhambra High School. It would be worthwhile from a ridership point of view, and it could eventually be extended into Glendale if that city were to change its mind about light rail.

Unfortunately, the Phoenix City Council voted back in 2018 to delay such a route indefinitely, effectively killing it. It was auto dealers, represented by two former city council members working as lobbyists, who led the charge, but GCU was silent, missing an opportunity to speak up in favor of something that would have benefited its campus population and the surrounding community.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/loc...ight-rail-extension-proposal/3229220002/

[MiEncanto]

If you don't think ASU takes the same approach, you should dress up like a drifter and try to hang out in ASU downtown. It's the same fortress approach and for good reasons, their customers (the parents) expect the students to be safe.

[DesertRay]

Originally Posted by MiEncanto

If you don't think ASU takes the same approach, you should dress up like a drifter and try to hang out in ASU downtown. It's the same fortress approach and for good reasons, their customers (the parents) expect the students to be safe.

It's a different approach for ASU. ASU located multiple campuses in parts of the Valley known as being sketchy (Mesa and downtown Phoenix), and integrated rail and transit into their plans. The campuses are much more porous for ingress and egress. I think both universities car a lot for their students, but as someone who grew up here, it's always been obvious that the ethos of GCU is more insular and ASU as more extraverted. Each uni can market to their prospective students based on this, and I hope they both succeed.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by MiEncanto

If you don't think ASU takes the same approach, you should dress up like a drifter and try to hang out in ASU downtown. It's the same fortress approach and for good reasons, their customers (the parents) expect the students to be safe.

It's not the same approach. At ASU DT, many of the buildings have access controls, as they should. Nevertheless, anyone can walk freely between buildings without impediment as long as they conform to basic rules of conduct. At GCU, on the other hand, there are high walls around the entire campus, and passage through their space is not possible without going through a security checkpoint where one has to declare what business they have on campus.

[MiEncanto]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

It's not the same approach. At ASU DT, many of the buildings have access controls, as they should. Nevertheless, anyone can walk freely between buildings without impediment as long as they conform to basic rules of conduct. At GCU, on the other hand, there are high walls around the entire campus, and passage through their space is not possible without going through a security checkpoint where one has to declare what business they have on campus.

Ya'll can believe what you'd like but the reality is the cops and ASU police keep the drifters away from ASU DT with such an intensity that the drifters know better than to even go there. Source: business owners downtown who deal with this stuff on a daily basis.

I think it's hilarious that GCU is taking heat for an 'insular' approach. LMAO literally NO one else is investing in this part of Phoenix. And their off campus approach to help their neighbors with programs like Habitat for Humanity seems laudable. I mean, do you expect them to not have campus security or walls? There's 20k+ kids in there surrounded by a high crime area.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by MiEncanto

Ya'll can believe what you'd like but the reality is the cops and ASU police keep the drifters away from ASU DT with such an intensity that the drifters know better than to even go there. Source: business owners downtown who deal with this stuff on a daily basis.

I think it's hilarious that GCU is taking heat for an 'insular' approach. LMAO literally NO one else is investing in this part of Phoenix. And their off campus approach to help their neighbors with programs like Habitat for Humanity seems laudable. I mean, do you expect them to not have campus security or walls? There's 20k+ kids in there surrounded by a high crime area.

Campus security? Yes, of course. There would be a risk of major liability without it.

Walls? (Actually fences -- I erroneously called them walls earlier.) Generally, no. They isolate the campus from the surrounding community.

The comparison to ASU is still flawed. There's a difference between watching for troublemakers and escorting them off campus (the approach at ASU DT) and creating at campus that is accessible only via a few checkpoints (the approach at GCU).

The work with Habitat for Humanity is laudable, but it's still part of the one-sided approach to community engagement at GCU. The university will send its people into the community, but generally does not allow the community on campus.

[azliam]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

Campus security? Yes, of course. There would be a risk of major liability without it.

Walls? (Actually fences -- I erroneously called them walls earlier.) Generally, no. They isolate the campus from the surrounding community.

The comparison to ASU is still flawed. There's a difference between watching for troublemakers and escorting them off campus (the approach at ASU DT) and creating at campus that is accessible only via a few checkpoints (the approach at GCU).

The work with Habitat for Humanity is laudable, but it's still part of the one-sided approach to community engagement at GCU. The university will send its people into the community, but generally does not allow the community on campus.

Until you start running GCU yourself, give it a rest seriously. You don't work there, you don't attend there. So let's not pretend you even know what you're talking about whilst playing armchair quarterback. There are plenty other topics you can focus on to help feed your ego.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by azliam

Until you start running GCU yourself, give it a rest seriously. You don't work there, you don't attend there. So let's not pretend you even know what you're talking about whilst playing armchair quarterback. There are plenty other topics you can focus on to help feed your ego.

No thanks. This entire forum is aspirational. A lot of people use it to express their desire for taller buildings. I appreciate those sentiments, but I think it's equally important to focus on what happens at street level. It's only a few clicks to add me to your ignore list.

[MiEncanto]

Originally Posted by exit2lef

Campus security? Yes, of course. There would be a risk of major liability without it.

Walls? (Actually fences -- I erroneously called them walls earlier.) Generally, no. They isolate the campus from the surrounding community.

The comparison to ASU is still flawed. There's a difference between watching for troublemakers and escorting them off campus (the approach at ASU DT) and creating at campus that is accessible only via a few checkpoints (the approach at GCU).

The work with Habitat for Humanity is laudable, but it's still part of the one-sided approach to community engagement at GCU. The university will send its people into the community, but generally does not allow the community on campus.

Always love it when aspirations trump reality. It’s not my style but I suppose we need dreamers.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by MiEncanto

Always love it when aspirations trump reality. It’s not my style but I suppose we need dreamers.

There's no reality in making false claims that GCU and ASU Downtown have the same approach to campus security.

[combusean]

I'm over this conversation and I'm pretty sure everyone's said what they need to say.

No more of this.

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by combusean

I'm over this conversation and I'm pretty sure everyone's said what they need to say.

No more of this.

Understood. In other news, Valley Metro has posted a map of what light rail will look like next year when the current single line splits into two intersecting lines:

https://vulcan-production.nyc3.cdn.digit...sion-downtown-hub/val_msys_rail-2025.pdf

There will be a north-south B line that meets the east-west A line in at the Downtown Phoenix hub.