Portland Diamond Project (MLB) | Proposed

[subterranean]

Same. Either they’re going to need to reclaim quite a bit of the Willamette, or relocate/underground the Ross Island Bridge.

[Jakz]

Petco and Oracle fit just fine on that site. If necessary, upper bleachers can cantilever over sidewalks/roads (see Providence Park). Plazas fit right in on the NW and SW corners of the site. There's lots of room for parking garages on the southern part of the site (south of Ross Island bridge), and there are several empty blocks nearby adjacent to / under I-5. It's a really good site.

[mhays]

The site is plenty large. The issue would be access, with Moody being gridlock sometimes, particularly if there's a lot of parking onsite.

Safeco is a slightly smaller site than the portion north of the bridge, though there's a little less width at the Moody end. Oracle (aka PNG?) is significantly smaller (would kayakers chase balls in Portland too?).

There's at least 13 acres south of the bridge for a parking garage, which could be around 1,950 spaces per level in theory (13*150). That would augment the various other modes, parking across Tilikum or in other nearby lots, etc. The problem would be 10,000(?) cars trying to exit onto limited streets.

A crazy idea would be to create an interchange with the Ross Island Bridge from the upper levels of the garage. This could have ramps on the north and south sides of the bridge, or simply connect with a three-way lighted intersection. This would need a long approach within the garage but outside the "gate" for efficiency.

[twofiftyfive]

Is the assumption that the stadium would have a roof?

[PhillyPDX]

Originally Posted by Jakz

Petco and Oracle fit just fine on that site. If necessary, upper bleachers can cantilever over sidewalks/roads (see Providence Park). Plazas fit right in on the NW and SW corners of the site. There's lots of room for parking garages on the southern part of the site (south of Ross Island bridge), and there are several empty blocks nearby adjacent to / under I-5. It's a really good site.

Per the overlay petco overlaps both bridges. Oracle touches the Ross Island and overflow tilikum by a bit. I would hardly say it’s an easy fit based on that seeing technically speaking neither one fits.

Is the south side lot on table too? Even if so, one single parking lot and a small local access road will be a complete traffic nightmare.

[downtownpdx]

Wonder if a park and ride on the east side of the Tillikum Bridge would help, a quick walk or max ride across the river?

[urbanlife]

Originally Posted by PhillyPDX

I’m still not quite sure how that lot works. The Oregonian stadium overlay images showed all example stadiums (save Fenway, but a stadium like that ain’t happening in modern era) overlapping with adjacent roads/bridges. That’s before you include entrance plazas, parking garages (there will be some, regardless of anti car folks don’t want them) which will significantly increase footprint needed. And it’s adjacent to only 1 realistic train option. People (tens of thousands every game) aren’t going to make transfers in big numbers, so parking is a must.

The best stadium to look at is the PNC Park since it is in a similar location to what a Portland MLB stadium would be located. Obviously the configuration would be a little bit different due to the placement of home plate, but the size of the PNC Park would fit in the northern location between the Ross Island Bridge and the light rail stop.

As for light rail, it is possible to include extra trains for game day times on an offshoot platform that would need to be built. There would need to also be track connection improvements so a potential Blue Eastbound and a Blue Westbound trains could connect to the Blue line and run in each direction before and after the games. The Orange line would just continue to run its regular course through the area. It would also be possible to add in the Green line train as well for game days.

Of course this also brings up new challenges like the Steel Bridge and it being at capacity, but I have no idea what the best solution to that is other than building a tunnel line through downtown and that is a whole other challenge.

[PhillyPDX]

Originally Posted by urbanlife

The best stadium to look at is the PNC Park since it is in a similar location to what a Portland MLB stadium would be located. Obviously the configuration would be a little bit different due to the placement of home plate, but the size of the PNC Park would fit in the northern location between the Ross Island Bridge and the light rail stop.

As for light rail, it is possible to include extra trains for game day times on an offshoot platform that would need to be built. There would need to also be track connection improvements so a potential Blue Eastbound and a Blue Westbound trains could connect to the Blue line and run in each direction before and after the games. The Orange line would just continue to run its regular course through the area. It would also be possible to add in the Green line train as well for game days.

Of course this also brings up new challenges like the Steel Bridge and it being at capacity, but I have no idea what the best solution to that is other than building a tunnel line through downtown and that is a whole other challenge.

I just mapped it from my inner NE house. 55 minutes with 1-2 transfers, 4.5 miles. That’s painful. Or 12 minute drive.

[Jakz]

Originally Posted by PhillyPDX

Per the overlay petco overlaps both bridges. Oracle touches the Ross Island and overflow tilikum by a bit. I would hardly say it’s an easy fit based on that seeing technically speaking neither one fits.

Is the south side lot on table too? Even if so, one single parking lot and a small local access road will be a complete traffic nightmare.

Oracle would fit completely with just a slight rotation. Petco overlaps the Ross Island bridge by like 10 feet. Shave off a few rows of seats and it works. The stadium will be designed to fit the site. Just pointing out that existing ballkparks fit on the site no problem.

The south side is part of the Zidell property, so I assume it is part of the deal. I agree substantial roadway improvements will probably have to be part of the project. But the transit situation is actually pretty good. The map below has the 30-minute transit shed. It's similar to Providence Park, which gets by without any parking at all.

https://www.mapnificent.net/portland/#12/45.4983/-122.6644/1800/45.5027/-122.6707

Also worth noting that the next two light rail lines (which will probably eventually be built) are SW and Powell. SW will have a stop 10 minutes away. Powell will have a stop right at the stadium.

[ThatDarnSacramentan]

Maybe one workaround could be setting up dedicated shuttle buses to/from downtown garages to the park, similar to the Washington Park shuttle buses that stop downtown. There are the two full block garages by the Keller. Even then, though, this being the Portland area, it doesn't seem too outlandish or unreasonable to expect people who drive in from other neighborhoods or outside the city to park near a MAX or streetcar stop and hop that for a couple stops. I just used the transit in Calgary to get to an event at the Saddledome, and the trains were completely packed despite the stop being noticeably further away from the venue than our SoWa situation and in much worse weather than we'd ever get during baseball season. People who might otherwise drive and park might even be incentivized to take transit instead given how Moody would become a choke point, one that the buses and MAX avoid with the viaduct between SW Lincoln and Tillikum Crossing.

[PhillyPDX]

Originally Posted by ThatDarnSacramentan

Maybe one workaround could be setting up dedicated shuttle buses to/from downtown garages to the park, similar to the Washington Park shuttle buses that stop downtown. There are the two full block garages by the Keller. Even then, though, this being the Portland area, it doesn't seem too outlandish or unreasonable to expect people who drive in from other neighborhoods or outside the city to park near a MAX or streetcar stop and hop that for a couple stops. I just used the transit in Calgary to get to an event at the Saddledome, and the trains were completely packed despite the stop being noticeably further away from the venue than our SoWa situation and in much worse weather than we'd ever get during baseball season. People who might otherwise drive and park might even be incentivized to take transit instead given how Moody would become a choke point, one that the buses and MAX avoid with the viaduct between SW Lincoln and Tillikum Crossing.

Of course waiting for transfers etc is such a pain with long 15 minute headways (I can drive is less time than I might wait for 1 transfer). You really can’t increase trains through downtown much.

Slightly unrelated, but I just got back from a DC work trip. Took metro from my hotel this trip, something I hadn’t done since I moved west. I forgot how efficient that is. 2-4 minute headways during rush hour. Suddenly makes transfers realistic for the average person. And the trains were packed, packed with biz professionals willing to use transit. Night and day to current max. Made me yearn for a downtown tunnel again.

[Jakz]

https://www.wweek.com/news/2024/11/22/la...bring-major-league-baseball-to-portland/

Some high-profile names here: "Mayor Ted Wheeler, Mayor-elect Keith Wilson, many city councilors and legislators, State Treasurer Tobias Read, and Treasurer-elect Elizabeth Steiner. (Many business leaders also attended, and Gov. Tina Kotek sent a representative from her office.)"

An interesting tidbit: "The Portland Diamond Project presented detailed renderings of what a stadium at Zidell Yards in South Waterfront would look like."

So...renderings exist somewhere, just haven't been released I guess. Anyone seen them?

[urbanlife]

Originally Posted by PhillyPDX

I just mapped it from my inner NE house. 55 minutes with 1-2 transfers, 4.5 miles. That’s painful. Or 12 minute drive.

Well sure, Northeast for the most part has always been horribly connected to the rest of the city. North Portland, along Interstate has a better connection than most of Northeast.

[subterranean]

Originally Posted by PhillyPDX

I just mapped it from my inner NE house. 55 minutes with 1-2 transfers, 4.5 miles. That’s painful. Or 12 minute drive.

Originally Posted by urbanlife

Well sure, Northeast for the most part has always been horribly connected to the rest of the city. North Portland, along Interstate has a better connection than most of Northeast.

For me, it's ~42 minutes via MAX from Beaverton with one transfer (11 miles), or a 33 minute drive at the moment (which I actually find very hard to believe). I would choose the train every single time.

[PhillyPDX]

Originally Posted by subterranean

For me, it's ~42 minutes via MAX from Beaverton with one transfer (11 miles), or a 33 minute drive at the moment (which I actually find very hard to believe). I would choose the train every single time.

Just checked a few spots. Elmonica Max is 52 minutes with 1 transfer at the moment vs a 22 minute drive, from Clackamas Town Center it's a 59 minute minute transit ride with a transfer versus a 22 minute drive. Tualatin is 50 minutes vs 17. And this is assuming you are starting AT the transit center, not even from a home nearby. And all times shown include a bus transfer that really can't handle a stadium surge.

As far as I can find with quick google search, roughly 25% of Blazers fans take MAX, and 5% bus. These numbers feel realistic anecdotally based on my going to lots of Blazers games. And that stadium is AT a centrally located transit hub with every Max line for easy access. At Zidell, we are asking 1/4 of the Max lines to bring people into a venue with roughly 2x the attendance. Tall order.

I'm going to be really curious how this will work in their planning. Show how you expect 35,000 fans to get to the stadium 81 times a year without clogging up every street nearby. Even if we go way high in the transit estimate and call it 20% take transit, you still need parking and traffic control for roughly 28,000 people, with one local road in.

[subterranean]

22 minutes driving time is not typical. Maybe at 6:30 in the morning when traffic is coming out of Portland to Intel, but certainly not anytime in the afternoon going in. Right now it’s showing 46 minutes from Elmonica (even counting a 6 minute wait for the train - I can easily walk to the station in 6 minutes) to South Waterfront from Elmonica via orange line transfer at Pioneer Square and 33 minutes for driving. From 3-5 pm that can easily be 45-1hr drive.

[subterranean]

I do agree though that this location is super not ideal. I think you and I are the odd ones out on this one.

[babs]

Originally Posted by PhillyPDX

Just checked a few spots. Elmonica Max is 52 minutes with 1 transfer at the moment vs a 22 minute drive, from Clackamas Town Center it's a 59 minute minute transit ride with a transfer versus a 22 minute drive. Tualatin is 50 minutes vs 17. And this is assuming you are starting AT the transit center, not even from a home nearby. And all times shown include a bus transfer that really can't handle a stadium surge.

As far as I can find with quick google search, roughly 25% of Blazers fans take MAX, and 5% bus. These numbers feel realistic anecdotally based on my going to lots of Blazers games. And that stadium is AT a centrally located transit hub with every Max line for easy access. At Zidell, we are asking 1/4 of the Max lines to bring people into a venue with roughly 2x the attendance. Tall order.

I'm going to be really curious how this will work in their planning. Show how you expect 35,000 fans to get to the stadium 81 times a year without clogging up every street nearby. Even if we go way high in the transit estimate and call it 20% take transit, you still need parking and traffic control for roughly 28,000 people, with one local road in.

There are only about 3000 parking spots at the Moda Center. No idea how many people park in the neighborhoods around it. But I think transit usage is higher than 25%. With 2-3 people per vehicle, that's 6 to 9k people.

Also remember, I doubt 35,000 fans will be at all 81 games. Few in baseball draw that. Move likely average attendance will be closer to 20,000 per game with the summer and weekend games doing better.

Comparison to Providence Park is probably a more accurate gauge of how many will use transit.

[PhillyPDX]

Originally Posted by babs

There are only about 3000 parking spots at the Moda Center. No idea how many people park in the neighborhoods around it. But I think transit usage is higher than 25%. With 2-3 people per vehicle, that's 6 to 9k people.

Also remember, I doubt 35,000 fans will be at all 81 games. Few in baseball draw that. Move likely average attendance will be closer to 20,000 per game with the summer and weekend games doing better.

Comparison to Providence Park is probably a more accurate gauge of how many will use transit.

When walking to Moda, you’ll see people walking all over to different areas. A constant stream of fans walking up Broadway/Weidler/Flint to cars parked throughout. Presumably why Portland is trying to punish those people by being more strict with parking in that area with recent policy changes focused on the those areas.

Providence could be a better comparison. But it’s also 40% smaller than a (Portland sized) baseball stadium, and it’s way better located to much higher use trains (red/blue), and really an easy 1/2 mile walk to green/yellow. And it’s also close to urban core and residential areas in all directions. It’s more a true urban stadium. Zidell is on outskirts of city and given constraints around it, will never really be a dense urban location. I have friends that live in S Waterfront that like it for just that reason (easy access to downtown, but isolated and separate).

[mhays]

Garage exiting is going to be a problem, particularly with Moody being narrow. How many cars can fit through a garage exit per lane per hour? This is why stadium garages tend to be smaller. Let's say the target is 6,000 parking spaces to augment transit and other nearby parking.

1. A 2,000-space garage at the existing OHSU Schnitzer Lot north of the stadium. This will primarily serve northbound fans. This could be two stories, with foundations for OHSU additions later. The parking could be shared with daytime users.

2. A 3,000-space garage at the south Zidell site, with a three-way intersection on the Ross Island Bridge as well as Moody (the latter targeting southbound fans).

3. A 1,000-space garage on OMSI's overflow site across the Tilikum Crossing.