Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[lio45]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Besides it's not Hamas that is party to the Rome Statute, but the Palestinian Authority of Mahmoud Abbas.

Then that would be grounds to exclude the Gaza Strip. It would be like suing the Taiwanese President for violations against Uyghurs in Xinjiang (“Republic of China” territory), or Ukraine for war crimes committed by Putin in Crimea in 2024, etc.

Logically, a breakaway part / out-of-control part of a member, ceases to be considered as part of its territory — can’t be blamed for what happens there.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Since I have briefly crawled out from under my rock, I will leave this here for discussion purposes:

Quebec mayor says 'one-size-fits-all' language law isn't right for his town where French is thriving
Many municipalities now barred from using English in most cases
Rachel Watts · CBC News · Posted: Nov 23, 2024 5:00 AM AST | Last Updated: November 23
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/...ge-law-small-towns-anglophones-1.7389848

So, are the mayors of these Gaspesie towns with comfortable francophone majorities wrong in wanting to continue providing services to their historical anglophone residents.

Or, are they vendus..........

Discuss.

Maybe not vendus, but perhaps naïve...

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Or, since that guy probably thinks we're "French", he could have given him this very French treatment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtlzaJ01qmQ

Actually the appropriate "French" answer to that player would have been: "Va t'faire foutre !" But I'm not sure this is used in Québec.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Actually the appropriate "French" answer to that player would have been: "Va t'faire foutre !" But I'm not sure this is used in Québec.

It's very well known here, but not spontaneously used by most people.

The most common thing is probably "va chier" or "va donc chier".

"Fuck you" is also well known and used by a lot of francophones here, even those who speak little to no English.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's very well known here, but not spontaneously used by most people.

The most common thing is probably "va chier" or "va donc chier".

"Fuck you" is also well known and used by a lot of francophones here, even those who speak little to no English.

That was one of the features of my preferred answer: it’s actually pure Quebecois slang while also at the same time being actual English too.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by lio45

Then that would be grounds to exclude the Gaza Strip.

Again it's not a membership. You can't "exclude".

You don't understand what the Rome Statute is. It's an international treaty, that entails severe constraints on the countries signing to it (which is why Russia, China, the US, in good company there..., haven't signed it). Once you're a signatory, you can be investigated and charged by the ICC if you do one of the 4 crimes over which it has jurisdiction.

You cannot be "excluded", it's not an organization, but you can decide to un-sign from the treaty. Mahmoud Abbas chooses to remain a party to the Rome Statute, because although it exerts some constraints on him (he can't commit one of the 4 crimes without personal consequences for him), it also means Israeli committing one of those 4 crimes in Palestine can be charged by the ICC, which is exactly what has happened.

Hitler or Hirohito would never have been a party to the Rome Statute in the first place, because like China, Russia, US today, it would have submitted them to an international court which they would have rejected, so they could not have benefited from the jurisdiction of the ICC when the US or USSR committed war crimes/crimes against humanity on their territories either.

Originally Posted by lio45

It would be like suing the Taiwanese President for violations against Uyghurs in Xinjiang (“Republic of China” territory)

Taiwan is not party to the Rome Statute. I believe only countries officially recognized by the UN can sign to it. The Republic of China (Taiwan) is not recognized by the UN anymore since the 1970s (thanks to... the United States of America! ).

Originally Posted by lio45

or Ukraine for war crimes committed by Putin in Crimea in 2024, etc.

War crimes committed by Putin are the responsibility of Putin. If your neighbor kills someone inside your house, it is your neighbor who will be convicted, not you the owner of the house.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Maybe not vendus, but perhaps naïve...

Naive? In what way? The history of these towns on the south shore of the Gaspe is different than the Saguenay or Montreal.

Anglophones and francophones have lived side by side for centuries along this coast. There is a comfortable francophone majority, and the anglophone residents are not viewed as an "existential threat" like they are in Montreal. What is the harm in allowing municipal communications to the dwindling anglophone minority to continue?

This question deserves more than a Gallic shrug as an answer.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Actually the appropriate "French" answer to that player would have been: "Va t'faire foutre !" But I'm not sure this is used in Québec.

France French: “Va t’faire foutre!”
Québécois French: “Fuck you!”

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

France French: “Va t’faire foutre!”
Québécois French: “Fuck you!”

Ouate de phoque?

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by lio45

France French: “Va t’faire foutre!”
Québécois French: “Fuck you!”

I thought you would have had a much more colorful way of saying it, using "ostie d'tabarnak de etc".

[lio45]

Coincidentally, I had a bit of an argument with my totally unilingual gf yesterday, and it’s the exact words she used. At this point it’s basically integrated in the language, just like some auto parts for example (or appliances such as a “toaster”).

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Ouate de phoque?

• Video Link

PS: Talking of which, this song was apparently a big hit in South America in the 1980s. A few months ago I read the comment of a guy from Chile or Argentina who said rediscovering the song suddenly reminded him of his childhood in the 1980s there.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

I thought you would have had a much more colorful way of saying it, using "ostie d'tabarnak de etc".

There’s a lot of ways to choose from

The main ones “va chier”, “fuck you”, “mange d’la marde”, etc. interestingly don’t involve any “sacres”. Though, of course, the greater argument certainly would feature plenty (“fuck you, t’es yin qu’un ostie de XYZ! etc.”)

[lio45]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Ouate de phoque?

Phoque iou. :p

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by lio45

Phoque iou. :p

Neveur magne. Bâdre-toé pas avec ça.

[Acajack]

Another video, this one from the end of the Vanier Cup game. (Scroll down.)

https://x.com/rainorshinemdia/status/1860799758186545338/video/1

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by lio45

There’s a lot of ways to choose from

The main ones “va chier”, “fuck you”, “mange d’la marde”, etc. interestingly don’t involve any “sacres”. Though, of course, the greater argument certainly would feature plenty (“fuck you, t’es yin qu’un ostie de XYZ! etc.”)

Talking of which, the other day I was reading an article about the "sacres" in Québec, and they came up with this sentence (apparently true one, from a lady reacting to a prank call) that just made me burst into laughter!!

Y sont mieux de jamais m'envoyer une facture, parce que ça va brasser en Jésus de plâtre de câliss!

It makes 0 sense whatsoever in France, but it's hilarious nonetheless.

Do people really speak like that??

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Another video, this one from the end of the Vanier Cup game. (Scroll down.)

https://x.com/rainorshinemdia/status/1860799758186545338/video/1

"Une bonne fin d'game"... vs "une bonne fin d'match" in France. Two people, two anglicismes.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Talking of which, the other day I was reading an article about the "sacres" in Québec, and they came up with this sentence (apparently true one, from a lady reacting to a prank call) that just made me burst into laughter!!

It makes 0 sense whatsoever in France, but it's hilarious nonetheless.

Do people really speak like that??

"en ti-Jésus d'plâtre" is definitely familiar but at this point has become very caricatural. It's associated with being a very rural, almost backwoods person.

Personally it reminds me of hockey player and coach (now a TV analyst) Mario Tremblay, who is from the Lac-St-Jean region and has a very telltale accent and colourful expressions. Not sure if Mario ever even said it on the air, though.

That said, we have lots of other colourful expressions that are commonly used.

[lio45]

« Y sont mieux, les osties, de jamais m'envoyer une tabarnak de facture, parce que ça va brasser en Jésus-Chri!!! ´Stie de câlisse de mangeux d’marde!!! »

^ wouldn’t be excessively cartoonish. The plaster part, nah, that’s over the threshold!

(A younger person would skip the Jesus one.)