Roads/Bridges projects/issues

[OTownandDown]

Just devil's advocate here, but what happens if we get a typical winter and the walking/skiing/biking surface turns to just black ice, or white ice.

I originally thought the first problem was TOO MUCH snow, thereby reducing the net height of the pedestrian guards. But you guys are probably right, the snow melts off pretty quick. IF we do get 5' and it stays up there, someone will have to review and close and groom and open. Active staff looking at the thing, at a cost of probably one or two site visits per day all winter.

Otherwise..

Not enough snow to groom it, so.. skiers will remove their skis and walk, probably, 80% of the time. Bikers will still come thru there. And walkers galore will continue.

Is it enough to just say 'caution, this is slippery'? The first knee-jerk reaction is to salt the sh*t out of it, as we LOVE doing here, to the detriment of our infrastructure and environment. However, salting isn't possible. Sand? Give up on skiing?

Then again, the access trails to the bridge are not plowed and not salted, so you've already had to walk at least 500m on snow/ice just to get to the bridge... so perhaps quality of the surface is a non-issue?

Anywho, I foresee the surface being just a sheet of ice several times a year. And some — is going to break a wrist or a hip. All the signage in the world isn't going to stop that from happening. Do we have a nanny state or nah? (I say nah with an accent, because I LOVE the way Australia approaches this. Simple signs that say "if you f*ck around here, you WILL die") Saw this several times at cliff overlooks, where a parking lot and pedestrian trail ends at a sheer drop with *gasp* no railing.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

What baffles me is that in the city's world it can be either closed or scraped & salted.

I'm sure the Winter Trail folks will be more than happy to run their roller after a snowfall to compact the snow, which will be just perfect for it.

That would be 100% wasted effort, as would have been amply demonstrated last winter if anyone had bothered experimenting on the bridge under "control" conditions.

It doesn't hold snow. It would by Sysiphean to even try.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by OTownandDown

Not enough snow to groom it, so.. skiers will remove their skis and walk, probably, 80% of the time. Bikers will still come thru there. And walkers galore will continue.

Precisely. Let's just enable what people are already doing and would like to do more of.

Is it enough to just say 'caution, this is slippery'?

There's already three hundred signs on the bridge; what's two more?

The first knee-jerk reaction is to salt the sh*t out of it, as we LOVE doing here, to the detriment of our infrastructure and environment. However, salting isn't possible. Sand? Give up on skiing?

Has anyone actually proposed salting? I am not sure that they have - it's been trotted out as an excuse, but I don't think it's ever actually been on the table.

Then again, the access trails to the bridge are not plowed and not salted, so you've already had to walk at least 500m on snow/ice just to get to the bridge... so perhaps quality of the surface is a non-issue?

All last winter, the two bridges were very noticeably less snowy and icy - up to and including being snow-and-ice-free - than either of the approaches or the Lemieux Island stretch.

[Spoonsy]

From what I recall the City struggled to find insurance after Frank Cowan dumped them post-Westboro & Fallowfield bus crashes and when they did premiums doubled that very next year, probably even worse now, so unfortunately I'm not surprised there's zero risk appetite left at City Hall to leave open a bridge over a frozen river that they state on their own website they cannot plow, salt, or grit.

Legal and insurance nightmare. Lawrence Greenspon could make a tidy sum off this thing.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Spoonsy

From what I recall the City struggled to find insurance after Frank Cowan dumped them post-Westboro & Fallowfield bus crashes and when they did premiums doubled that very next year, probably even worse now, so unfortunately I'm not surprised there's zero risk appetite left at City Hall to leave open a bridge over a frozen river that they state on their own website they cannot plow, salt, or grit.

Legal and insurance nightmare. Lawrence Greenspon could make a tidy sum off this thing.

Why would they need to plow, salt, or grit anything, though?

What is the object that needs plowing, salting, or gritting? Because it sure as hell isn't the wooden active transportation surface.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Why would they need to plow, salt, or grit anything, though?

What is the object that needs plowing, salting, or gritting? Because it sure as hell isn't the wooden active transportation surface.

This unit with a skid steer loader would handle most of the snows on that bridge.
https://tmgindustrial.ca/products/5030-a...35DxAyYgpOkb6YXBMHlXwxd6miwaAssHEALw_wcB

[Spoonsy]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Why would they need to plow, salt, or grit anything, though?

What is the object that needs plowing, salting, or gritting? Because it sure as hell isn't the wooden active transportation surface.

The City's position on this likely comes from a legal/risk mitigation angle rather than any basis on actual surface conditions. If they salt both approaches but can't extend the same winter maintenance standard to the bridge itself and then someone does manage to slip on it, they've likely done the risk assessment and determined that it's not going to play out well.

The City dispenses 185,000 tonnes of salt annually on every municipal surface at the first forecast of a snow flake... I don't think it's due to trigger happy plow operators but rather salt being a major component of the City's enterprise risk management policies.

[MarkR]

Originally Posted by Spoonsy

...The City dispenses 185,000 tonnes of salt annually on every municipal surface at the first forecast of a snow flake... I don't think it's due to trigger happy plow operators but rather salt being a major component of the City's enterprise risk management policies.

Yes indeed. 2cm of snow forecast and out come the salt trucks. It's insane. Sure, they could just leave that snow to get tamped down and (depending on the temp.) melted by traffic, but no.

As a winter cyclist, one thing I find odd is that the Laurier bike lanes often get so much salt down that it can be like cycling on gravel. Oh the irony of slipping sideways on a hard chunk of salt that's supposed to make my ride safer...

Oh, and while it's nice that those bike lanes are often very clean and clear, they are often in better shape than the sidewalks. I've had people just step into the bike lane and start walking without looking back to see if a bike is coming. (For this and other reasons I actually tend to avoid the Laurier bike lanes.)

[zzptichka]

Canada closed for the season. Don't even think about visiting as a tourist in the winter.

[Uhuniau]

It was a genuinely very good thing that the downtown councillors pushed for, and got, some winter maintenance and snow clearing on a couple of key bits of pedestrian infrastructure. But gracious snakes, that should have been the starting point of de-"winterization", not the totality of it.

Same for you, NCC.

Maybe we need a Winter Mayor?

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Canada closed for the season. Don't even think about visiting as a tourist in the winter.

I didn't even know that had opened again until you told me it closed again.

[Lakeofthewood]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

It was a genuinely very good thing that the downtown councillors pushed for, and got, some winter maintenance and snow clearing on a couple of key bits of pedestrian infrastructure. But gracious snakes, that should have been the starting point of de-"winterization", not the totality of it.

Same for you, NCC.

Maybe we need a Winter Mayor?

Haha despite all the Night Mayor stuff, I never heard Winter Mayor. I'm all for it!!

[zzptichka]

Is there "Ottawa in Winter" photo contest going on somewhere? I'd like to submit my entry.

Taken around the Parliament Hill after a first snow a couple of years ago.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by zzptichka

Is there "Ottawa in Winter" photo contest going on somewhere? I'd like to submit my entry.

Taken around the Parliament Hill after a first snow a couple of years ago.

That needs to be printed off on quality material and hung up in the City art gallery in City Hall (and I am 1000% not joking about this.)

[SkeggsEggs]

fences up on the Carleton U footbridge over the river ...

Ottawa, where you never step outside Nov-Mar

[rocketphish]

Rideau River bridge at Carleton University closed for winter — unexpectedly
Only opened in June, the bridge connecting Carleton University to Vincent Massey Park has been blocked off.

Sadeen Mohsen, Special to the Citizen
Published Dec 09, 2024 • Last updated 1 hour ago • 2 minute read



The Rideau River pedestrian bridge near Carleton University has been closed for the season, due to a lack of winter maintenance.

The bridge connected Vincent Massey Park to Carleton University, making commuting easier for students. It was officially opened in June 2024. The bridge was originally meant to remain closed until the Trillium Line LRT expansion opened.
Article content

In the last week, the bridge has been closed off with metal barriers and a sign from the city saying, “No winter maintenance.”

River ward Coun. Riley Brockington said it was “disappointing” that the bridge was built if there was a lack of intention to keep it maintained during the winter. Brockington said he and Coun. Shawn Menard worked hard to have that ”connectivity” between their wards.

“This bridge was built to be an…all-season bridge,” he said. “This bridge needs to be open and maintained in all four seasons.”

Brockington said he wanted to figure out if the lack of maintenance is a cost issue or because of the city’s hesitation to create a plowed path that leads into Vincent Massey Park’s unplowed pathway networks.

“I would even be happy with an unplowed bridge,” Brockington said. “Just keep the bridge open…for people out there for exercise, cross country skiers and snowshoers.”

Brockington said he plans to bring up the issue during the city’s budget session Dec. 11.

“The importance of active transportation connections like this bridge is [that] it should remain open,” he said.

Serena Hoover, a third-year aerospace engineering student at Carleton University, questioned the purpose of the bridge if it was closed for half the year due to the winter season.

“I don’t really see the point of even having built the bridge,” Hoover said. “You have to go out of your way to get to where you need to go.”

Hoover said she would like to see the city adopt more initiatives and preparation ahead of the winter season.

“[They should do] something similar to what they do with the sidewalks here,” Hoover said. “I feel like it’d be pretty easy to plow and salt it.”

Jonas Letal, a second-year aerospace engineering student at Carleton University, said the closure disrupts his commute. To get to The Revalie, a student housing center near Mooney’s Bay, Letal said crossing the bridge makes his commute half an hour shorter.

“I just jumped over the fence when I had to get to my exam this morning,” Letal said. “With it closed, I would have to travel double the time to get to class.”

Letal said as long as the bridge remained open to make commuting easier, it didn’t matter to him what its condition was.

“It’s just closing it down and not allowing people to cross the river is the issue I have with it.”

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/carleton-university-rideau-river-bridge-closed-winter

[DTcrawler]

What a sick joke. It's one thing to make up excuses about why a refurbished, 100 year old rail bridge can't be winter maintained, but a brand new bridge wasn't built with the consideration of winter maintenance? I hope people continue to hop the fences and that it causes a lot of concerned emails to be sent back and forth amongst bureaucrats at city hall. What an embarrassment...

[lrt's friend]

There are local pedestrian bridges in my neighbourhood that the city does not maintain over winter but don't fence off. They connect to unmaintained walkways as well, but those walkways are used all winter. It is a whole lot safer than the streets with no sidewalks. I don't know what is the difference.

[J.OT13]

That is ridiculous! They'd never close car infra over winter, even though that's far more dangerous.

[zzptichka]

There are literally thousands of places in the city where a person can walk up close to the water, plowed or unplowed, with railing or without, "slip" and fall in the water and die. All around both rivers, the canal, every single bridge, lock, waterfall and lookout. Nobody cares.

These new bridges are probably some of the safest places to be near the river, but lawyers gotta lawyer.