Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[New Brisavoine]

I was thinking about what some of you guys said today, regarding how "cold" is winter indoor in France. I had to spend the day doing some research in a public administration, it was frigid! I did something very un-French, I complained, telling them I was frozen (I know you may think it's very French to complain because Anglo-Saxon medias love to talk about France and strikes, but in fact very few people in France go on strike, it's limited to the usual left-wing public administration circles, but in reality the French never complain, they grumble but keep everything inside, unlike the Americans who will immediately complain if customer service is not right), so I complained. They called a technician, he came with a thermometer (!), and said the temperature in the room was 18.5°C, which was perfectly normal, because they didn't have the right to heat the building above 19 degrees. I said, who fixed that limit?? He said it was the local departmental council!!

This is France. Totally nuts. The country that has the largest amount of carbon-free nuclear electricity in Europe, with record production expected this winter (so much so that we will export it all across Europe), but where "more royalist than the king" (or "Greener than Greta Thunberg" if you prefer) politicians will force public administrations not to heat above 19 degrees to display their green credentials!!

Try to sit all day in a room whose temperature is only 18.5 degrees...

What's the indoor temperature at your workplaces in Canada?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

I'm not a historian of hockey, but if Wikipedia is to be believed, the first ice hockey game was organized by James Creighton (born in NS) a member of the Victoria Skating Club, featuring athletes from McGill university using sticks manufactured in Nova Scotia. The game borrowed heavily from informal pickup games that Creighton played in his Nova Scotia youth.
Doesn't sound like very de souche origins to me.

Well, I specifically didn't say that French Canadians invented hockey, only that it originated in Quebec. As I noted in my other post, such shortcuts when making historic claims are extremely common.

And yes I am aware that Windsor NS also claims to be the birthplace of hockey. Part of my family is Nova Scotian, so I've seen the big sign on Hwy 101 many times.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

I was thinking about what some of you guys said today, regarding how "cold" is winter indoor in France. I had to spend the day doing some research in a public administration, it was frigid! I did something very un-French, I complained, telling them I was frozen (I know you may think it's very French to complain because Anglo-Saxon medias love to talk about France and strikes, but in fact very few people in France go on strike, it's limited to the usual left-wing public administration circles, but in reality the French never complain, they grumble but keep everything inside, unlike the Americans who will immediately complain if customer service is not right), so I complained. They called a technician, he came with a thermometer (!), and said the temperature in the room was 18.5°C, which was perfectly normal, because they didn't have the right to heat the building above 19 degrees. I said, who fixed that limit?? He said it was the local departmental council!!

This is France. Totally nuts. The country that has the largest amount of carbon-free nuclear electricity in Europe, with record production expected this winter (so much so that we will export it all across Europe), but where "more royalist than the king" (or "Greener than Greta Thunberg" if you prefer) politicians will force public administrations not to heat above 19 degrees to display their green credentials!!

Try to sit all day in a room whose temperature is only 18.5 degrees...

What's the indoor temperature at your workplaces in Canada?

I'd wager it's in the 20C to 22C range in modern buildings. Just right for women to find it too chilly and men to find it too warm ....

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

I was thinking about what some of you guys said today, regarding how "cold" is winter indoor in France. I had to spend the day doing some research in a public administration, it was frigid! I did something very un-French, I complained, telling them I was frozen (I know you may think it's very French to complain because Anglo-Saxon medias love to talk about France and strikes, but in fact very few people in France go on strike, it's limited to the usual left-wing public administration circles, but in reality the French never complain, they grumble but keep everything inside, unlike the Americans who will immediately complain if customer service is not right), so I complained. They called a technician, he came with a thermometer (!), and said the temperature in the room was 18.5°C, which was perfectly normal, because they didn't have the right to heat the building above 19 degrees. I said, who fixed that limit?? He said it was the local departmental council!!

This is France. Totally nuts. The country that has the largest amount of carbon-free nuclear electricity in Europe, with record production expected this winter (so much so that we will export it all across Europe), but where "more royalist than the king" (or "Greener than Greta Thunberg" if you prefer) politicians will force public administrations not to heat above 19 degrees to display their green credentials!!

Try to sit all day in a room whose temperature is only 18.5 degrees...

What's the indoor temperature at your workplaces in Canada?

Generally 21-22C. I'm still in my office right now and that is the temperature.

It is currently 8C outside here.

At my house it's generally between 20 and 22 all year round during the day. Maybe 18-19 in the middle of the night in the winter.

[New Brisavoine]

It's beyond me how these employees accept working in such chilly conditions. The lady to whom I complained was like "ah yeah, it's pretty cold in winter here", almost like she was commenting some given that she had no power to change. You can tell they have never complained about the cold in their offices. They just accept passively, as the French often do.

At my home where I work most of the time these days it's fortunately between 22 and 22.5 degrees in winter, because I live in a condominium in a rich neighborhood with old people, so central heating is set at a good temperature. I would hate to live in social housing apartments managed by the city of Paris where temperature is set at 19 degrees...

The Paris city hall has also decreased the temperature of the municipal swimming pools. In Warsaw I've heard their municipal pools have a water temperature of 30 degrees. Here in Paris the crazy and unhinged mayor has decided to lower the water temperature of the municipal swimming pools to 25 degrees since 2022. They are the new Puritans of our time, except their religion is "écologie".

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by OldDartmouthMark

The only time I recall of somebody calling it out was from a Japanese colleague who told me that before he came to Canada he thought Canadians and Americans were the same, but once he became familiar with both countries and had gotten to know people, he said that he almost couldn't believe how different we were. His words, not mine.

I think someone (can't remember if he was American or Canadian) commented that whenever he landed in a Canadian airport, the first thing that shocked him was how quiet and subdued it was compared to the hectic and busy US airports. For him that encapsulated all the difference between the US and Canada. Rat race vs slow provincial life.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Our rates of kids identifying as trans or non-binary are basically the lowest in the country.

Now, this stuff is still present in Quebec, just way way less ubiquitous.

What about fat people. Less numerous in Québec than in ROC?

Today on Twitter there was this shocking stat:



France is the "lean" country of Europe, so I would expect our Québécois cousins to be the same.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

(Keeping in mind that something like 80% of Canadians live within 200 km of the US border.)

The surprising thing is 20% of Canadians live further than 200 km from the US border. Are you sure of that figure? I would have said 95% of Canadians lived 200 km from the US border.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

What about fat people. Less numerous in Québec than in ROC?

Today on Twitter there was this shocking stat:



France is the "lean" country of Europe, so I would expect our Québécois cousins to be the same.

I believe we are tied with BC as the slimmest province in Canada. BC has lots of Asians who tend to be slim.

I think we are also close to being the slimmest place out of all the states and provinces.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

The surprising thing is 20% of Canadians live further than 200 km from the US border. Are you sure of that figure? I would have said 95% of Canadians lived 200 km from the US border.

Ok so according to the CBC it is 90 pc within 160 km.

Main cities outside of the 160 km radius are Edmonton, Calgary and Halifax.

All of the other main cities are within 160 km.

[dleung]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Just an example we don’t have classes in public schools decorated in rainbow flags and other LBGTQ messaging in Quebec, or rainbow crosswalks outside of maybe Le Village in downtown Montreal.

Our rates of kids identifying as trans or non-binary are basically the lowest in the country.

Now, this stuff is still present in Quebec, just way way less ubiquitous.

Trans/non-binary is a youth thing, and Quebec is also among the oldest provinces. Montreal's numbers are close to Toronto's so it's also an urban thing. Provinces that embrace diverse cultures more are also less likely to suppress gender diversity. So many factors, yet you keep bragging about trans numbers like some kind of vindication that Quebec beat wokeness by being nationalist lol

Originally Posted by Acajack

...I consider Quebec to be the most Canadian province in the country.

As such one could almost view Québécois nationalism or even independence as a last-ditch effort to save Canadianity.

lol cringe

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

BC has lots of Asians who tend to be slim.

Yeah, so that doesn't count. It's cheating!

Although I must say when I was at the university in the US I had a roommate who was a FAT Asian guy from Ottawa. He spent his evenings online watching porn.

He would always insist on how NOT COLD was Ottawa in winter. Yeah... right!!

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Ok so according to the CBC it is 90 pc within 160 km.

I really wonder why they use "160 km" as their measuring distance. I really do.

Metrication anyone?

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by dleung

lol cringe

I thought what he said made lots of sense. The Québécois are the original Canadians. It's common knowledge. Their society is also the one that has remained the most "Canadian" in the sense that it's the most distant to US culture. The ROC is half-way between the US and Québec.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

I really wonder why they use "160 km" as their measuring distance. I really do.

Metrication anyone?

100 miles = 160 km

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by dleung

Trans/non-binary is a youth thing, and Quebec is also among the oldest provinces. Montreal's numbers are close to Toronto's so it's also an urban thing. Provinces that embrace diverse cultures more are also less likely to suppress gender diversity. So many factors, yet you keep bragging about trans numbers like some kind of vindication that Quebec beat wokeness by being nationalist lol



lol cringe

The trans people I've met have been agd 60 to 80.

[Acajack]

How Quebecers often see the ROC

Mississauga city council officially condemns Quebec Bill 21 on secularism as xenophobic and racist.

Also Mississauga: the city allows the use of its property for a vigil in memory of so called freedom fighter and Hamas leader Yahya Sinwar. When questioned about it the mayor compared him to Nelson Mandela.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Mississauga city council officially condemns Quebec Bill 21 on secularism as xenophobic and racist. .

Does the Laval city council also officially condemns things that happen in the ROC and do not affect the Québecois whatsoever?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Does the Laval city council also officially condemns things that happen in the ROC and do not affect the Québecois whatsoever?

Of course not. Never.

Note that even this can used against us, as evidence of our alleged insularity!

[AverageMonctonEnjoyr]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Simply being concerned about the future of French and pointing out real statistics and trends makes one an (evil) separatist.

It's quite ironic because I've always said that a strong French language in Quebec and in francophone communities outside of it is a huge plus for the Canadian unity argument. More than one commentator has said that ironically Bill 101 (a Parti Québécois policy) played a big role in the 1995 victory by the Non side because it removed a lot of the linguistic irritants. Now those irritants are coming back in a big way.

I am not sure that Canadian unity won't be seriously comprised if French continues its relative decline.

True though we only ask for self-determination and not isolation