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  #4141  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2024, 10:29 AM
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hollywoodnorth hollywoodnorth is offline
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Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
The office towers at Pacific Centre are all steel frame.
Not sure why the Four Seasons wouldn't also be steel frame.
maybe I misinterpreted what was told to me but there is some sort of structural issue is what I was told. I thought concrete but I guess I was wrong. but I am sure there is some sort of structural issue causing the hold up.

that said what else could it be .... leaving a property like that vacant for what 5+ years seems ..... not logical if it was a smooth renovation to a new client.
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  #4142  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2024, 4:55 PM
jollyburger jollyburger is online now
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Originally Posted by hollywoodnorth View Post
maybe I misinterpreted what was told to me but there is some sort of structural issue is what I was told. I thought concrete but I guess I was wrong. but I am sure there is some sort of structural issue causing the hold up.

that said what else could it be .... leaving a property like that vacant for what 5+ years seems ..... not logical if it was a smooth renovation to a new client.
Mystery solved? File this under the weird department but Google has a search result for a deleted article from October 24, 2024

Quote:
Demolition Robots to take down former Four Seasons hotel ...

constructconnect.com
https://canada.constructconnect.com › Technology
Demolition Robots to take down former Four Seasons hotel tower. Jean Sorensen October 24, 2024. Demolition Robots to take down former Four Seasons hotel ...
Quote:
DEMOLITION FEATURE: In the new year, Cheeseman’s Concrete Removal Ltd. will use remote-controlled demolition robots to take down Vancouver’s former 29-storey Four Seasons Hotel tower to the fourth floor making way for a new tower and hotel renovation.
The ceiling heights and other issues with the layout probably meant it was too much to make it work.

Last edited by jollyburger; Nov 13, 2024 at 7:23 PM.
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  #4143  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2024, 5:02 PM
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Originally Posted by jollyburger View Post
Myster solved? File this under the weird department but Google has a search result for a deleted article from October 24, 2024
Wow, how did that manage to fly under the wire and get buried so fast? Though it would certainly explain what's going on.
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  #4144  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2024, 5:06 PM
jollyburger jollyburger is online now
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Wow, how did that manage to fly under the wire and get buried so fast? Though it would certainly explain what's going on.
I assume the contractor released the news early/without permission and CF wanted to shut it down.
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  #4145  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2024, 5:53 PM
madog222 madog222 is online now
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Great find Jolly!
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  #4146  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2024, 5:57 PM
idunno idunno is offline
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Wow, great find indeed!
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  #4147  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2024, 7:00 PM
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LeftCoaster LeftCoaster is offline
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Looks to me like the owner was looking to understand their options and got an option priced.

The trade who priced it may have gotten a little excited and talked to the media?
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  #4148  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2024, 8:19 PM
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Looks to me like the owner was looking to understand their options and got an option priced.

The trade who priced it may have gotten a little excited and talked to the media?
That's a credible scenario. I wonder if a story will be published anywhere as if the demolition is what is going to happen?
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  #4149  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2024, 8:39 PM
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Great find!
... and I'll bet they can go taller!
(Scotia Tower view shadow, and relaxation of the other view cone?)

Still up on an X post:
https://twitter.com/DCN_Canada/status/1849441849217577375
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  #4150  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2024, 8:58 PM
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You have to wonder how much money CF put into the building before discovering there were issues....
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  #4151  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2024, 9:38 PM
theKB theKB is offline
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You have to wonder how much money CF put into the building before discovering there were issues....
That is a true curiosity, with that said, higher ceilings, larger floor plates for larger rooms (while not losing capacity) and potentially developing a hotel/residence combo would definitely outweigh the costs they already sunk in especially if the residence went to a level you would see in the St Regis or Ritz Carlton in Toronto, where it is more an extension of the property, and I would assume to a certain level would subsidize the operations although with the adjustment in foreign buyer rules and professionals that are below average wages, it may not pencil as well as a Toronto (even though Four Seasons, Ritz Carlton both have residential components in Montreal as well in true "full service" buildings).

I would also assume there could be some opportunities to expand the retail footprint as well within the mall.

With that said, the hotel crunch in Vancouver is insane. For the city to be sold out because of a couple concerts at BC Place and rates higher than other cities on a regular weekend vs other large destinations with large events (there was a comparison of Miami vs Vancouver during F1 weekend) for hotels that really aren't anything great in Vancouver, the capacity needed especially during the summer is urgent with cruise ship influx essentially selling out the city.

Really wish they could have come to a solution with the Four Seasons, outside of the rooms being dated, the restaurant was a great place to go, the service overall was good as well. Would be nice to see the Four Seasons back especially in a similar capacity where they owned the operation.
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  #4152  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2024, 9:43 PM
jollyburger jollyburger is online now
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You have to wonder how much money CF put into the building before discovering there were issues....
Well they still would have done most of the salvage/abatement even if they end up demolishing the building so I doubt it amounted to that much.
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  #4153  
Old Posted Nov 13, 2024, 11:33 PM
officedweller officedweller is offline
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... and if there were structural issues, then they probably would have had to take it down to the frame just to find the issues.
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  #4154  
Old Posted Nov 14, 2024, 4:24 PM
phesto phesto is offline
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Even if there weren't any structural issues, the cost to retrofit the existing building were probably super high. Rebuilding from scratch will give CF a lot more flexibility about which hotel flags they can partner with.
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  #4155  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2024, 12:38 AM
officedweller officedweller is offline
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I wonder if they'll expand the podium vertically for conference and amenity space?
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  #4156  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2024, 1:05 AM
jollyburger jollyburger is online now
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Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
I wonder if they'll expand the podium vertically for conference and amenity space?
I guess impact to the mall/parkade might constrain what they can do. You assume a larger tower would require them to upgrade the foundation down to the parkade through part of the mall. This Appendix from the Apple Store development application has a bunch of plans on which stores/levels it would affect on the site.

I guess there's no space for a second tower if they changed the footprint of the existing building?

https://vancouver.ca/files/cov/701wgeorgiast-appendixf.pdf
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  #4157  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2024, 1:19 AM
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Likewise, they had to reinforce columns under the old Eaton's when Nordstrom and the office above were redeveloped.

I doubt they could site a second tower there, especially with the new Apple store,
although I could see a short midrise above the Harry Rosen corner (like the villa across the courtyard at Fairmont Pacific Rim)
although that's above the ballroom.

If they boot Harry Rosen into the Nordstrom space temporarily they would have practically that entire side of the upper mall vacated for construction.
If CF has a strong lease (which I don't doubt), they may have the right to relocate tenants.
The lower mall has a wide variety of tenants and would be logistically more difficult to relocate.

==> Maybe the Nordstrom space has not been leased out because it will become swing space (temporary space) for retail tenants displaced by hotel construction.
(i.e. set up demising walls around a central escalator atrium for 2 or 3 levels, much like the department store concession trend.)

These are the OLD plans but show the existing interior podium floorplans.


https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/cf-pacific-centre-new-hotel-design-four-seasons-tower

Last edited by officedweller; Nov 15, 2024 at 1:36 AM.
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  #4158  
Old Posted Nov 15, 2024, 5:54 PM
s211 s211 is offline
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Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
Likewise, they had to reinforce columns under the old Eaton's when Nordstrom and the office above were redeveloped.
Partially off-topic, but I seem to recall that the additional reinforcement was over-built to accommodate additional capacity.
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  #4159  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2024, 12:00 AM
jollyburger jollyburger is online now
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Originally Posted by LeftCoaster View Post
Yep it's a good construction team. It's always tough working in an active mall/parking lot and they are doing a great job so far.

As for the reason, well lets just call it future proofing. Some of it is needed for changes to the building due to code/new uses however there is a bit of unused density on the site...
Here's the reference to future proofing for the unused density.
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  #4160  
Old Posted Nov 16, 2024, 3:48 AM
officedweller officedweller is offline
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Originally Posted by officedweller View Post
Now removed as well.
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