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  #10701  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2024, 10:08 PM
New Brisavoine New Brisavoine is offline
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
J'avais loupé cette question. C'est une journée qui est fertile en sujets de discussion.

Trump tends to be very isolationist so I think there is a good chance that he'd stay out of whatever internal debates we'd have in Canada. He is very unpopular in Quebec so not sure that even a Pierre Poilievre government that might be somewhat pro-Trump would see the usefulness of bringing him on board to help the Non side. In 1995, the Non side did appeal to Bill Clinton who made a couple of pro-Canada and pro-federalism speeches, but he was quite popular in Quebec.

As for Quebecers being afraid of the big bad US, well Canada and ROCers in general have been trying to tell us for decades that the real threat is the US, not Anglophone Canadians. And that we have this in common - Quebec and the ROC vs the US.

Much to the frustration of Anglo-Canadians, Quebecers have always rejected this idea and see Anglo-Canadians and Anglo-Canada as their biggest nemesis and threat.

Under the principle that sure the US is a big dangerous grizzly bear roaming outside the house, but Anglo-Canada is a smaller but still dangerous black bear that is actually inside the house.

This perception in Quebec has never changed no matter who is in power in Washington.

Anecdotally, it's worth mentioning for example that in terms of respecting French as the language of Quebec, American-owned businesses aren't necessarily worse than Canadian-owned businesses (or even businesses owned by Anglo-Quebecers) and are sometimes even better.

You should see how US chains like Walmart and Home Depot operate entirely in French in Quebec, from signage and service to the language of work for staff. It's even the case in western parts of Montreal.
^^Which doesn't answer... the original question.

So, Trump victory making Québec independence more likely or less likely?

As for this:
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Anecdotally, it's worth mentioning for example that in terms of respecting French as the language of Quebec, American-owned businesses aren't necessarily worse than Canadian-owned businesses (or even businesses owned by Anglo-Quebecers) and are sometimes even better.

You should see how US chains like Walmart and Home Depot operate entirely in French in Quebec, from signage and service to the language of work for staff. It's even the case in western parts of Montreal.
Yeah, I've noticed that in France too. Big US companies, in particular the Gafa, tend to respect local languages a lot, so in our case dutifully having everything available in French. I guess it's just a very business mentality, you speak the client's language. Oftentimes they can even be "more royalist than the king" and be "super-French" in terms of language use (such as Google maps writing all the names of European cities in French, even the most obscure ones, as I already pointed out before).

French companies are the worst in terms of French language. They will very often use English as a gimmick. For example in France the word "by" has almost entirely replaced "par" in commercial speak. As in : "Le livret épargne by La Poste". They also over-abuse "my" for internet services. The name of internet platforms is usually "my + name of the company". For example online banking by Crédit Agricole is "MyCréditAgricole", etc.

This drives me nuts!! US companies, on the other hand, will be much more respectful of French in general, and not use those stupid English terms (French companies assume that we're going to find them "trendy" if they use English words or phrases).
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  #10702  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2024, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
^^Which doesn't answer... the original question.

So, Trump victory making Québec independence more likely or less likely?

.
Yeah but I gave lots of good stuff!

Short answer: probably little to no effect.
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  #10703  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2024, 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted by New Brisavoine View Post
^^Which doesn't answer... the original question.

So, Trump victory making Québec independence more likely or less likely?

As for this:

Yeah, I've noticed that in France too. Big US companies, in particular the Gafa, tend to respect local languages a lot, so in our case dutifully having everything available in French. I guess it's just a very business mentality, you speak the client's language. Oftentimes they can even be "more royalist than the king" and be "super-French" in terms of language use (such as Google maps writing all the names of European cities in French, even the most obscure ones, as I already pointed out before).

French companies are the worst in terms of French language. They will very often use English as a gimmick. For example in France the word "by" has almost entirely replaced "par" in commercial speak. As in : "Le livret épargne by La Poste". They also over-abuse "my" for internet services. The name of internet platforms is usually "my + name of the company". For example online banking by Crédit Agricole is "MyCréditAgricole", etc.

This drives me nuts!! US companies, on the other hand, will be much more respectful of French in general, and not use those stupid English terms (French companies assume that we're going to find them "trendy" if they use English words or phrases).
More royalist than the King = plus catholique que le pape
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  #10704  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2024, 10:36 PM
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More royalist than the King = plus catholique que le pape
And in English, more Catholic than the Pope.
     
     
  #10705  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2024, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
Short answer: probably little to no effect.
The one scenario in which it would have an effect would be if some of the most anti-Trump areas of the U.S. start to be serious about seceding:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Independence_movement_in_Puerto_Rico (say, if they dislike getting called a floating island of garbage, for example)

Similarly, an unpopular and toxic government in Madrid or London resulting in Catalan or Scottish independence would actually help Quebec's PQ greatly. So, if the Spaniards somehow elect a total idiot, especially an idiot who's hated in Catalonia, then yes, that would help Quebec's sovereigntists.
     
     
  #10706  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2024, 10:49 PM
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I can't see Puerto Rico or any other part of the US seceding honestly.

Catalan or Scottish independence would of course help Québec's independence prospects, but it's not going to happen before the 3rd referendum.
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  #10707  
Old Posted Nov 6, 2024, 10:51 PM
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plus catholique que le pape
Never used in France.
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  #10708  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2024, 1:54 PM
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Catalan or Scottish independence would of course help Québec's independence prospects, but it's not going to happen before the 3rd referendum.
The Catalan, Scottish and Quebec independence movements are all kind of psychologically linked in a way. Anything that happens with one them has a tendency to rub off a little on the others.

I was in Barcelona in 1994 and these were the days just before the Internet so I was a bit cut off from the news back home.

So imagine my surprise going down onto the streets the morning of September 13 and seeing Jacques Parizeau's face smiling at me from the front page of every single newspaper in every kiosk on the sidewalk!
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  #10709  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2024, 2:02 PM
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I can't see Puerto Rico or any other part of the US seceding honestly.
Puerto Rican independence also seems pretty unlikely to me given their economic and financial situation and dependence, but would it even be true "secession" in their case? They're not even a state.
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  #10710  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2024, 2:03 PM
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Puerto Rican independence also seems pretty unlikely to me given their economic and financial situation and dependence, but would it even be true "secession" in their case? They're not even a state.
Neither is Washington D.C., but I think it would still count as true secession.
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  #10711  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2024, 2:11 PM
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Neither is Washington D.C., but I think it would still count as true secession.
I think it's more complicated than that.

Washington DC and Puerto Rico don't have quite the same status.

DC is considered to be part of the "core United States". Puerto Rico is not.

For example, if you are born in Puerto Rico you are automatically a US citizen.

You can run for President, *provided* you have lived in the US for 14 years.

Living in Puerto Rico or any other territory doesn't count as "living in the US" towards those 14 years.

Living in DC does.

And of course there is the small matter of DC being the capital of the country.
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  #10712  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2024, 5:18 PM
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Hawaii wasn't even a state when Japan attacked in 1941. The Americans took it as an attack on their home soil.
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  #10713  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2024, 5:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I think it's more complicated than that.

Washington DC and Puerto Rico don't have quite the same status.

DC is considered to be part of the "core United States". Puerto Rico is not.

For example, if you are born in Puerto Rico you are automatically a US citizen.

You can run for President, *provided* you have lived in the US for 14 years.

Living in Puerto Rico or any other territory doesn't count as "living in the US" towards those 14 years.

Living in DC does.

And of course there is the small matter of DC being the capital of the country.
In US parlance, this distinction is between incorporated territory and unincorporated territory. All of the US outside the 50 states & DC is part of the latter. Meaning it's not legally part of the United States of America, but is under American sovereignty. It's analogous to how the UK treats its overseas territories, or how Denmark treats Greenland & the Faroe Islands. (By contrast to France, which makes no such distinction and treats its overseas territories as prat of France).
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  #10714  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2024, 5:30 PM
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By the way, latest IMF data published last month.

GPP in 2024 (in US dollars at market exchange rates):
- Israel: 528
- Norway: 504
- Vietnam: 468
- Malaysia: 440
- Québec: 436
- Colombia: 417
- Denmark: 412
- South Africa: 403
- Czech Republic: 343
- Chile: 329
- Finland: 306
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  #10715  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2024, 8:21 PM
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In US parlance, this distinction is between incorporated territory and unincorporated territory. All of the US outside the 50 states & DC is part of the latter. Meaning it's not legally part of the United States of America, but is under American sovereignty. It's analogous to how the UK treats its overseas territories, or how Denmark treats Greenland & the Faroe Islands. (By contrast to France, which makes no such distinction and treats its overseas territories as prat of France).
France is quite complex and has various forms of status for its overseas territories.

Some of them are "fully France", in the same way that Paris or Bordeaux are France. Martinique and Guadeloupe have this status. So does La Réunion in the Indian Ocean, and also French Guiana in South America. They would be similar to how Hawaii is a full US state.

St-Pierre-et-Miquelon, off the coast of Newfoundland, does not have this status.

There are quite a few territories all over the world that are under French authority but aren't fully part of France, like overseas départements I first mentioned are.
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  #10716  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2024, 8:37 PM
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All of them are part of the French Republic. But not all of them are part of the EU.

St Pierre and Miquelon is far more integrated with France than Puerto Rico with the US. They can vote in all French (and European!) elections, they have representatives in the French parliament, the French parliament passes laws that apply in St Pierre and Miquelon, the French government sends a prefect to St Pierre and Miquelon in charge of enforcing the French government's decisions there, all their school teachers are French public servants paid by France, their school curriculum is the same as in France, etc. etc. In fact they have less autonomy than a US state or a Canadian province.

The arrival of the prefect in St Pierre and Miquelon (they even talk about Moncton in the video ):

Video Link
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  #10717  
Old Posted Nov 7, 2024, 9:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
The Catalan, Scottish and Quebec independence movements are all kind of psychologically linked in a way. Anything that happens with one them has a tendency to rub off a little on the others.

I was in Barcelona in 1994 and these were the days just before the Internet so I was a bit cut off from the news back home.

So imagine my surprise going down onto the streets the morning of September 13 and seeing Jacques Parizeau's face smiling at me from the front page of every single newspaper in every kiosk on the sidewalk!
Whoa, wild!
     
     
  #10718  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2024, 1:54 PM
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Whoa, wild!
I also had people I engaged in conversations with, when they learned who I was and where I was from (ie a native French speaker from Canada) telling me enthusiastically that my people would soon have its independence or "be free".

I generally didn't have time to get into the details of my political views, or that I wasn't actually from Quebec and hadn't ever lived there at that point.
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  #10719  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2024, 3:25 PM
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Iron Maiden singer Bruce Dickinson last week telling a large Montreal crowd they aren't French, that they're Québécois, and to stand up for themselves. In pretty good French I must say.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KURV8W6fHqw
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  #10720  
Old Posted Nov 8, 2024, 3:42 PM
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Hawaii wasn't even a state when Japan attacked in 1941. The Americans took it as an attack on their home soil.
Japan attacked the US Pacific Fleet. Had they "just" bombed Honolulu and left the US Navy out of it the response may have been different. Such an attack on a major US military base anywhere would be considered an act of war.
     
     
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