Canadian Skyline Thread III

[Wigs]

In Niagara, despite access to 2 Great Lakes, I always attributed high pool ownership to longer summers than most of Canada, and the high paying industrial tax base that once existed.
So many I grew up with, in 2 parent (double income) families, either had a pool, boat, or cottage (usually passed down thru generations).

The trifecta was a family that had all 3. Good paying factory /unionized jobs and relatively inexpensive housing allowed for most families with both parents working to build a great life

Pre Google maps/Earth, my friend's father that was a Vietnam Vet/A-6 Intruder pilot took me, my father, my friend for flights in a rented Cessna or Cherokee plane and it was then I realized how many swimming pools there were.

Here's my old neighborhood (using Google Earth)


Across the border in Buffalo/Western NY, pool ownership is also high. We used to get inundated with pools and spa commercials from Buffalo TV channels

[GreaterMontréal]

Heated pools are also very popular in Quebec, electricity is inexpensive and you can extend the swimming season by at least 6 weeks. I had a friend that heated its pool as high as a spa, 95-100F, all the way till early October.

[harls]

Originally Posted by GreaterMontréal

Heated pools are also very popular in Quebec, electricity is inexpensive and you can extend the swimming season by at least 6 weeks. I had a friend that heated its pool as high as a spa, 95-100F, all the way till early October.

I think the pools in Quebec thing also has a lot to do with people not really leaving home for the summer months, so they invest in vacationing 'chez nous'.

(sorry for derailing this thread further.. back to skylines!)

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by Gresto

Fascinating. I would never have imagined that.

When you drive to Quebec from the Maritimes, it's hard not to notice the plethora of swimming pool sales, installation, and servicing companies dotting the highway. Initially, I thought it was due to being in a highly industrialized region with tons of good paying jobs but it's really a Quebec phenomenon as the high prevalence of pools doesn't carry over into southern Ontario.

The explanations offered above are spot on imo.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Gresto

Fascinating. I would never have imagined that. With so many lakes in Quebec, why the need for pools?

I don't know about other provinces, but in Ontario, we have to pay for our water usage. In Quebec, residents can use as much water as they want for free (beyond water and sewer fixed charges, possibly a small pool tax, but I imagine a lot of people don't claim it).

[Acajack]

Having friends and family over every weekend is also a (somewhat) big(ger) deal in Quebec, and in the summer having a pool for that makes it very enjoyable.

[Hawrylyshyn]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I don't know about other provinces, but in Ontario, we have to pay for our water usage. In Quebec, residents can use as much water as they want for free (beyond water and sewer fixed charges, possibly a small pool tax, but I imagine a lot of people don't claim it).

Water is free in Quebec?!

[suburbanite]

Southern Ontario always had more of a cottage culture. People don't really have any qualms about driving ~3 hours from the GTA to Muskoka, the Kawarthas, Georgian Bay, etc. In the early 2000s you could still get a humble cottage on a nice lake for less than $100,000, while an inground pool was probably starting around $25k, and having both doesn't make sense for 95% of people. Anglo Canadians like owning real estate.

I remember trying to find the stats in the past and I seem to recall Quebec was ranked behind only Florida and Arizona in terms of pools per capita. I have this photo saved from last time this discussion came up which I'm pretty sure is right near Acajack's neighbourhood.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by suburbanite

Southern Ontario always had more of a cottage culture. People don't really have any qualms about driving ~3 hours from the GTA to Muskoka, the Kawarthas, Georgian Bay, etc. In the early 2000s you could still get a humble cottage on a nice lake for less than $100,000, while an inground pool was probably starting around $25k, and having both doesn't make sense for 95% of people. Anglo Canadians like owning real estate.

I remember trying to find the stats in the past and I seem to recall Quebec was ranked behind only Florida and Arizona in terms of pools per capita. I have this photo saved from last time this discussion came up which I'm pretty sure is right near Acajack's neighbourhood.

Yes, that's not too far from my place. My street is very similar.

[Acajack]

It's generally a flat rate on your property taxes. I haven't checked in a while but it's in the range of 150-200 dollars a year. Municipalities with residential water meters that charge you by use are almost non-existent. Even the larger cities don't have them. Even Montreal.

There is a move towards meters but they're starting with industrial and commercial users.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Hawrylyshyn

Water is free in Quebec?!

See below.

Originally Posted by Acajack

It's generally a flat rate on your property taxes. I haven't checked in a while but it's in the range of 150-200 dollars a year. Municipalities with residential water meters that charge you by use are almost non-existent. Even the larger cities don't have them. Even Montreal.

There is a move towards meters but they're starting with industrial and commercial users.

So yeah, no monthly bill. I live in Ottawa and it's around $100 every two months for water, with 80% of that being fixed charges.

I don't know about the rest of Quebec, but Gatineau has frequent boil water advisories, some areas with yellow of brown water for much of the year. They really need to move to a model similar to Ottawa (maybe not quite as expensive) so they can upgrade the infrastructure.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

See below.



So yeah, no monthly bill. I live in Ottawa and it's around $100 every two months for water, with 80% of that being fixed charges.

I don't know about the rest of Quebec, but Gatineau has frequent boil water advisories, some areas with yellow of brown water for much of the year. They really need to move to a model similar to Ottawa (maybe not quite as expensive) so they can upgrade the infrastructure.

I wouldn't say brown or yellow water is common in Gatineau at all but yes we do have precautionary boil water advisories from time to time. (Generally focused on small areas.) We also have lawn watering restrictions. I can only water with a sprinkler on odd numbered days from 3 to 5 am four days a week.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I wouldn't say brown or yellow water is common in Gatineau at all but yes we do have precautionary boil water advisories from time to time. (Generally focused on small areas.) We also have lawn watering restrictions. I can only water with a sprinkler on odd numbered days from 3 to 5 am four days a week.

I have friends who live near where we grew up with yellow or brown water pretty frequently, at least up until last year. Haven't heard an update since. Can't speak for the rest of Gatineau.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

I have friends who live near where we grew up with yellow or brown water pretty frequently, at least up until last year. Haven't heard an update since. Can't speak for the rest of Gatineau.

I've never had it and I've lived here for over two decades.

[WhipperSnapper]

lots of those yards and pools are tiny. It won't add much to the water bill. I think we can chalk it up to culture. There is pool culture in Toronto including among those that can afford and have the space for a big pool. They go to the shitty community pool with the failing heating system when they aren't heading to the cottage.

Finding a new pool filter in Toronto during covid was an impossible task. An above ground pool was almost an equally impossible task.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

So yeah, no monthly bill. I live in Ottawa and it's around $100 every two months for water, with 80% of that being fixed charges.

Interesting. Very different from the City of Toronto! We pay $4.75 per cubic meter (1,000 litres). My last water bill was 67.5m3 X 4.75 = ~ $322 for 4 months. I don't know how much you consume, but if 80% of those are fixed costs, then, yeah, I think the water bill is pretty steep over here.

I like comparing these little cost of living differences between places. They really vary municipality by municipality, and I feel like these are never really reported unless you ask or do your own research. I'm talking about things like property taxes, water/sewer/garbage fees, home insurance, etc. They really add up, and they can be vastly different between two places that, on the surface, seem fundamentally the same.

[MolsonExport]

My water bill is usually $200/month here in London.

You pay more...just because. No reasons, really. Much of the bill is fixed.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Interesting. Very different from the City of Toronto! We pay $4.75 per cubic meter (1,000 litres). My last water bill was 67.5m3 X 4.75 = ~ $322 for 4 months. I don't know how much you consume, but if 80% of those are fixed costs, then, yeah, I think the water bill is pretty steep over here.

I like comparing these little cost of living differences between places. They really vary municipality by municipality, and I feel like these are never really reported unless you ask or do your own research. I'm talking about things like property taxes, water/sewer/garbage fees, home insurance, etc. They really add up, and they can be vastly different between two places that, on the surface, seem fundamentally the same.

I'm this close to starting a water bill thread.

Our last water bill (two months), we had $80 in fixed charges and $20 for usage. We used 12 cubic meters (6 per month). We were just us two at the time.

Ottawa has a four tier system for water usage per month (combined water and wastewater):

0-6 cubic meters: $1.73 per
7-25cubic meters: $3.54 per
26-180 cubic meters: $3.89 per
180+ cubic meters: $4.36 per

Relativly cheap in Ottawa, Quebec notwithstanding. I don't remember hearing of any discolored water or boil advisories in Ottawa as long as I've been here (knock on wood), so despite all of the City's flaws, they at least maintain an excellent water and sewer system (with a new combined sewage tunnel dramatically reducing raw sewage flowing into the river, though not fully during more and more frequent record rainfalls). Unless you're filling an inground swimming pool, or have a huge family, it would be hard to get to the fourth tier, let alone the fourth tier.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper

Finding a new pool filter in Toronto during covid was an impossible task. An above ground pool was almost an equally impossible task.

The retirement house my folks bought months before Covid (and the crazy real estate market peak) has a large 20'x40' inground pool installed decades ago by original owners.

Their next door neighbour, also on a double wide lot, had an older above ground pool that was degrading. Their neighbour's wife wanted an inground pool but every quote they got in 2023 for a basic 16'x32' inground pool was between $75k-$100k!
Suffice it to say they instead installed a new larger above ground pool (w modern dark liner) and installed a nice deck attached to it and a nice extended concrete patio coming from the house to the pool.

Crazy that inground pools have become so unaffordable to double income families. According to Bank of Canada's inflation calculator the cost of the inground pool my folks put in at a previous house should only cost ~$39,000 today. Not $100,000+

[Gresto]

Interesting discussion about pools and their prevalence in different provinces. I would only want a pool if it were indoors (to be used only in the winter), but the cost to maintain one must be astronomical, and it just seems impossibly decadent to have a pool inside one's house. I'm sure many of the McMansions in my neighbourhood have indoor pools.