OC Transpo

[DarthVader_1961]

OC Transport cannot keep current bus stops and shelters clean never mind actually installing new shelters

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by DarthVader_1961

OC Transport cannot keep current bus stops and shelters clean never mind actually installing new shelters

That's not a good enough excuse for me.

[ponyboycurtis]

Originally Posted by DarthVader_1961

OC Transport cannot keep current bus stops and shelters clean never mind actually installing new shelters

I'd like to see the door pins reinstalled along the shelters on the SE Transitway.

I guess it really isn't a pin but a small loop tapped into the concrete base and a short chain on the door so you can leave all the doors open in the summer. Seems like in the last couple years most of them have rusted away. I'm sure a small crew could bang out the entire set of shelters before lunch. I love the design of the shelters but they end up as sweat boxes in the summer with the doors closed.

Note to self.. Email my councillor in the spring. Should be a simple request.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by ponyboycurtis

I'd like to see the door pins reinstalled along the shelters on the SE Transitway.

I guess it really isn't a pin but a small loop tapped into the concrete base and a short chain on the door so you can leave all the doors open in the summer. Seems like in the last couple years most of them have rusted away. I'm sure a small crew could bang out the entire set of shelters before lunch. I love the design of the shelters but they end up as sweat boxes in the summer with the doors closed.

Note to self.. Email my councillor in the spring. Should be a simple request.

Note to yourself: Email councillor now.

And yeah, our transit shelters are just so bad for our annual weather cycle.

[lrt's friend]

I said I would test out our current airport transit service. The results are shocking. There was a cascading delay from the Line 1 service cut. What is worse is that the cascading delay was going to be worse if I was going home, adding 30 minutes for a total trip time of 90 minutes. I have decided to walk as transit delays have become ridiculous. No coordination of transfers at South Keys/Greenboro.

My experiment

Westin Hotel lobby - 12 Noon
Rideau Station - 12:04
Line 1 departure - 12:12
Hurdman Station arrival - 12:19
Route 97 departure - 12:34
South Keys - 12:47
Airport arrival - 12:59
Departure level - 1:02

There was a total of 2 airline passengers on my bus, one incoming on the next bus, and one heading into the city.

No wonder!

I have observed this before that Routes 97 and 98 run in tandem on the southeast Transitway. Why? To piss off riders that have to wait longer than necessary. How long was the airport service prior to Line 1? 35 or 40 minutes?

The decline in transit service is terrible and that is without cancelled trips.

We wonder why ridership is slow to recover.

OC should be analysing trip times especially when proposing further changes. Adding 5 minutes here and there will cascade into something much worse as my experiment demonstrated. Only the desperate will accept a 90 minute trip time anywhere.

I will be writing my city councillor.

End of rant.

[lrt's friend]

I will add another comment. The most effective part of my trips was the Southeast Transitway. It took only 10 minutes from Greenboro to Hurdman, 13 minutes on return when we were stuck behind a full Route 98. Compare that with the proposed 17 minutes between Greenboro and Bayview . It probably would have been cheaper and faster if Line 2 was a busway.

[eltodesukane]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

... cheaper and faster if Line 2 was a busway.

A busway going both way will always run better a train on single track.

[lrt's friend]

How do you attract people to transit without reliability and convenient transfers?

I had an appointment this morning adjacent to the Civic Hospital. I thought with such high parking rates, I would attempt to use transit. My ingoing bus was scheduled to arrive at 9:13 but didn't arrive until 9:22. When we arrived at South Keys, it was clear that the main connecting buses had just departed. The next bus sign said 22 and 46 minutes for Route 2 and 25 and 40 minutes for Route 98. Route 97 was a little better at 15 and 30 minutes. I began to panic. I could not go back home and drive. There were a lot of other anomalies in other s.chedules. A Route 2 did show up, never appearing on the next bus screen. Also, when I boarded, the Presto reader was not working. Does this impact transit revenue. When I arrived at Preston and Carling, it was a wind tunnel between the two towers and bus stop across the street does not serve Route 85. So much for making transfers convenient.

I decided to walk because I didn't trust the schedule. Buses did pass me to be fair. My trip time door to door was 1 hour 15 minutes, and 10 minutes before my appointment, but if the schedule had matched the screen at South Keys, I would likely been late.

My return trip was worse. As it turned, I need 1 hour to get back to South Keys, missing my connection. In the end, l walked one leg of the trip, not trusting OC frequent service. The Greenboro next bus screen revealed more schedule anomalies.

We wonder why ridership does not rebound. Unless schedules are more reliable and transfers work, who is going to use the service?

I also noted another problem. How bus stop locations do not facilitate transfers. Why not make people walk a couple blocks at a major intersection, in this case Bank and Walkley, a place I had transfered daily for years but now two convenient bus stops have been removed. The good old days when transit worked

[Uhuniau]

What is even going on with the total BS that is the supposed real-time data of late?

Was this problem not supposedly resolved?

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

What is even going on with the total BS that is the supposed real-time data of late?

Was this problem not supposedly resolved?

To me this is the lowest hanging fruit for improving transit. At least if there was accurate information about where buses are and where they are going people could adapt their plans.

[lrt's friend]

The next bus info is unreliable. When I walked across Greenboro Station yesterday, the info for Route 99 substantially changed from the station entrance to the southbound bus platform. What do you believe? I saw this with my own route the last time when it showed a wait time of over 30 minutes then a bus came as per the normal schedule. The screens are worse than useless if the info is inaccurate, often very inaccurate.

[lrt's friend]

The city budget announces a 5 percent fare increase, 8 per cent increase in the property tax transit levy and no further service cuts.

[VANRIDERFAN]

My latest adventure:

Checked a transit app - 66 will depart Tunney's Pasture at 0701 and arrive at NDHQ Carling at 0730;
Arrive at Tunney's by 0650;
Check the big board in the shelter - 66 is 11 minutes from arrival;
0702 - No bus, so I go into the shelter and now the big board says 45 minutes until the 66 arrives;
Luckily the 57 arrives at 0710 and the driver informs me that there is a stop at Moodie Station;
Dropped off at the traffic hellscape that is Moodie station;
Cross Moodie drive and start to walk towards Carling Campus;
No sidewalk on Moodie so I'm on the shoulder of a very busy road;
35 minute walk (at a brisk pace) from Moodie to the gates at NDHQ. Not bad of a walk but it was a blustery day.

When the LRT is operational, Moodie Station will still be 35 to 40 minutes away by foot. Not many will take this in the winter or spring (especially if they don't plow the trail). So I guess they will have shuttle buses, which kind of defeats the purpose of the LRT out there. If there is a Phase 3, will they consider diverting the LRT towards Carling Campus?

This morning as I sat on my bike waiting at the light by Carling Campus there was a line up of cars from the parking lots all the way down Moodie to the Corkstown Road Lights. I only counted one car that had more than one person. When CJOC moves from Startop there will be over 10k people working there.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

The next bus info is unreliable. When I walked across Greenboro Station yesterday, the info for Route 99 substantially changed from the station entrance to the southbound bus platform. What do you believe? I saw this with my own route the last time when it showed a wait time of over 30 minutes then a bus came as per the normal schedule. The screens are worse than useless if the info is inaccurate, often very inaccurate.

Like, it was one thing when "real-time" data would tell you that a bus is coming in 5 minutes when it's actually coming in 9 minutes or not at all.

It's another thing entirely in this upside-down universe where the data tells you the bus isn't coming - or at least fails to tell you that it is coming - when in fact the bus is coming.

YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE TO GUESS. You really shouldn't.

[ponyboycurtis]

I don't want to burn it... but if you look at the top of your browser...

It currently says

OC Transpo.. Page 404

That is all

[TransitZilla]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

Like, it was one thing when "real-time" data would tell you that a bus is coming in 5 minutes when it's actually coming in 9 minutes or not at all.

It's another thing entirely in this upside-down universe where the data tells you the bus isn't coming - or at least fails to tell you that it is coming - when in fact the bus is coming.

YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE TO GUESS. You really shouldn't.

Can you give an example? We know the real-time data isn't perfect, but we're working hard to improve it. The vendor has already fixed many bugs based on issued that we've reported but there's always more to do.

[ponyboycurtis]

BUT WAIT!!! THERES MORE

https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/oc-transpo-scr...iors-passes-120-in-2025-budget-1.7108958

Can we just riot like the French please? my furnace is broken RN so I can jail for a bit.

[rocketphish]

Doug Ford needs to step up to fix Ottawa's public transit mess
Funding more 'transit constables' to crack down on fare cheats is hardly Ottawa's top priority, Premier.

Mohammed Adam, Ottawa Citizen
Published Nov 14, 2024 • Last updated 45 minutes ago • 3 minute read

Premier Doug Ford was in Ottawa last week, and if you thought he was in town to answer our call for transit funding, you were not alone in being disappointed. Ford spoke on a lot of things, and repeated a previous funding announcement, but left out what the city desperately needs: money to sustain our beleaguered OC Transpo. (How desperately we need it was reflected in the city budget this week, containing both transit and tax hikes.)

During a “fireside chat” with Mayor Mark Sutcliffe at an Economic Club of Canada luncheon, Ford announced $48 million over three years for various security initiatives, including more transit constables. He also promised $40 million for the city’s emergency shelters.

One headline in the Citizen said, “Province provides money for transit, social services” and I thought, “Great; finally, Ford has heard us” — only to read the small print and find there was no new money for OC Transpo as such, just for those constables.

Here we are, with OC Transpo drowning in red ink, and our premier comes to town and offers money for transit police. Yes, constables to go after people who evade fares — because that is our greatest need, apparently. “The new funding I announced … and our ongoing collaboration with Ottawa (is) a clear demonstration of our government’s commitment to Ottawa’s success,” Ford said.

Ford didn’t have to make any funding announcement at all, or pretend to be offering the city new money. He was in town to address the Economic Club and many of the issues had broader provincial or national implications, such as the impact of the U.S. election on trade. He was on a different mission, and it would be understandable if he stuck to the script. But instead, he chose to make an announcement on “new funding,” that was really old news. The $88 million Ford announced is not new; it is part of the three-year $543-million “new deal” for the city he laid out in March. Ford is merely regurgitating that announcement.

It’s a trick politicians use regularly to garner headlines. Even if you say that $88 million for social services and security — including a beefed-up police presence in the ByWard Market — is money we should be grateful for, it is not central to Sutcliffe’s “fairness for Ottawa” campaign.

The city has a $25-million transit budget deficit this year, which will balloon to $120 million next year. On top of that, LRT has become an albatross around our necks, not only because of rising costs of construction, but associated operating costs that, under current financial circumstances, we cannot handle.

Amidst all this, our share of transit funding from the province gets smaller and smaller, making our transit future very bleak. A recent report by the Ontario Financial Accountability Office shows that Ottawa’s per-resident subsidy, which was $59.61 in 2022/23, will shrink to $31.91 next year. In contrast, Toronto per person subsidies will rise to $196.49 in 2024/25, from $191 in 2022/23.

There is a real imbalance in transit funding, which contributes to the problems Ottawa continues to have. Sutcliffe had warned the deficit could lead to higher property taxes, service cuts or big fare increases and the draft city budget reflects this. That is our big problem, the one we want the premier to fix, not the need for more transit constables.

Nor do we need deficit drama every year, going cap-in-hand to the province begging for money. The problem facing OC Transpo and transit companies around the country is structural, and what we need is significant and sustained operating funding that allows ridership to grow to pre-COVID levels, and hopefully, a return to viability.

Ford has constantly called on the federal government to pay more for transit in Ottawa, and he had the same message last week. But he cannot be asking the feds to do more when he is doing less on transit funds. Besides, operational funding is a provincial responsibility; Ford must not shirk it.

We hope Sutcliffe is right when he says the premier understands Ottawa’s precarious situation. So far, he hasn’t shown it.

Mohammed Adam is an Ottawa journalist and commentator. Reach him at [email protected]

https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/adam-doug-ford-ottawa-public-transit-mess

[zzptichka]

Just shut down OC Transpo and give everyone $200. Boom mess cleared.

[Richard Eade]

I feel that OC Transpo would get more benefit from looking for change behind the couch cushions in the staff lounges, than forcing 11- and 12-year-olds to pay $2 per ride (from a PRESTO card e-purse).

Starting July 1, 2023, OC Transpo moved to match the other major transit agencies in the country and give free rides to all customers aged 12-years and under. Previously, OC Transpo offered free rides to those 7-years and under when accompanied by a fare-paying adult.

The big push was that all other PRESTO-using transit agencies had switched to the 12-and-under limit, including the TTC, Durham, Oakville, Mississauga, Burlington, Niagara Region, Hamilton, Sudbury, North Bay, and even GO. Ottawa was the last to make the switch. Either a child (I’m going to refer to anyone aged 12-years and under as a ‘Child’) could simply closely follow a parent through the Accessible Gate, or use a PRESTO card that has been set with a ‘Child’ designation to open any fare gate.

During the 2023 budget debate, it was revealed that the total annual reduction in fare revenue for allowing children aged 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12 ride the buses, trains, and Para Transpo for free was $174,000. Up until July 1, 2023, children aged 8-years to 12-years, inclusive, were paying $1.85 (on a card) or $1.90 (cash) for a single ride. For a monthly pass, they were included in the Youth category (ages 8-years to 19-years, inclusive) and charged $96.75. (I can’t imagine that many used the pass, since it would require 27 or more days of travel to be cheaper than single fares paid on a card.)

Since children were free, the Family Pass (a Day-Pass which permitted up to 2 adults and up to 3 children under 13-years-old unlimited travel until 03:00) was converted to the 2-for-1 Pass, which allowed two customers (aged 13-years-old or older) unlimited travel on the system until 03:00, for the cost of a single Day-Pass. I wonder if the 2-for-1 Pass will revert to a Family Pass?

So now, OC Transpo will once again be the outlier, charging a $2 fare to children who are 11 and 12. (I assume that since the notice says $2 if paid by card, the cash fare will be $2.05.) These 11- and 12-year-olds will become the Youth category, since anyone 13 and older will now have to pay the full adult fare. For OC Transpo, a 13-year-old is now an Adult.

STO does not charge children 12 and under. What happens when they transfer onto an OC Transpo vehicle?

I understand that OC Transpo needs to cover their costs – and that the City does not feel that public transit is important enough to cover more of the cost. The changes that were announced may be needed, but they do not make the fare structure any easier or fairer. If we are making wholesale changes, can we please get rid of the silly 5-cent premium for cash fares? A couple of bucks might be scrounge-able, but getting that extra nickel? That just makes it harder. Keep things as simple as possible. How about something like this:

• Charge every paying (non-discounted) customer $4 per trip. That includes 13+, Adults, and Seniors. If they use a card to pay, cap it at $140 each month (i.e., the 18th day and beyond are free). If they don’t have a credit/debit card, then they can buy a PRESTO card ($4 each), or pay cash. There would be, obviously, no monthly cap if only cash is used.
• Make children 12 and under free. They can use a free ‘Child Card” with a QR-code to access the system. These would be given out by schools. (I would suggest that school boards cover the cost of producing these cards, since it is their bussing costs that OC Transpo is helping cover.) (Yes, there is the risk of someone else using the QR-code, but that is what fare enforcement is for.)
• Seniors can still have Sunday free, but move the other day to either Monday or Friday to correspond with the lowest ridership. (Or, since they would now be charged the full $4 fare, give them all three days, Sunday, Monday, and Friday, as a concession.) Senior’s free travel would still require a PRESTO card set with a Senior discount.
• Increase the U-Pass to $280 per term. Since a term is four months, this still represents a 50% discount. This will require changes in the contract, so it might take some time.
• The only other discount would be encoded on a PRESTO card and would charge half fares ($2 per ride) with a monthly maximum of $70. This would be used for ODSP recipients and low-income persons.
• OC Transpo can still produce QR-code printed Tourist Cards, if it has found them beneficial. Or it can rely on tourists buying a Day-Pass.

I have not done the math to find out if this produces the amount of money that OC Transpo needs, but I suspect that it will give them more than their plan does.