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  #62101  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2024, 9:32 PM
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How about a mid-afternoon mystery location, noirishers?

The eBay seller describes this photograph as "downtown Los Angeles" but I disagree. To me it looks more like. .say. .Avalon. .or Redondo Beach. .or


eBay"

Besides "Sweet's" and "Elite" there's an additional clue(or clues) in the upper right hand corner.





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Last edited by ethereal_reality; Oct 19, 2024 at 9:49 PM.
     
     
  #62102  
Old Posted Oct 19, 2024, 9:39 PM
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update

The same eBay seller also has this photograph listed as downtown Los Angeles.


eBay

Is it?

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  #62103  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2024, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post

ROSE BOWL 1954


eBay

I'm curious about the light turquoise convertible with the sloped back. Does anyone know what kind of car it is?
It could be a 1940 Chevy convertible.

Video Link
     
     
  #62104  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2024, 2:40 PM
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Please help, O Great Noirish Sleuths.

The intersection of Barrington and National in WLA appears to be a "four corners" intersection with four-story towers currently anchoring only 3 of the 4 corners. The fourth corner has a more modern retail development.

Was there a fourth tower?

Pictures?
     
     
  #62105  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2024, 7:05 PM
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Either the strip mall on the fourth corner or the intersection (or both) has the name Colonial Corners. Looking at old aerial photos, it looks like the three buildings with towers were built in the early-60s when the fourth corner was still a park. The fourth corner was developed sometime between 1967 and 1972 in what looks like its current layout. My quick search didn't find any old photos, but I'd say that there were only ever three towers.
     
     
  #62106  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2024, 8:11 PM
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Thanks HossC. You're probably right. It sure looks like the 1940 Chevy convertable in your video.


MYSTERY OF THE MINIATURE GARDEN SHED.




It's difficult to read the description. The seller believes it says West 5th St. (?)



And here's a closer look at the mystery box.



It's too high on the pole to be a police call box. (see top photo again)

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  #62107  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2024, 8:39 PM
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e_r, we're at Hill and 4th, looking east on 4th.

My image server is doing maintenance at the moment, so I can't post a pic; but for another view of the same corner, see a bit more than halfway down at:

https://home.csulb.edu/~odinthor/socal8.html

But I dunno about that aerial shed!
     
     
  #62108  
Old Posted Oct 20, 2024, 10:34 PM
HenryHuntington HenryHuntington is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odinthor View Post


e_r, we're at Hill and 4th, looking east on 4th.

My image server is doing maintenance at the moment, so I can't post a pic; but for another view of the same corner, see a bit more than halfway down at:

https://home.csulb.edu/~odinthor/socal8.html

But I dunno about that aerial shed!
______________

Given the heavy-gauge electrical cable that appears to be running to it down the side of the pole and the presence of feeder cables (maybe) near the top of the pole for the overhead trolley wire along Hill St., I'd guess that the shed houses a circuit breaker.

Last edited by HenryHuntington; Oct 20, 2024 at 10:36 PM. Reason: typo
     
     
  #62109  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2024, 3:11 AM
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Saw this nice 1970s slide of Alameda and Olive in Burbank on eBay and it got me thinking about how many of these buildings are still with us today.

(CustomerSatisfactionIsKey on eBay)
Roughly the same view today

GSV
Wienerschnitzel 3203 W. Alameda
(Built in 1969 as Sam's Roast Beef, a division of Denny's)

GSV
Commissary Coffee
3121 W. Olive St.
(Built in 1964 as Orange Julius)

GSV
Here is a far better way to understand and appreciate the architecture of that little Orange Julius building. This is an unnamed location of an identical prototype store elsewhere in Southern California.

{
(Southern California Edison Photographs and Negatives/Huntington Library)
A&O Liquor
3117 W. Olive St.
Built in 1941

Here's a little robbery noir to keep us going...

LAT 9/28/49
...and in the background, old glorious Chadney's
3000 W. Olive St.
(Built in 1960 as the Carriage House restaurant)

GSV

Matchbook on Flickr
     
     
  #62110  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2024, 3:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lwize View Post
Please help, O Great Noirish Sleuths.

The intersection of Barrington and National in WLA appears to be a "four corners" intersection with four-story towers currently anchoring only 3 of the 4 corners. The fourth corner has a more modern retail development.

Was there a fourth tower?

Pictures?
Colonial Corners in the Los Angeles Historic Resources Inventory

https://hpla.lacity.org/report/5f35d531-61bd-4d59-86cd-bc1e5cf8e5ae


Los Angeles magazine December, 2022
Ask Chris

Q: What are those three  buildings with domes at National and Barrington boulevards?

A: Starting in 1940, Paul J. Howard ran a sprawling plant nursery and extravagant gift shop called California Flowerland on that corner. In his twilight years, the super patriot added shops and restaurants built in Early American style along his property. “Colonial Corners” had giant flagpoles, monuments to the presidents, and an old-fashioned ice cream parlor with 66 flavors. Howard railed against taxes and talked of preserving Americana, but weeks after his death in 1966, his heirs sold it all to real estate developers. If you squint hard enough at the roaring hearth inside the Starbucks, you can imagine you’re in Colonial Williamsburg.

https://lamag.com/landmarks/ask-chris-what-happened-to-santa-monicas-hot-dog-on-a-stick
     
     
  #62111  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2024, 5:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post
.

I've been trying to figure out where silent film star Viola Dana had a farm ee eye ee eye oh.






.
Although "Along Came Ruth" was released in November 1924, a cropped version of this photo (just Viola and the turkey) appeared
in the November 28, 1923, Illustrated Daily News with the caption "PICKS HER OWN -- Viola Dana does not leave the selection of
her Thanksgiving turkey to the butcher. She hies herself to the farm and picks it off the hoof."

If Viola Dana had a farm, it may have been in the San Fernando Valley at what was called Cahuenga Park, where she bought 6 lots:



January 13, 1923, Los Angeles Record @ Newspapers.com


Cahuenga Park included acre- and half-acre farms. I'm fairly certain the "Sherman Way" referred to below is now Van Nuys Blvd.:



January 27, 1923, Los Angeles Record @ Newspapers.com


Here's a map showing Cahuenga Park (and the nearby Hollywood Country Club -- have we discussed that before?). The "proposed blvd.
from Cahuenga Park to the ocean" (lower left corner) I guess is now Beverly Glen Blvd.:



November 26, 1922, Los Angeles Times @ Newspapers.com


Getting back to Viola and her turkeys, there's this odd bit from the October 14, 1923, Los Angeles Times, which appeared under the
heading CATERING TO CAPRICES. The article, which reads like it may have been taken from a longer piece, includes " . . . turkeys,
which Miss Dana agrees are hard to raise, even in Southern California . . . ." So maybe she really did raise turkeys.



Newspapers.com
     
     
  #62112  
Old Posted Oct 22, 2024, 9:19 PM
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Not L.A. or even So. Cal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ethereal_reality View Post
update

the same ebay seller also has this photograph listed as downtown los angeles.


ebay

is it? Not l.a. It has nor. Cal traffic signs (csaa). So cal would have acsc logo.

.
t
     
     
  #62113  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2024, 1:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snix View Post
Here is a far better way to understand and appreciate the architecture of that little Orange Julius building. This is an unnamed location of an identical prototype store elsewhere in Southern California.
Although the layout is a little different from the example above, I'm pretty sure this establishment on Crenshaw Boulevard in Gardena started out life as an Orange Julius.

     
     
  #62114  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2024, 9:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bristolian View Post
Although the layout is a little different from the example above, I'm pretty sure this establishment on Crenshaw Boulevard in Gardena started out life as an Orange Julius.

Hi Bristolian,
At first I thought you were wrong since the zigzag roof is perpendicular to the others of that style, but it was indeed built as an Orange Julius.

Gardena Valley News and Gardena Tribune
Thu, Nov 19, 1964
I believe this is the same building used to portray a vintage Carl's Jr. store in one of those weird Carl Hardee, Sr. commercials from a few years back.

YouTube
https://youtu.be/YrsJFDaAaLU?si=Yoc9Ug3UN2wjbHIj&t=98
     
     
  #62115  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2024, 12:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snix View Post
Here is a far better way to understand and appreciate the architecture of that little Orange Julius building. This is an unnamed location of an identical prototype store elsewhere in Southern California.
There was an Orange Julius location in this style (minus the cinder block wall in front) at the old South Bay Center in Redondo Beach, a modest outdoor shopping mall that was demolished in the late 1970s to make way for the South Bay Galleria.
     
     
  #62116  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2024, 3:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Handsome Stranger View Post
There was an Orange Julius location in this style (minus the cinder block wall in front) at the old South Bay Center in Redondo Beach, a modest outdoor shopping mall that was demolished in the late 1970s to make way for the South Bay Galleria.
Per Curbed, this was also an Orange Julius (Pico and Point View?). I knew it as Best Burger In LA, and it was ok.. i had to snap it before they reimagined it as apartments.






These were taken around 2018 or by me.
     
     
  #62117  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2024, 9:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HenryHuntington View Post
______________

Given the heavy-gauge electrical cable that appears to be running to it down the side of the pole and the presence of feeder cables (maybe) near the top of the pole
for the overhead trolley wire along Hill St., I'd guess that the shed houses a circuit breaker.
Thanks HenryHuntington & odinthor. I appreciate the help in figuring out the mystery box.


.
     
     
  #62118  
Old Posted Oct 24, 2024, 9:24 PM
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The signs in the pictures of old Orange Julius locations posted Snix and unihikid reminded me of one of my (Orange?) Julius Shulman posts. I've edited the version below - the full post is here.

I checked the CDs, and this was indeed an Orange Julius location in the '60s and '70s. Although it lacks the distinctive architecture in the posts above, you can see the original sign outlines in the GSV image below.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HossC View Post

...

This area appears very briefly in the 2000 Dukes of Hazzard TV movie 'Hazzard in Hollywood'. I won't go into the complex plotline (), but in this scene the Duke Boys are escaping from the bad guys when they swerve into a bikini car wash at Prospect and Vermont.

...

Looking the other way, we get a quick glimpse of Orange Bee Jay's at 1670 N Vermont. It appears in the 1987 CD.


Warner Bros

Orange Bee Jay's is now Machos Tacos.


GSV
     
     
  #62119  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2024, 10:55 AM
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From LATimes.com today:

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-10-23/black-dahlia-myth-reality-larry-harnisch

Quote:
CRIMES OF THE TIMES

L.A.’s most notorious unsolved murder

The killing of Elizabeth Short, dubbed the Black Dahlia, has inspired endless theories


By Christopher Goffard

At the Long Beach drugstore counter where she liked to linger, a jobless young woman named Elizabeth Short acquired the playful nickname that would fuel her long, macabre afterlife. She dyed her hair jet black, matching the funereal hue of the clothes she favored. The Black Dahlia, people called her, riffing on a Raymond Chandler noir motion picture called “The Blue Dahlia.”

After Short’s mutilated body was found Jan. 15, 1947, in a weedy lot in South Los Angeles, cops and reporters found her hangouts and learned her nickname. It made her sound like some kind of rare, poisonous bloom, a night creature on intimate terms with death.

There’s no proof she even knew of the nickname. It derived from noir fantasy and helped transform her into noir fantasy. Writers tailored her story to fit a femme fatale archetype. She was often described as an aspiring actress, and her death played as a cautionary tale parents might tell daughters who dreamed of taking a bus to Hollywood to find stardom.

The myths continue to swirl around Elizabeth Short, whose death at 22 has spawned endless byzantine theories. As with Jack the Ripper, an evocative moniker, an undercurrent of sex, outsize savagery and a lack of resolution combined to fuel enduring fascination. It remains L.A.’s most famous unsolved murder.

Short was born in Boston, a child of the Depression. She came to Southern California not to pursue film stardom but a paramour. When that affair ended, she drifted between neighborhoods and temporary friendships. At one point, she had an aspiring actress for a housemate and appropriated that woman’s anecdotes as her own. She invented endless stories to gain sympathy. Sometimes she was a war widow; sometimes she had lost a child.

She liked military men and dated officers, not enlisted men. She used candle wax to fill her cavities. She cadged meals and rides and slept in an all-night movie theater.

She had no permanent address when a traveling salesman picked her up in San Diego in January 1947 and drove her to the bus station in downtown Los Angeles, where she dropped off her suitcases. He then left her at the Biltmore Hotel — she had lied and said she was meeting her sister there.

Her body was spotted a few days later by a woman pushing a stroller down Norton Avenue in Leimert Park. At first, police thought it was a mannequin. The mouth was sliced ear to ear, and the body was naked, posed flat on her back, drained of blood and in two parts, neatly severed between the second and third lumbar vertebrae. The lead detective suspected a practiced surgical hand.

At the time, four Los Angeles newspapers competed fiercely for scoops. The Examiner transmitted the victim’s fingerprints to the FBI to determine her name. (Short’s prints were on file because she had been arrested in Santa Barbara for underage drinking a few years earlier.) To elicit background information, an Examiner reporter then called Short’s mother with the cruel ruse that her daughter had won a beauty contest.

Police learned that Short had had brief encounters with many men, who almost unanimously maintained the encounters had been nonsexual. The lead detective would describe her as “a tease,” adding: “She probably went too far this time, and just set some guy off into a blind, berserk rage.”

The admixture of disapproval and disdain extended to popular accounts. “She was a lazy girl and irresponsible,” Jack Webb wrote in “The Badge.” “At twenty-one, when she should have been starting married life or maybe a modest career, she was already obsolescent.”

Webb’s book, published in 1958, suggested Short’s hold on the imagination a decade after her death.

“To the sociologist, she is the typical, unfortunate depression child who matured too suddenly in her teens into the easy money, easy living, easy loving of wartime America,” Webb wrote. To the criminologist, “her tortured, severed body is an eerie blend of Poe and Freud.”

Short’s murder highlighted attitudes about the transformation of American women, who had found independence in the World War II economy and expected to keep it.

“One of the biggest characters that influences the mythos of this case is postwar Los Angeles,” said Anne Redding, who teaches the case at Santa Barbara City College. “There was a backlash to the whole Rosie the Riveter movement. Women were supposed to go back to being wives and moms. I think that heavily influenced the misogyny.”

Redding sees a sign of Short’s independence in the rose tattoo on her leg — an uncommonly daring gesture in the 1940s. “There was a little bit of edge play going on,” she said. Short was “striking out on a whim without much of a plan.”

Redding tries to show students the ways that Short’s past made her vulnerable. How her father abandoned her family when she was 6. How asthma curtailed her education. How she never recovered from the 1945 death of a military pilot she loved, which seemed to initiate a “progressive degeneration of her ability to cope with the world and take care of herself.”

Short had worked as a waitress and cashier, but “there’s no record that she ever had another job” after his death in a plane crash. “Her nomadic nature accelerated,” Redding said.

When Short left the Biltmore Hotel, it’s possible she was heading back to the bus station, where it was safer to pass the night on a bench than on the streets.

“Wherever she went, she was alone. She was literally homeless. She had no one,” Redding said. “She was a relatively attractive young woman. She was a compulsive liar. She was known to approach strangers for favors. Whether you could call her intentionally manipulative, or, to be more generous, dangerously trusting, she was a high-risk victim in a high-risk situation.”

Larry Harnisch, a retired Los Angeles Times copy editor, is now arguably the world’s top authority on the case. The battle for accuracy against the “true crime industrial complex” is never-ending. It would be easy to spend all day, every day, fighting off the crackpot theories of what the novelist James Ellroy has called “Dahlia freaks.”

In myth, Short was an aspiring starlet “sleeping her way across Tinseltown ... the starstruck moth who comes to Hollywood and gets burned by the Hollywood flame” and “finds in death the fame she didn’t find in life,” as Harnisch puts it.

In reality, Harnisch says, she never took an acting class, never registered in Central Casting and never lost the Boston accent that would have limited her roles.

Harnisch began researching the case seriously in the late 1990s, for a 50th anniversary story. He does not believe there is a single factually reliable book about it.

In Piu Eatwell’s “Black Dahlia Red Rose,” the killer is a bellhop named Leslie Dillon. (“He didn’t do it,” Harnisch says. “He was in San Francisco. If [Eatwell] had talked to me for five minutes, I would have said, ‘That’s bullshit.’ ”)

In John Gilmore’s “Severed,” the killer is Jack Wilson, a Skid Row alcoholic. (Harnisch calls the book “25% mistakes and 50% fiction.”)

In Steve Hodel’s “Black Dahlia Avenger,” the killer is the author’s father, George Hodel, a doctor who ran a venereal disease clinic. (“It’s crap. It’s fabricated.”)

In Donald H. Wolfe’s “The Black Dahlia Files,” the killer is gangster Bugsy Siegel, acting at the behest of L.A. Times publisher Norman Chandler, who (allegedly) impregnated Short and wanted her out of the way. (“Ridiculous, painfully stupid.”)

In another book, a woman claims she saw her father kill Short but repressed the memory for years. Another author fingers filmmaker Orson Welles (linked to the slaying because he sawed an assistant in two in a magic act).

“People are so nuts,” Harnisch says. “People don’t want the record set straight. People want this grab bag of noir tropes.”

Harnisch has his own favorite suspect. John Douglas, the former FBI profiler, told him there was meaning in where Short’s body was found. The killer could have dumped the body in the desert or the mountains but chose a much-traveled stretch of Norton Avenue. Probably the killer had a link to the area and wanted to “put the fear of God” in its residents.

Harnisch found something generations of detectives had missed: Short had a connection to the neighborhood. Her sister knew a surgeon named Walter Bayley, whose estranged wife lived a block from the crime scene.

Bayley was 66 and suffering from a brain lesion that had dramatically changed his personality. His office was blocks from the Biltmore.

Maybe a destitute Short had emerged from the Biltmore that night and sought his help … maybe she told the sob story about losing a child, not knowing that Bayley’s own son actually had been killed by a truck … maybe this enraged him.

Bayley died a year after Short’s murder. The Times was unable to locate any living relatives.

“Bayley had the skill to do what was done to her,” Harnisch said. “He’s not a perfect suspect, but he checks more boxes than anyone else. I always hedge.”

Harnisch is at work on his own Dahlia book. It’s 156,000 words and growing.
David Lambkin, a retired detective, said the physical evidence was nearly nonexistent by the time he examined the case as head of the LAPD’s Cold Case Unit in 2001. He said it is unlikely ever to be solved. He is familiar with the books and the suspects they propose.

“Very few have anything going for them,” he said. “My favorite is Larry Harnisch’s theory. Harnisch could actually connect his suspect to that location.”
     
     
  #62120  
Old Posted Oct 26, 2024, 2:49 PM
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