VIA Rail network developments

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

6-7 years just for the development/design phase. Holy hell. Looks like these smart bureaucrats know how to ensure themselves job security for the foreseeable future.

Originally Posted by stolenottawa

14 years!?

This is about normal for what will be one of the largest projects attempted in Canada's history and delivered by a public-private partnership (which means more stakeholders and process).

Not explicit here is that one of the ways to make the business case work for this is for the consortium to be able to do major development near stations. That might not happen in major cities. But it may happen in places like Peterborough and Trois Rivières. So this is definitely about planning more than just the rail line.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I'm not convinced he will. The CPC platform talks about improving passenger rail, and the way the HxR project has been formulated, it ticks all of the boxes that Skippy would like, especially now that Air Canada has joined one of the consortiums.

I want to be optimistic. But the way these parties are influenced by American grievance politics, particularly that zero sum thinking, doesn't have me very optimistic.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by roger1818

I'm not convinced he will. The CPC platform talks about improving passenger rail, and the way the HxR project has been formulated, it ticks all of the boxes that Skippy would like, especially now that Air Canada has joined one of the consortiums.

I suspect that is aimed at rural train service. So we might see an improvement in service there which in the scheme of things is very cheap.

We are going to see large scale governent spending cuts so it's hard to see a project that the even Liberals were hesitant about who never saw project not worth "investing in.

The math is pretty dubious on any projections of ridership given how suburban and car oriented most trips are and the costs involved. If we are going to throw money at the sacred cow of Climate Change this at least gives us some benefits other than employment but it's very expensive per ton of carbon removed for sure.

[Truenorth00]

The primary goal of any intercity rail service is not to cut emissions. That's a nice second order benefit. It's to improve connectivity, which in turn should improve economic productivity and quality of life. Unfortunately, the average Canuck and especially the average politician is a one-dimensional moron who thinks choo choos are only about environmentalism.

The Chinese, Germans, French, Italians, Spaniards, Japanese, and even the Moroccans didn't build HSR because they care about cutting emissions.

[rocketphish]

Canada 'seriously' considering high-speed rail link between Toronto and Quebec City: minister
Companies bidding on planned new passenger rail corridor have been asked to evaluate a high-speed option

David Thurton · CBC News
Posted: Oct 09, 2024 4:00 AM EDT | Last Updated: 5 hours ago

The federal government is "seriously" considering building the country's first high-speed rail link between Quebec City and Toronto, says Public Services and Procurement Minister Jean-Yves Duclos.

Ottawa announced plans back in 2021 to build what it called a "high-frequency" (HFR) rail corridor with stops in Toronto, Peterborough, Ottawa, Montreal, Trois-Rivières, Laval and Quebec City. At the time, the government estimated the cost at between $6 billion and $12 billion.

The federal government identified three qualified bidders for the project last year. A spokesperson for VIA HFR, the VIA Rail subsidiary set up to oversee the project, said the bidders have been asked to provide the government with two options: a "conventional" rail network with trains reaching speeds of 200 km/h, and a network with trains reaching speeds "comparable to those of European trains."

Duclos said Monday the government expects to name the successful bidder soon and to release more information about how the new rail corridor would work. His comments came after the Toronto Star reported the federal cabinet is considering high-speed rail for the corridor — trains that would travel faster than 200 km/h.

"Because the models that work best (for HFR) are quite close to a high-speed train … you can achieve quite fast trains even with high-frequency trains," Duclos said.

"The next step is to go to a high-speed train and that's an option which is being seriously considered."

<more>

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/high-speed-rail-toronto-quebec-1.7346480

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by rocketphish

Canada 'seriously' considering high-speed rail link between Toronto and Quebec City: minister
Companies bidding on planned new passenger rail corridor have been asked to evaluate a high-speed option

David Thurton · CBC News
Posted: Oct 09, 2024 4:00 AM EDT | Last Updated: 5 hours ago

The federal government is "seriously" considering building the country's first high-speed rail link between Quebec City and Toronto, says Public Services and Procurement Minister Jean-Yves Duclos.

Ottawa announced plans back in 2021 to build what it called a "high-frequency" (HFR) rail corridor with stops in Toronto, Peterborough, Ottawa, Montreal, Trois-Rivières, Laval and Quebec City. At the time, the government estimated the cost at between $6 billion and $12 billion.

The federal government identified three qualified bidders for the project last year. A spokesperson for VIA HFR, the VIA Rail subsidiary set up to oversee the project, said the bidders have been asked to provide the government with two options: a "conventional" rail network with trains reaching speeds of 200 km/h, and a network with trains reaching speeds "comparable to those of European trains."

Duclos said Monday the government expects to name the successful bidder soon and to release more information about how the new rail corridor would work. His comments came after the Toronto Star reported the federal cabinet is considering high-speed rail for the corridor — trains that would travel faster than 200 km/h.

"Because the models that work best (for HFR) are quite close to a high-speed train … you can achieve quite fast trains even with high-frequency trains," Duclos said.

"The next step is to go to a high-speed train and that's an option which is being seriously considered."

<more>

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/high-speed-rail-toronto-quebec-1.7346480

I'll believe when I see shovels in the ground and not before

[Innsertnamehere]

Exactly. Final investment decision is still years away following a development phase, including a Federal-level EA which is famously bureaucratic.

Even if they do choose the high speed option, you are looking at optimistically 4-5 years until the final investment decision.

The current Liberal government will be lucky if it has 12 months of life left in it meanwhile.

What will the Conservative government-in-waiting do to this project? That's the question we need to ask in determining if this is even worth putting energy into caring about.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by VANRIDERFAN

I'll believe when I see shovels in the ground and not before

This government is "seriously considering" it in the pre-election period. The next government will probably stop "seriously considering" it.

[NOWINYOW]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

This government is "seriously considering" it in the pre-election period. The next government will probably stop "seriously considering" it.

You're right. Just like this government stopped talking about it after the last election.

It's a shame public transportation is used as eye-candy by all governments pre-elections. The bigger shame is people continue to fall for it.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

This government is "seriously considering" it in the pre-election period. The next government will probably stop "seriously considering" it.

This is the same government that said they were "seriously considering" nuclear powered submarines in a throwaway line during a press scrum.

Also, a good chunk of this government came from the McGuinty/Wynne government who pulled the same stunt on Ontario HSR in Southwestern Ontario. Claimed they were advancing it. Did nothing. And when the next election came around, announced a study in a panic when various SWO mayors started calling them out for not doing anything. At least this might actually get to a design contract.

[VANRIDERFAN]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

This is the same government that said they were "seriously considering" nuclear powered submarines in a throwaway line during a press scrum.

Also, a good chunk of this government came from the McGuinty/Wynne government who pulled the same stunt on Ontario HSR in Southwestern Ontario. Claimed they were advancing it. Did nothing. And when the next election came around, announced a study in a panic when various SWO mayors started calling them out for not doing anything. At least this might actually get to a design contract.

If only we had kept developing and advancing from the Turbo train days.

[BanjoUnchained]

CN imposes axle-count restriction on VIA’s Venture trainsets
‘Loss of shunt’ cited as reason; decision leads to equipment scramble
By Bob Johnston| October 14, 2024
MONTREAL — Apparently triggered by one or more incidents in which a VIA Rail Canada Venture trainset failed to activate highway crossing warning devices, Canadian National is now requiring that all of VIA’s Venture-equipped trainsets operate with 32 axles.

The edict came late Friday, at the beginning of Canada’s Thanksgiving Day holiday weekend. It also follows more than two years of extensive testing and more than a year of revenue service in which VIA’s newly arriving Siemens fleet operated on every segment of the Quebec City-Windsor, Ont., corridor.

Until now, VIA has standardized each Siemens-built trainsets with one cab car coach, three “economy” coaches and one business-class car. Four axles per car on the five coaches and four on the Charger locomotive add to 24 axles on the semi-permanently coupled trainset. As a result, VIA has scrambled to add equipment to already well-booked trains.

https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/...t-restriction-on-vias-venture-trainsets/

[zzptichka]

Good. Sometimes I feel like VIA doesn't care about adding capacity to their trains because they will get their profit margin by selling more expensive tickets with a limited supply. Order more cars, okay?

[Richard Eade]

Will they run with the last two coaches empty? Or will they have a 'Fire Sale' and see if more people would travel on VIA if the prices were low? Any bets on which they'll try?

[Kitchissippi]

I wish they'd put baggage cars. I'm pissed off that they've reneged on carrying full-sized bikes on the corridor trains, they now only take folding bikes.

[Richard Eade]

I wonder if incidents like this strengthen the argument for a separate passenger rail line as soon as practical. Segregating freight and passengers will not be cheap, but doing it sooner would be cheaper than implementing Positive Train Control (PTC) on existing lines + creating a new separate passenger corridor. Although PTC would still be needed for freight trains, it would take a lot of the urgency away – allowing that to be done over time.

CBC News: Passenger Train Came Within 335 Metres of Head-on Collision Near Cornwall:TSB
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/pa...on-collision-near-cornwall-tsb-1.7353670

The imposed Axle-Count doesn’t help VIA’s operating costs. This should not be necessary if VIA had its own route:
https://www.trains.com/trn/news-reviews/...t-restriction-on-vias-venture-trainsets/

And, the recent Slow Orders along various tracks:
https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/via-rail-warns...idor-due-to-speed-restrictions-1.7075380
and further east:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scot...al-longer-poor-rail-conditions-1.7242708

[OCCheetos]

Originally Posted by Richard Eade

I wonder if incidents like this strengthen the argument for a separate passenger rail line as soon as practical. Segregating freight and passengers will not be cheap, but doing it sooner would be cheaper than implementing Positive Train Control (PTC) on existing lines + creating a new separate passenger corridor.

That's a very big assumption.

Although PTC would still be needed for freight trains, it would take a lot of the urgency away – allowing that to be done over time.

Freight train accidents can still easily be catastrophic. Whether it's a Lac Mégantique type disaster or just disabled the country's main freight rail line, an accident can still have devastating consequences in terms of both death count and economic damage.

Treating a separate passenger line as a loophole to delay the implementation of these systems is just defeating the point of the TSB's recommendations.

It's not clever.

[ponyboycurtis]

Somewhat unrelated but seeing VIA at the top of the board brought something to mind.

I can tell you that I rode in the new passenger car at the start of the year which I was excited for. They aren't very good. Like.. at all. No curtain for the otherwise very large window which I would imagine could be quite annoying on a sunny day. The seats were awful. Very little padding and no bolstering.

I don't know if I was just deaf, dumb, blind and stupid and fatigued from being in transit for a couple days but I swear there were no power outlets. Whether it was a USB or conventional plug I didn't see anything. I had a battery pack if I needed it so it wasn't much more than a cursory glance. SURELY I am mistaken on this?

Either way. I didn't like the carriages at all from a comfort level.

[dougvdh]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

I wish they'd put baggage cars. I'm pissed off that they've reneged on carrying full-sized bikes on the corridor trains, they now only take folding bikes.

I think that's interim since they can't seem to tell you what train type you'll be on at the time of booking. Once all the new rolling stock (Charger/Venture) is in service and the old trains are retired (LRC on the Quebec City - Windsor Corridor), then (hopefully) they'll transport bikes again.

[MarkR]

Originally Posted by Kitchissippi

I wish they'd put baggage cars. I'm pissed off that they've reneged on carrying full-sized bikes on the corridor trains, they now only take folding bikes.

Yeah that was pretty crappy of them. I'd already been thinking of getting a good folder (Brompton now makes a 20"-wheel bike) for local use, and it would come in very handy travelling by Via.