General Vancouver Development Updates II

[kja384]

Inside The Cost-Profit Analysis Of Three-Bedroom Units In Metro Vancouver


https://storeys.com/apartment-unit-sizes-costs-profits-vancouver/

Do you guys think it makes sense to eliminate the rule that ~10% of units need to be 3 bedrooms?

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by kja384

Inside The Cost-Profit Analysis Of Three-Bedroom Units In Metro Vancouver


https://storeys.com/apartment-unit-sizes-costs-profits-vancouver/

Do you guys think it makes sense to eliminate the rule that ~10% of units need to be 3 bedrooms?

I mean if it's a huge hinderance I guess staff can give some feedback to the various city councils but I doubt there's more interest in doing it. It'll get worse with all the rules requiring "accessible" units.

[jollyburger]

7-Eleven Shuttering 444 Stores in North America

In its latest earnings report, Seven & I Holdings outlined several factors driving its decision to close hundreds of 7-Eleven stores. Among these are inflationary pressures that have squeezed the purchasing power of middle- and low-income consumers, resulting in reduced discretionary spending. High interest rates and a weakening job market have compounded these issues, making it harder for many customers to justify non-essential purchases.

As a result of these trends, the convenience store giant saw a 7.3 percent decline in foot traffic in August alone, marking six consecutive months of falling customer visits. This steady decrease in store traffic has directly impacted sales, contributing to the decision to close underperforming locations as part of a broader optimization strategy.

In Winnipeg, four 7-Eleven stores have closed as part of a larger trend driven by rising crime, particularly shoplifting, which has overwhelmed security efforts. Locations at 815 Ellice Avenue, 665 McPhillips Street, 1007 McPhillips Street, and 1103 Pembina Highway were among those affected.

Despite measures like time-lock safes, security cameras, and reduced access to high-theft items, these stores could not sustain operations. Additionally, the company has warned that up to 10 stores in the city could face similar closures due to ongoing security challenges

https://retail-insider.com/bulletin/2024/10/7-eleven-shuttering-444-stores-in-north-america/

[BaddieB]

Originally Posted by Burquitlaman

It's not wishful thinking, it's obvious to me that it's happening. 24 years ago when we immigrated to Canada, the Fraser Valley, Coquitlam, most of Burnaby etc... were wastelands. Look at them now. And it mostly began over the past 10-15 years.

Vancouver is tired and old. We need new ideas. A new economy. Less focus on Vancouver's problems and needs and more focus on what the rest of the city cares about.

We need industry and manufacturing. Burnaby and Fraser Valley can provide that (more land, growing populations, cheaper rents etc.). Public transport funds need to mostly go where the future is.

Vancouver's left wing politics are a drag on the rest of the Metro. The whole region suffers the consequences. Politicians bend to Vancouver's demands b/c DT is still king.

etc...

The more the population shifts East the less power Vancouver will have.

This is such wishful thinking. Vancouver is not tired and old? It is currently what Metrotown, Whatley, etc want to be in 30 years. And left wing? Vancouver is pretty on the right compared to other cities like it, and moreso than most Metro Vancouver councils right now. It has the most YIMBY council too, so while in the past few years it has been outbuilding Surrey in New starts (check CMHC for more info), the Broadway Plan is going to bring Vancouver up from quarter of starts to probably over a third. Vancouver's downtown is expanding beyond the peninsula and there's no sign of it slowing down.

And the idea that Vancouver holds too much power is laughable. Vancouver constantly gets shafted when it comes to infrastructure. South of Fraser gets a bunch of new bridges, highway expansions, and a new Skytrain extension, meanwhile Vancouver can't even get Skytrain to UBC which would have way more ridership. South of Fraser's problems are a result of sprawl because of Vancouver's nimbyism, but the tide on that has completely switched. Watch Vancouver continue to outbuild Surrey in the next decade.

[hollywoodnorth]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

https://retail-insider.com/bulletin/2024/10/7-eleven-shuttering-444-stores-in-north-america/

many are closing right now across Metro >>

https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/1g2eemb/what_is_happening_to_all_the_7elevens_in/

https://www.reddit.com/r/coquitlam/comments/1fxs8gc/7eleven_on_david_shutting_down/

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by hollywoodnorth

many are closing right now across Metro >>

https://www.reddit.com/r/vancouver/comments/1g2eemb/what_is_happening_to_all_the_7elevens_in/

https://www.reddit.com/r/coquitlam/comments/1fxs8gc/7eleven_on_david_shutting_down/

Sorry wrong thread was supposed to be in Retail.

[GenWhy?]

Originally Posted by Burquitlaman

Nobody expects POCO and random bum part of Burnaby near the Vancouver border with a sea of SFHs (CoV style!) to be the next DT. I'm talking about the population centers that will form the core of the next big things in the metro. Senakw is basically SFU type leaseholds. Do they even have more homes in that project compared to what's already at the top of SFU?

Oakridge is no Brentwood or Lougheed or Burquitlam.

Broadway is decent.

The UK didn't stop being powerful in 1940. It dragged on for a while. Vancouver is the same. It'll drag on for a while. But the trend is Eastward.

I don't think many of us would disagree that more people, in concentrated areas, will increase in the surrounding Metro cities. I think what some, myself included, are saying is "downtown" and the economic / cultural centre of the region is a lot more than just a concentration of population.

I'd expect Oakridge at full build-out (with some adjacent high-rises in the Cambie Corridor) not to be any more "the next core" than Metrotown or Brentwood. Surrey might take the South-of-Fraser cultural centre crown. If other cities can do what Mount Pleasant Industrial area is doing, in a concentrated area with lots of homes nearby with great transportation access, then that would be a great benefit to the region.

[Burquitlaman]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Likewise, Brentwood is no downtown yet; only time will tell if it can be more than just another suburban hub.

The centre of gravity is shifting slightly southeastward... and it looks like it's stopping at Mount Pleasant. It might make it all the way to Commercial depending on how much Surrey gets serious about urbanizing, but for now, the "town centres" are still bedroom communities.

For now, yes. But the energy is not there anymore. It's palpable. People get that icky feeling when you mention DT these days.

Vancouver will only have "density" going for it in two decades. Density is important, but I'll take a giant version of Brentwood/Lougheed/Burquitlam/Metrotown etc. (which we will have in the coming decades) over anything DT has to offer, as dense or not.

I mean, if Brentwood is already commanding similar or more $/sqf than DT, does anything more need to be said? Could we have imagined that 15 years ago?

Here's another important factor: new immigrants much prefer the "bedroom communities". Finances, bigger families, safety, more conservative, idea that DT cores=bad etc... those are factors/reasons why they prefer to move to the so called bedroom communities. I think we're just getting started.

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by Burquitlaman

Vancouver will only have "density" going for it in two decades...

Unless Surrey, Burnaby and other inland municipalities suddenly develop new beaches and oceanfront public space, Vancouver's still going to have a tremendous appeal.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Burquitlaman

- snip -

If “safety” and “family” are the metrics for the centre of the metro, Burnaby is nowhere near the top of the list. They can’t even bother with streetlights half the time.

Wake me up when the Canucks, Lions, seawall, Aquarium, convention centres, cultural centres, post-secondaries, hotels, tourists traps or museums pack up and move anywhere close to Brentwood or Metrotown, let alone Lougheed - until then, all I’m hearing is wishful thinking.

[seamusmcduff]

There's more to being a core/center to the region than just population. Most suburban cities have been building their town centres to be bedroom communities, and they lack the amenities and destinations that Vancouver has, and likely always will. The cost of land now makes the value proposition of building things like the PNE, BC Place, Seawall, aquarium, or even the concentration of jobs, unobtainable for Surrey or Burnaby. No one is going to build those things when the ppsf of residential is so much higher than any other use. The suburbs have enough trouble getting retail space, let alone job centres or cultural uses. Both Burnaby and Surrey had to scale back the commercial and office plans/requirements for their City/town centres because no one was building those spaces, and developers were demanding they let them build more residential. The suburbs can't become hubs if there's no reason to go there.

[BaddieB]

Vancouver is building a combined Metrotown, Brentwood, Whalley and Loughquitlam level of housing along the Broadway and Cambie corridors, not to mention Rupert Renfrew plans and Jericho Lands.

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by BaddieB

This is such wishful thinking. Vancouver is not tired and old? It is currently what Metrotown, Whatley, etc want to be in 30 years. And left wing? Vancouver is pretty on the right compared to other cities like it, and moreso than most Metro Vancouver councils right now. It has the most YIMBY council too, so while in the past few years it has been outbuilding Surrey in New starts (check CMHC for more info), the Broadway Plan is going to bring Vancouver up from quarter of starts to probably over a third. Vancouver's downtown is expanding beyond the peninsula and there's no sign of it slowing down.

And the idea that Vancouver holds too much power is laughable. Vancouver constantly gets shafted when it comes to infrastructure. South of Fraser gets a bunch of new bridges, highway expansions, and a new Skytrain extension, meanwhile Vancouver can't even get Skytrain to UBC which would have way more ridership. South of Fraser's problems are a result of sprawl because of Vancouver's nimbyism, but the tide on that has completely switched. Watch Vancouver continue to outbuild Surrey in the next decade.

Point of note.

The Skytrain extension not going to UBC is not as a consequence of lack of will (political or otherwise) or prioritization, but rather because of logistical issues.

They can't build the Arbutus-UBC leg until the plans for the Jericho lands development are more finalized and concrete (excuse the pun) and the construction has began on at least part of that development that will hold the skytrain station - for coordination and resource-management purposes.

It's not something you can do after the fact or piece-meal.

The Jericho Lands initial proposal wasn't made until some time after the Skytrain extension construction and phasing schedule had already been decided and more or less finalized. And as the city/Translink had a preference for the line to pass through Jericho Lands rather than the original route going south of it, it meant that this phase of the construction could only go as far as Arbutus until the Jericho Lands proposal was much farther along in their development. We currently don't even have anything of that proposal beyond the initial masterplan concept.

At the same time, you can't hold up the completion and opening of the rest of the extension line on the East until the Jericho Lands was ready to go or got built-out because that would likely add another 8-10 years on top of any current completion date (currently scheduled to open in 2027, I believe?)

So would you have preferred us to wait until the mid-to-late 2030's for the Broadway Extension line running all the way to UBC to open? Rather than the current phased schedule that allows them to open the line to Arbutus as soon as in two years time?

[Vin]

Originally Posted by BaddieB

Vancouver is building a combined Metrotown, Brentwood, Whalley and Loughquitlam level of housing along the Broadway and Cambie corridors, not to mention Rupert Renfrew plans and Jericho Lands.

Not really, and even if the City is attempting to do so now, they are very late to the game. The densities offered are far lower than what the suburb cities have already built.

Originally Posted by seamusmcduff

There's more to being a core/center to the region than just population. Most suburban cities have been building their town centres to be bedroom communities, and they lack the amenities and destinations that Vancouver has, and likely always will. The cost of land now makes the value proposition of building things like the PNE, BC Place, Seawall, aquarium, or even the concentration of jobs, unobtainable for Surrey or Burnaby. No one is going to build those things when the ppsf of residential is so much higher than any other use. The suburbs have enough trouble getting retail space, let alone job centres or cultural uses. Both Burnaby and Surrey had to scale back the commercial and office plans/requirements for their City/town centres because no one was building those spaces, and developers were demanding they let them build more residential. The suburbs can't become hubs if there's no reason to go there.

That may be so in the beginning as these town centres basically started off as bedroom suburbs for Vancouver. However, as many of these areas are starting to become very vibrant due to their rapid growths, they are starting to incorporate other functions such as entertainment, commercial, shopping, etc. into the centres.

[Spr0ckets]

Also, these kinds of "Vancouver versus the rest of the Metro region" 🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵🞵 contests are just so childish in the supreme.

The only thing missing right now is the person who usually instigates them with their tower-sizes d*ck-measuring contests.

Nowhere else in the Metro region is challenging Vancouver as the regional center (both economically as employment and business capital, and also the cultural center) any time soon in our lifetimes. And people who think anywhere else will be are just deluding themselves.

But at the same time it would make for a better overall region if there were more employment hubs and socio-cultural magnets outside the Downtown and Vancouver core in the metro region make other communities more livable and reduce the transit pressures that the cities have to endure because of people having to commute to Downtown for work.

Some people prefer the 'bedroom' communities outside the core, despite it meaning long commutes for work or other stuff. So what if they don't have the stadiums, the beaches, the tourist traps and whatnot?

[Spr0ckets]

Originally Posted by whatnext

You were saying....

Vancouver emergency services strained by SRO and supportive housing calls: statistics
Kenneth Chan
Oct 16 2024, 2:11 pm

Between 2019 and 2023, a five-year span, five affordable housing properties within downtown Vancouver, classified as single-room occupancy (SRO) or supportive housing, collectively generated an astounding 30,904 calls for policing services....

....For the highly controversial Howard Johnston property, the data shows a 118% jump in the total number of calls for service over the five-year period, growing from 733 in 2019 to 1,596 in 2023.

There was a 525% surge in weapons calls at the Howard Johnston over five years, rising from one such call about every 46 days in 2019 (eight per year) to one per seven days in 2023 (50 per year). During the intervening years, the number of weapons calls per year reached 25 in 2020, 41 in 2021, and 34 in 2022. Based on the most recent data for the current year, there have already been 24 weapons calls over the first eight months of 2024....

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/vancouver-emergency-services-sro-supportive-housing-statistics

Okay then, so what do you think should be done with them?

You still didn't answer the question.

You've identified what you suggest is the problem, so what's your solution?

[Migrant_Coconut]

Burnaby: 2,750.7/km2
Metrotown: 7,907/km2

Vancouver: 5,749.9/km2
Fairview: 10,281.3/km2
West End: 23,838.4/km2

It's not even close.

Originally Posted by seamusmcduff

There's more to being a core/center to the region than just population. Most suburban cities have been building their town centres to be bedroom communities, and they lack the amenities and destinations that Vancouver has, and likely always will. The cost of land now makes the value proposition of building things like the PNE, BC Place, Seawall, aquarium, or even the concentration of jobs, unobtainable for Surrey or Burnaby. No one is going to build those things when the ppsf of residential is so much higher than any other use. The suburbs have enough trouble getting retail space, let alone job centres or cultural uses. Both Burnaby and Surrey had to scale back the commercial and office plans/requirements for their City/town centres because no one was building those spaces, and developers were demanding they let them build more residential. The suburbs can't become hubs if there's no reason to go there.

Surrey might be able to break out of that trap. It's far enough away from downtown (also separated by a river) and the future population high enough that jobs and amenities could eventually concentrate around Whalley and Fleetwood.

Burnaby, however, is caught in Vancouver's orbit, if not future Surrey's as well. It's always going to be a place where residents go somewhere else for the day.

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

Some people prefer the 'bedroom' communities outside the core, despite it meaning long commutes for work or other stuff. So what if they don't have the stadiums, the beaches, the tourist traps and whatnot?

Nothing wrong with it - the world needs both. But when some poster boasts that their bedroom community of choice is set to become the heart of the city, the rest of the forum gets to call that ridiculous.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by Vin

That may be so in the beginning as these town centres basically started off as bedroom suburbs for Vancouver. However, as many of these areas are starting to become very vibrant due to their rapid growths, they are starting to incorporate other functions such as entertainment, commercial, shopping, etc. into the centres.

You mean like the Amazing (Disappearing) Brentwood? A forest of residential towers, a scatter of stores and restaurants, a modest (and smaller) mall and a SkyTrain station to get you to Vancouver with the beaches, stadia, concerts, and concentration of employment. As others have commented, there's nothing wrong with this arrangement, but it is what it is, a bedroom community with the necessities reasonably close, but limited local employment or recreational facilities, and no plans to add many more of them.

[BaddieB]

Originally Posted by Spr0ckets

Point of note.

The Skytrain extension not going to UBC is not as a consequence of lack of will (political or otherwise) or prioritization, but rather because of logistical issues.

Be real. If Vancouver was full of swing ridings it would have gotten Skytrain to UBC in the 2000s, not in the 2030s. You really think the Jericho Lands is the sole reason for delaying it? If there's a political will there is a political way, not to mention they could build the Skytrain to UBC without interfering with Jericho if they just built it along 9th. That's just a bunch of nonsense.

[BaddieB]

Originally Posted by Vin

Not really, and even if the City is attempting to do so now, they are very late to the game. The densities offered are far lower than what the suburb cities have already built.

Late to the game? Downtown and Broadway already exist, unlike Brentwood and Whalley which are half baked.

One 800m TOD area around Oakridge has the same area as one Metrotown. As Vancouver has more stations it has more upzoned land compared to any other city.