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  #12821  
Old Posted Yesterday, 7:38 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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Originally Posted by P'tit Renard View Post
Especially younger Canadians who were sacrificed at the altar of lockdowns and Canada's failed COVID response.

Based on the latest World Happiness Report, Swedish youth at #18 are a lot happier than Canadian youth at #58, so it's easy to see why Swedes still trust their government a lot more.
What's that old chestnut about causation and correlation?
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  #12822  
Old Posted Yesterday, 7:38 PM
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Originally Posted by kool maudit View Post
I have no idea what went on in Florida.

.
I know. It's just that in Canada, Florida was held up (more than Sweden) as the prime example of a place that didn't give a shit about its people during COVID.
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  #12823  
Old Posted Yesterday, 7:38 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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Originally Posted by kool maudit View Post
Nothing. I got upset about the idea of someone looking back at Canadian pandemic measures with satisfaction and confidence. I was very upset by a lot of things that went on in those times. I didn't approve of my country's actions at all (nor those of the three provinces I have called home, if we need to get into jurisdictions).

Feel free to move onto more pressing issues.
Who's looking back at then with satisfaction and confidence? This discussion started because of the konvoy klowns.
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  #12824  
Old Posted Yesterday, 7:42 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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Originally Posted by Acajack View Post
I know. It's just that in Canada, Florida was held up (more than Sweden) as the prime example of a place that didn't give a shit about its people during COVID.
Florida ended up with a death rate of 4040 per M from COVID. About 3 times Canada's rate.
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  #12825  
Old Posted Yesterday, 8:07 PM
P'tit Renard P'tit Renard is offline
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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
What's that old chestnut about causation and correlation?
Evidently the causation of the anger of Canadian youth, is a government that continues to work against them and marginalises them at every turn to benefit the boomers.

To Canadian youth, Canada's COVID response share similar political DNA as the government engineered immigration ponzi schemes and the current housing crisis.

It's small wonder Canadian youth have little faith in their government.
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  #12826  
Old Posted Yesterday, 8:48 PM
Build.It Build.It is offline
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New York state (same population as Florida), which by and large took the same approach as Canada ended up with 4286 deaths/million.

Texas (which was as free as Florida) ended up with 3614 deaths/million.

It would appear that lockdowns and mandates had next to no impact on the number of COVID deaths. I recall a Johns Hopkins meta-analysis came to the same conclusion as well.

And this is subjective, but the US had far more availability to COVID tests than Canada. I remember going to the US in early 2022 and every pharmacy was selling take home tests (and had been the entire time), whereas in Canada you could barely get your hands on the take home tests. It's not a leap to wonder if Canada's actual COVID deaths number may be a tad higher than the official count.
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  #12827  
Old Posted Yesterday, 8:55 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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  #12828  
Old Posted Yesterday, 9:05 PM
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Anyone comparing red-state covid stats to GROUND-ZERO of the pandemic in the US is posting in bad faith. Most of New York's deaths happened before vaccines, nearly 80% of Florida's deaths happened after vaccines:

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  #12829  
Old Posted Yesterday, 9:07 PM
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Originally Posted by dleung View Post
Anyone comparing red-state covid stats to GROUND-ZERO of the pandemic in the US is posting in bad faith. Most of New York's deaths happened before vaccines, nearly 80% of Florida's deaths happened after vaccines:

More Canadians died from COVID during and after COVID lockdowns started than before COVID lockdowns started, checkmate liberals.
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  #12830  
Old Posted Yesterday, 9:15 PM
Build.It Build.It is offline
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"But, but, but...."

These people will never run out of excuses to justify why we should have fewer rights and freedoms. Reality is that at best lockdowns and mandates had a marginal effect.

If you are okay with governments being able to strip your rights/freedoms at a moment's notice, then so be it, there plenty of countries in Asia and South America that operate that way that you could move to. But leave those of us who don't want to live like that alone please.

People literally died fighting in wars so that you and I could have our freedom today, it is very upsetting that people are willing to just give it up this easily.

The same people that were for COVID mandates are now advocating for hate speech and climate change laws. The reason they give is different, but the intended outcome is the same (less freedom for everyone).

The irony is that these people are accusing those on the political right of being "authoritarians", while at the same time voting for policies that forcibly reduce everyone's freedom.

Down south the political left accuses Trump of wanting to end democracy, while at the same time removing their own democratically elected primary-candidate and replacing him with an unelected primary-candidate months before the election.

The fact that those on the political left don't see that they are the ones pushing us into undemocratic authoritarianism is baffling.

Last edited by Build.It; Yesterday at 9:48 PM.
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  #12831  
Old Posted Yesterday, 9:51 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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Originally Posted by Build.It View Post
People literally died fighting in wars so that you and I could have our freedom today, it is very upsetting that people are willing to just give it up this easily.
I deleted the rest of your BS, but this is hilarious. Yes, people volunteered and died in wars to protect our way of life and their neighbors. Extremely selfless sacrifices. And yet you won't wear a mask or take a safe and effective vaccine to do the same.
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  #12832  
Old Posted Yesterday, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
I deleted the rest of your BS, but this is hilarious. Yes, people volunteered and died in wars to protect our way of life and their neighbors. Extremely selfless sacrifices. And yet you won't wear a mask or take a safe and effective vaccine to do the same.
Might I remind everyone that in both WW1 and WW2 Canada had huge conscription crises where people thought the government was overreaching by forcing young men to fight and die in foreign wars all in the name of "some dubious world safety".

Unless perhaps you think the government was overreaching when trying to protect freedoms back then too?

Last edited by chowhou; Yesterday at 10:12 PM.
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  #12833  
Old Posted Yesterday, 10:43 PM
WarrenC12 WarrenC12 is offline
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Originally Posted by chowhou View Post
Unless perhaps you think the government was overreaching when trying to protect freedoms back then too?
What does that even mean?
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  #12834  
Old Posted Yesterday, 10:46 PM
Truenorth00 Truenorth00 is offline
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Originally Posted by theman23 View Post
I think this is out of touch. There's been a dramatic realignment of the political spectrum in this country, and demographics that routinely have voted for progressive parties are now firmly in the CPC tent. A lot of this has to do with the pandemic and its fallout. You could argue that it's unfair to apportion that much blame to the Liberals, but they did it to themselves by branding themselves as Canada's Pandemic Party in the last election.
I think very few young people care about COVID at the moment. That shift to the CPC is mostly about housing and cost of living. Who is actually talking about COVID these days unless they're forum nerds arguing politics?
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  #12835  
Old Posted Yesterday, 10:48 PM
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Hecate Hecate is offline
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Originally Posted by chowhou View Post
Might I remind everyone that in both WW1 and WW2 Canada had huge conscription crises where people thought the government was overreaching by forcing young men to fight and die in foreign wars all in the name of "some dubious world safety".

Unless perhaps you think the government was overreaching when trying to protect freedoms back then too?
Yes let’s talk about that sexist discriminatory policy. Sending the young men to die while the women and old people stayed home.
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  #12836  
Old Posted Yesterday, 11:08 PM
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chowhou chowhou is online now
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Originally Posted by WarrenC12 View Post
What does that even mean?
I had a small stroke, I meant, "Unless the other guy thinks that conscription to fight the invading Germans and 'protect our freedoms' was government overreach."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hecate View Post
Yes let’s talk about that sexist discriminatory policy. Sending the young men to die while the women and old people stayed home.
So you'd be in favour of it if everyone had to do their part?
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  #12837  
Old Posted Today, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Truenorth00 View Post
I think very few young people care about COVID at the moment. That shift to the CPC is mostly about housing and cost of living. Who is actually talking about COVID these days unless they're forum nerds arguing politics?
I'm speaking more to the economic after effects, which include housing and the cost of living, rather than something stupid like anti masking or anti vax. And I hear it all the time. There's a fair deal of resentment amongst young people about this government's tendency to eat the young to shore up its voter base. COVID was a big part of that.
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  #12838  
Old Posted Today, 12:26 AM
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[Delete, wrong thread]

Last edited by rousseau; Today at 12:55 AM.
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  #12839  
Old Posted Today, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by kool maudit View Post
Ugh... why must we do this? Are you really onside or is it just a sunk cost at this point, an artifact of your overall alignment?

A Canadian COVID policy lover, of all things. Well, let's go I guess.

Your error is twofold. One, you should be looking at excess deaths for this period due to differences in diagnostics, reporting, all sorts of things. Two, you assume that what you perceive as high Swedish COVID deaths are a consequence of the lack of mask mandates, and move these unfortunate people from the gallows into a "saved by Canada" anteroom you have built in your mind.

What we all know here is that Sweden had an absolutely enormous initial wave of COVID that was unlike anything Canada saw and occured in the late winter and spring of 2020. It came about due to Stockholm county's spring break coinciding with the enormous wave of infection in Northern Italy, which was the epicentre of the disease at that time, when it was very early and very potent.

The early "Swedish" wave was in fact a Stockholm phenomenon, and its contribution to the numbers has to do with a specific travel phenomenon and not national prophylactic measures. Malmo, for instance, was seeing numbers in line with Copenhagen across the border.

In March-April 2020, Sweden was no. 3 in COVID infections per capita in the world.

This was before the tomfoolery seen in Canada with masks and plexiglass and "papers, please" . By the time Canada had legislated masks on planes (SAS did that too), the wave was in decline. By June, as these mandates started to spread in Canada, the worst was over for good.

Where Sweden faltered was in its care homes, a truly bad outcome very much like New York and to a lesser extent parts of Quebec, but nothing to do with the metric on which I am comparing the two countries' responses.

There is legitimate moral anger and regret over the care homes here. There is none over your silly "saved by Canada" construction, because nobody thinks that Canadian-style measures would have done anything except distort the society, hamper education and create ugly legal precedents.

It is amazing to me that you would assume that Swedes were just somehow willing to tolerate a massacre, and to send their loved ones into their graves when a crude system of curfews, plexiglass dividers, iPad school and all the rest would have saved them.

That your obedience would force you into such a damning critique of a not-too-dissimilar people.

But you don't think this. Not really. You just know two things: 1) the protesters there were outgroup from your North American centre-left perspective (here, they were mainly old-school socialists), and 2) your country became a "papers, please" place in the 21st century, and no one would want to admit they did that for nothing.

I was in Toronto and Halifax in 2022 and they looked like shit. My niece and nephew thought "school" was a tablet app for two years.

Canada fucked up in those years and Sweden did better. I can't believe this is contested.
Well said.
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  #12840  
Old Posted Today, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by MolsonExport View Post
Hindsight is 20-20. Canada's death rate was lower than Sweden. This is a fact.
The stats in your post make it clear that there is no direct correlation between degree of lockdown stringency and lower mortality. Too many other factors and circumstances come into play when comparing places like Canada and Sweden, as kool demonstrated.

Regardless of how much anyone agrees or disagrees with how it was handled in Canada, I can't imagine people being willing to take another two-year hiatus on life the next time a pandemic occurs.
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