PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread X

[Skang]

This is Random but How do yall feel about Philly falling behind on 500ft skyscrapers ? City’s like Austin, Jersey City , Atlanta , Dallas are passing us , Will we still have the more Superior skyline In the next 10 years over those skyline ,, Thoughts ?

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by Skang

This is Random but How do yall feel about Philly falling behind on 500ft skyscrapers ? City’s like Austin, Jersey City , Atlanta , Dallas are passing us , Will we still have the more Superior skyline In the next 10 years over those skyline ,, Thoughts ?

Philly has great walkability, density, culture, and street presence. That’s all that matters IMO.

[TK2001]

I'd say we're going at a fine pace. We've had three towers built over 500 feet tall since 2019, and there's one underway now. We also still have the red Schuylkill Yards tower proposed along with Cathedral Square phase 2, and many fillers on the way. At first I wasn't so pleased with seeing many 300 foot towers proposed during the pandemic, but now most of them are shockingly complete and I'm honestly happy with them, even their filler height. I'm sure in the next few years we will see more 500 foot towers come.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by Skang

This is Random but How do yall feel about Philly falling behind on 500ft skyscrapers ? City’s like Austin, Jersey City , Atlanta , Dallas are passing us , Will we still have the more Superior skyline In the next 10 years over those skyline ,, Thoughts ?

Who cares. Yet Philly kicks the shit out of all of those cities when it comes to the most important city trait: walkability.

The way the city interacts with PEOPLE on the ground is what I look for the most. Cities like Philadelphia, Boston and DC in the US have little or no skyscrapers for their sizes and yet are far superior to places like Dallas, Houston and Atlanta that have more skyscrapers.

Cities like London, Paris, Barcelona, Rome, Amsterdam, etc. also have few skyscrapers.

Of course, we all want Philadelphia to build more skyscrapers and that’s why we’re on skyscraperpage… but I’m far more impressed lately with how Philadelphia is building outwards and rebuilding neighborhoods like Fishtown, East Kensington, Francisville, Brewerytown, etc. with walkable developments and commercial strips.

[Mr Saturn64]

Originally Posted by Skang

This is Random but How do yall feel about Philly falling behind on 500ft skyscrapers ? City’s like Austin, Jersey City , Atlanta , Dallas are passing us , Will we still have the more Superior skyline In the next 10 years over those skyline ,, Thoughts ?

The William Penn rule still pisses me off even though it was gone over a decade before I was born. Ed Bacon was the worst city planner ever. Give me Robert Moses over him.

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by TK2001

I'd say we're going at a fine pace. We've had three towers built over 500 feet tall since 2019, and there's one underway now. We also still have the red Schuylkill Yards tower proposed along with Cathedral Square phase 2, and many fillers on the way. At first I wasn't so pleased with seeing many 300 foot towers proposed during the pandemic, but now most of them are shockingly complete and I'm honestly happy with them, even their filler height. I'm sure in the next few years we will see more 500 foot towers come.

Is Cathedral Square phase 2 still proposed? I feared it was dead.

[PhilliesPhan]

Originally Posted by Skang

This is Random but How do yall feel about Philly falling behind on 500ft skyscrapers ? City’s like Austin, Jersey City , Atlanta , Dallas are passing us , Will we still have the more Superior skyline In the next 10 years over those skyline ,, Thoughts ?

I'm not concerned about "falling behind" other cities that don't have the dense urban fabric we have, save for Jersey City. Philly's strength comes from the density and activity of its neighborhoods, not the height of the skyline. I love that I can walk to the train station, take the R6 from Manayunk to Temple University, walk over to Human Robot for my favorite IPA of all time, and continue on to Fishtown for dining and/or entertainment. The same thing applies to my favorite spots in South Philly, West Philly, North Philly, and even Conshohocken. I'd rather we have a large number of walkable, active, and transit-accessible neighborhoods than a skyline keeping pace with the newer Sunbelt cities.

After my recent trip, I'd rather Philly strive to be more like a combination of Amsterdam. While Amsterdam doesn't have skyscrapers in its historic center, it offers a superior urban experience over nearly every US city. To me, Amsterdam is what Philly could have at least closely emulated had it never experienced all of the negatives associated with the middle of the 20th century.

[Arch+Eng]

Originally Posted by Skang

This is Random but How do yall feel about Philly falling behind on 500ft skyscrapers ? City’s like Austin, Jersey City , Atlanta , Dallas are passing us , Will we still have the more Superior skyline In the next 10 years over those skyline ,, Thoughts ?

I don't feel good about it.
This is skyscraperpage
not walkabilitypage

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by Skang

This is Random but How do yall feel about Philly falling behind on 500ft skyscrapers ? City’s like Austin, Jersey City , Atlanta , Dallas are passing us , Will we still have the more Superior skyline In the next 10 years over those skyline ,, Thoughts ?

Quality over quantity. I will refrain from saying any more, lest this turn into City v City.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by Skang

This is Random but How do yall feel about Philly falling behind on 500ft skyscrapers ? City’s like Austin, Jersey City , Atlanta , Dallas are passing us , Will we still have the more Superior skyline In the next 10 years over those skyline ,, Thoughts ?

Doesn't bother me. As others said, Philadelphia has the density, compactness, and walk-ability that those cities cannot touch. And the time will come when Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, etc., reach a tipping point with congestion, infrastructure, etc., and the growth will slow.

However, the quality of many new builds in Philadelphia these days is blah (no better than sunbelt cities and definitely behind Chicago. I don't use NYC as a comparison, since NYC is so far out on its own). And officials need to protect the handsome structures already here and make it more lucrative to refurbish them, instead of allowing senseless demolition (a trend since the 1950s!).

On the topic of "passing us"... The bigger problem for Philadelphia is remaining competitive from an economic, cultural, and tourism standpoint. 20 years ago, Atlanta and Dallas were not considered peers of Philadelphia, today they are (whether they are walk-able or not)... Philadelphia leaders (public and private) need to solidify its presence as a top tier city in a very competitive environment, and lately the city is making good moves.

[bdurk]

Like McGrath said, I prefer quality over quantity too. I was just thinking about how Houston has two supertalls compared to our one (thanks Comcast One for being 10 ft too short) yet I would much prefer our skyline. That being said, we do have some quality proposals that I really wish were under construction. Like TK said, Two Cathedral is probably the one I would want the most. Along with that, both the new Rittenhouse towers would be great as well as Broad and Lombard. The Durst proposal for Penn's Landing would be a dream come true but obviously Durst doesn't look like he would be breaking ground on any of his projects anytime soon. Hopefully the Schuylkill Yards supertall will have an official render in the coming years and maybe start relatively soon. So I would say that while I'm not disappointed in "falling behind," I do wish our proposals would get off the ground quicker and not sit stagnant.

I also believe that Philly still has so much room for growth and, like PHLtoNYC mentioned, other cities will hit their tipping point. I think that Callowhill should be upzoned and my dream would be for it to become a Hudson Yards-esque development in the sense of tall skyscrapers, but with more residential density. There are also plenty of other neighborhoods that I would love to see go the way of Brewerytown or Fishtown. I would love nothing more than for Germantown to get some money pumped into it. It's gorgeous and has so much potential, just needs some more transit.

[JohnIII]

I wouldn't worry about it for now; we have buildings being built below and above 500', we have walkability, we have vibrant businesses in downtown, we have neighborhoods being rejuvenated, we have a growing port and are maintaining momentum. We are well placed to add more skyscrapers if the City stays ambitious

[ColdJay64]

Originally Posted by Skang

This is Random but How do yall feel about Philly falling behind on 500ft skyscrapers ? City’s like Austin, Jersey City , Atlanta , Dallas are passing us , Will we still have the more Superior skyline In the next 10 years over those skyline ,, Thoughts ?

I don't feel great, is Philly the biggest NIMBY city in the entire country? I have to imagine the insane amount of opposition so many developments face has an impact on whether larger projects are even considered.

It's unlikely we will ever fall behind these cities from a general perspective of urbanity, but they probably will catch up to our skyline.

[Omaha12ne]

I love the look of the Philadelphia skyline. The buildings are in close proximity and I really like to different shapes/peaks/rooflines of the buildings. Especially with the sunrise in the background.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by ColdJay64

I don't feel great, is Philly the biggest NIMBY city in the entire country? I have to imagine the insane amount of opposition so many developments face has an impact on whether larger projects are even considered.

It's unlikely we will ever fall behind these cities from a general perspective of urbanity, but they probably will catch up to our skyline.

Comments like this make me think you're either 21 and don't have experience with this stuff and/or you've never lived anywhere else.

NIMBYism is rampant everywhere...in other places MUCH more than it is here. Many of Philly's neighborhoods are pro development...at one point or another pro-development people have taken over the neighborhood zoning boards of NoLibs, South Kensington, and Fishtown.

There have been a few cases in the past week alone where I've found myself driving or walking along a block and thought to myself, who would have imagine this would have looked like this even 5 years ago. I'm thinking specifically of Spring Garden St and North Delaware Avenue in Northern Liberties, North American Street in South Kensington, and Frankford Avenue in Fishtown. For God's sake I just noticed a "coming soon Sweetgreen" sign in one of the new builds in Fishtown. That would have caused riots in Fishtown a decade ago.

[PhillyPDX]

Originally Posted by Omaha12ne

I love the look of the Philadelphia skyline. The buildings are in close proximity and I really like to different shapes/peaks/rooflines of the buildings. Especially with the sunrise in the background.

Philly has a slow and steady development timeline, I’m ok with this. Atlanta, for all its boom-growth has not built high recently (per wiki, no 500 ft + since 2018). Austin is a growth juggernaut that all cities are competing with. Dallas metro will likely pass Chicago in next 20 years, let that sink in. Keep the slow and steady growth and Philly is doing just fine.

[Frontst17]

A lot of the towers built in Austin especially the first 80-100 feet are just parking podium. The streets are barren downtown. And I’m not worried because finally, finally people are starting to notice the gem Philadelphia is and are moving here. There’s a pretty stubborn momentum that hasn’t gone away the last decade plus and I see it actually accelerating. We’ve taken a lot of thunder from Boston DC and now increasingly New York. I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see 3-4 500 footers proposed between 2025-30

[DeltaNerd]

Originally Posted by Skang

This is Random but How do yall feel about Philly falling behind on 500ft skyscrapers ? City’s like Austin, Jersey City , Atlanta , Dallas are passing us , Will we still have the more Superior skyline In the next 10 years over those skyline ,, Thoughts ?

Not concern at all. I rather have tons of 5-10 floor buildings and housing especially going up at down the BSL and any RR station.

[wanderer34]

Originally Posted by PhilliesPhan

I'm not concerned about "falling behind" other cities that don't have the dense urban fabric we have, save for Jersey City. Philly's strength comes from the density and activity of its neighborhoods, not the height of the skyline. I love that I can walk to the train station, take the R6 from Manayunk to Temple University, walk over to Human Robot for my favorite IPA of all time, and continue on to Fishtown for dining and/or entertainment. The same thing applies to my favorite spots in South Philly, West Philly, North Philly, and even Conshohocken. I'd rather we have a large number of walkable, active, and transit-accessible neighborhoods than a skyline keeping pace with the newer Sunbelt cities.

After my recent trip, I'd rather Philly strive to be more like a combination of Amsterdam. While Amsterdam doesn't have skyscrapers in its historic center, it offers a superior urban experience over nearly every US city. To me, Amsterdam is what Philly could have at least closely emulated had it never experienced all of the negatives associated with the middle of the 20th century.

The difference between Philly and Amsterdam is that Philly is the sixth largest major city in the US, a major legacy city, the original US capital before it moved to DC, and the site of the Declaration of Independence, the Bill of Rights, and the US Constitution. It's a city that's tied to it's colonial past, for better or worse.

Amsterdam is the largest city in Holland, a major air and rail hub for Holland thanks to one of the busiest airports in the world (Schipol), and one of the busiest rail stations in Europe, the economic, commercial, and cultural center of Holland, the most visited city in Holland, and one of the most visited cities in the world.

I know a lot do not like to use the GaWC chart when comparing cities, but as of 2022, Amsterdam is still ranked as an Alpha city, while Philadelphia is now a Beta- city, now below cities such as Denver and Seattle, which are currently Beta cities (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globalization_and_World_Cities_Research_Network#Alpha).

What's the equivalent of the De Wallen district in Amsterdam, the center for cannabis and legalized prostitution? The closest I can think of is Old City, and there's no cannabis dispensaries nor any legalized prostitution anywhere (both are illegal in PA).

Also, Amsterdam is known as the "Venice of the North" due to the numerous canals that traverse throughout the city's center. We don't have canals anywhere in Philly. The closest city to Amsterdam in the US is New York, since it's old name used to be Amsterdam, and the Dutch colonists used to inhabit New Amsterdam until it became New York thanks to the Brits. Also, Dutch names such as Wyckoff, Vandeveer, and Bushwick are either street names or place names in NY. The Roosevelts (Teddy and FDR) are descended from the Dutch, as is Van Buren. Finally, the flag of NYC is based of the Dutch's original colors of blue, white, and orange, and the seal of NYC contains a windmill, a symbol of the Dutch. The city flag of Philly is light blue and gold, the colors of Sweden.

If there was a European city or cities that I can think of that's closest to Philly, it's London (for the British colonists), Paris (for the museums along the Parkway, which was modeled after the Champs Elysees), and maybe a sprinkling of Rome (due to the Sports Complex and the Italians that live in South Philly).

[chris08876]

Pic by me. Taken this morning.

Any expansion near University City is going to do wonders for the look via the South.