LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 6.0

[caligrad]

At the end of the day I feel downtown has the most potential of any downtown in the US to be something really cool with the right political leadership who wants to see it happen. Road diets, cutting off Broadway to car traffic, turning those old theaters into venues/bars/clubs/stores, TONS of potential for new Construction. It's just a never-ending waiting game. It's easy to blame developers when they cancel projects or shave off a few floors but I've seen the miles of red tape that stretches all the way to the moon and back. Get the red tape out of the way, let developers build accordingly and Downtown will turn into something we thought we'd never see.

[ChelseaFC]

Originally Posted by caligrad

At the end of the day I feel downtown has the most potential of any downtown in the US to be something really cool with the right political leadership who wants to see it happen. Road diets, cutting off Broadway to car traffic, turning those old theaters into venues/bars/clubs/stores, TONS of potential for new Construction. It's just a never-ending waiting game. It's easy to blame developers when they cancel projects or shave off a few floors but I've seen the miles of red tape that stretches all the way to the moon and back. Get the red tape out of the way, let developers build accordingly and Downtown will turn into something we thought we'd never see.

Absolutely has tons of potential but in my opinion we are unlikely to see that potential realized in my lifetime (I'm a millenial). Maybe my grandchildren will if I'm lucky enough to have some one day. If I'm wrong, it will be a pleasant surprise.

[craigs]

I'm more optimistic about downtown's prospects. As the only part of the Southland where epic-scale housing production is currently possible, and in a time when regional demand for housing continues unabated, I see a lot of new projects coming online in the next decade or so. As soon as interest rates and materials costs fall sufficiently, and especially if we make permitting easier and quicker, I expect to see a ton of new proposals.

[edale]

Originally Posted by craigs

I'm more optimistic about downtown's prospects. As the only part of the Southland where epic-scale housing production is currently possible, and in a time when regional demand for housing continues unabated, I see a lot of new projects coming online in the next decade or so. As soon as interest rates and materials costs fall sufficiently, and especially if we make permitting easier and quicker, I expect to see a ton of new proposals.

I'm sure downtown will continue to grow its residential population, but I think it's misguided to assume that regional demand for housing will result in unbridled growth downtown.

Of my friend group, I don't think anyone would even consider living downtown. Several years back when I was flirting with the idea of moving downtown, my friend who moved to LA from NYC said something along the lines of "what's the point of living in Los Angeles if you're living in a highrise downtown?" For many people, the whole 'point' of living in SoCal is to have a little house of your own-- where you can enjoy the sun, garden, pool, etc. Obviously that's not attainable for a lot of people, but it still is a prevalent attitude. DTLA attracts a certain subsect of the population, but it can't be expected to fill the housing needs for the region, as many people would never even consider living there.

[scania]

Originally Posted by edale

I'm sure downtown will continue to grow its residential population, but I think it's misguided to assume that regional demand for housing will result in unbridled growth downtown.

Of my friend group, I don't think anyone would even consider living downtown. Several years back when I was flirting with the idea of moving downtown, my friend who moved to LA from NYC said something along the lines of "what's the point of living in Los Angeles if you're living in a highrise downtown?" For many people, the whole 'point' of living in SoCal is to have a little house of your own-- where you can enjoy the sun, garden, pool, etc. Obviously that's not attainable for a lot of people, but it still is a prevalent attitude. DTLA attracts a certain subsect of the population, but it can't be expected to fill the housing needs for the region, as many people would never even consider living there.

And there are a lot of people who would love to live in DTLA. Yes, your friend group might not be interested. But all of these highrises that are built and being are leasing up just as fast as those on the west side. If your interest is not into DTLA, there are a plethora of other neighborhoods one can divulge their interest. I’m not interested in living in Echo Park. But I’m not wasting my time trying to tell the world the reasons why I nor people that I know won’t want to live in Echo Park…how stupid.

[ChelseaFC]

Originally Posted by edale

I'm sure downtown will continue to grow its residential population, but I think it's misguided to assume that regional demand for housing will result in unbridled growth downtown.

Of my friend group, I don't think anyone would even consider living downtown. Several years back when I was flirting with the idea of moving downtown, my friend who moved to LA from NYC said something along the lines of "what's the point of living in Los Angeles if you're living in a highrise downtown?" For many people, the whole 'point' of living in SoCal is to have a little house of your own-- where you can enjoy the sun, garden, pool, etc. Obviously that's not attainable for a lot of people, but it still is a prevalent attitude. DTLA attracts a certain subsect of the population, but it can't be expected to fill the housing needs for the region, as many people would never even consider living there.

This is a great point, it's one of the main reasons Los Angeles and Pasadena developed like they did in the early days. East Coast and Midwesterns wanted a different lifestyle than being crammed together with other people in close proximity. They wanted to have a personal resort of sorts and have their own space, and this mentality is still prevalent and one of the main attractions of life in SoCal.

It's one thing if you're talking about Miami Beach with some amazing ocean views. But a highrise in downtown LA just doesn't have the same cachet. I can see young singles who actually work in a downtown office and don't need a car, but otherwise if you're going to live in a DTLA highrise why not just live in a cheaper city with an arguably nicer downtown. I'm skeptical about whether DTLA can sustain a full time residential population at the levels some people are hoping.

[Quixote]

Why do so many pay such high rents to live in crappy apartment buildings in North Hollywood and Palms when they could save up to buy a home in TX?

Homelessness, real/perceived crime, and high rental prices have more to do with people steering clear of DT, not an aversion to high-rise living (which is still a novelty in LA, anyway).

[craigs]

Originally Posted by edale

Several years back when I was flirting with the idea of moving downtown, my friend who moved to LA from NYC said something along the lines of "what's the point of living in Los Angeles if you're living in a highrise downtown?"

The point of living in a highrise downtown is the same point of living anywhere in LA. The sunny and mild climate, access to the arts and entertainment scene, the bar and restaurant scene, the beaches and mountains, jobs in the industry, a tolerant and diverse social environment, etc. The only difference is the single-family house. Only 39.2% of housing units in Los Angeles are detached, single-family homes. Something else draws and keeps millions of people here.

[BrandonJXN]

Originally Posted by ChelseaFC

Absolutely has tons of potential but in my opinion we are unlikely to see that potential realized in my lifetime (I'm a millenial). Maybe my grandchildren will if I'm lucky enough to have some one day. If I'm wrong, it will be a pleasant surprise.

Being on this forum for 20 years, I remember clearly the days where there was nothing to do in downtown after 5 pm other than go to a Laker game. I remember Mode being the cool hip restaurant and that's it. To see how much DTLA has changed has me optimistic. The Olympics on the horizon could be as transforming to the city even moreso than 1984.

[craigs]

Originally Posted by BrandonJXN

Being on this forum for 20 years, I remember clearly the days where there was nothing to do in downtown after 5 pm other than go to a Laker game. I remember Mode being the cool hip restaurant and that's it. To see how much DTLA has changed has me optimistic. The Olympics on the horizon could be as transforming to the city even moreso than 1984.

Agreed. I moved away from LA in the summer of 2001 and moved back in the summer of 2021, and didn't visit downtown when I came down for holidays or whatever. So when I first went back downtown, two decades' worth of change that you guys lived through one project or store or improvement at a time just hit me all at once. It was like night and day. The fact that downtown has improved in so many ways in the last 20+ years, plus my initial "outsider" perspective, is the foundation of my optimism.

[scania]

I’m not sure what some of you are talking about…North Hollywood is much cheaper than DTLA.


And yes I was once one of those people 15 years ago that thought why even go downtown? But it’s changed tenfold! The growth we’ve seen in the past 10 to 20 years have been amazing. Of course there has been some down sides and a lot of downsides. But let’s not pretend that we realistically imagined high end restaurants, boutiques, and not to mention, expensive apartments. People would’ve thought that no one would spend that kind of money in downtown LA. If you still think people wouldn’t spend that kind of money in the now DTLA…you’re just in denial.

[ChelseaFC]

Originally Posted by BrandonJXN

Being on this forum for 20 years, I remember clearly the days where there was nothing to do in downtown after 5 pm other than go to a Laker game. I remember Mode being the cool hip restaurant and that's it. To see how much DTLA has changed has me optimistic. The Olympics on the horizon could be as transforming to the city even moreso than 1984.

I would love to see it! I'm just not overly optimistic. The Olympics are coming sooner than you think if you want shovels in the ground and a transformed DTLA by 2028. If the homeless and graffiti problems can get under control, it would do a lot for the perceived safety and walkability, especially for families with young children. Until then, SFH in the burbs will be the predominant destination for those folks.

And the thing that's unique about LA is because we have the ocean, which is a huge draw for people who live here, more singles and people with no kids who are looking to move will gravitate towards apartments on the coast than further inland, even though DTLA is showing slow improvement. And even if all the new transit lines are built by 2050 or whatever, LA will still be at its core a car-centric city, which means that towers with limited parking for personal vehicles will inherently cap the ceiling of what DTLA can become. In my opinion at least. If I'm proven wrong though, I'll be extremely happy.

[scania]

I mostly agree…for that reason Santa Monica is one of the most expensive rental areas in the country. Also, LA is a city that’s drastically spread out and I don’t see a rail line in the foreseeable future that will accommodate going from Santa Monica to the Hollywood Sign, and then from there to let’s say Malibu. To really enjoy LA, no matter where you live, a car will be necessary. When some people on here pretend that these new developments in DTLA shouldn’t have parking…it’s ludicrous.

[craigs]

Even if we agree for the sake of argument that families with young children will not live in a downtown highrise, it is still true that families with young children are a dwindling minority of home buyers/renters. There are far, far more potential buyers/renters from other demographics. I'm of the "build it and they will come" approach: if the price, quality, and amenities appeal to those buyers, they'll live in a highrise downtown. And yes--parking. Even in San Francisco (where I lived from 2001 to 2020), big new residential towers have parking.

[ajbeaver25]

I feel like blaming this on developers or the lack of public transport is missing the real issue. I strongly believe this comes from the surplus of homelessness and drug abuse. I love downtown LA, but I will admit that south of Figueroa it feels like a bit of an apocalypse. I don't blame restaurant owners for not wanting to move to downtown if they are going to face severe safety concerns. Same with developers, why would they invest in the nightlife, if it's going to get trashed by the homeless? Even after the subway system is complete, until they can lower crime, I don't think it will solve any issues. I am optimistic for the future, but I think cookie cutter residential developments are makeshift band aids for the real problem, cleaning skid row.

[scania]

Again…you have Apple, Adidas, Urban Outfitters, Vans, Aesop, Maestro’s, Javier, H&M, Zara, etc etc etc. what are these businesses that won’t move/open in DTLA? You guys sound crazy!!! I’m sorry that we don’t have an Olive Garden or Buffalo Wild Wings in DTLA. Hahahahahahaha

[ajbeaver25]

Originally Posted by scania

Again…you have Apple, Adidas, Urban Outfitters, Vans, Aesop, Maestro’s, Javier, H&M, Zara, etc etc etc. what are these businesses that won’t move/open in DTLA? You guys sound crazy!!! I’m sorry that we don’t have an Olive Garden or Buffalo Wild Wings in DTLA. Hahahahahahaha

I understand what you are saying, but these are all stores located in a few retail hotspots. What brings atmosphere isn't commercial stores, but restaurants, clubs, bars, venues, etc. Culture comes from the local places not the big business stores like Macy's. Regardless, most of downtown LA storefronts are vacant. Just because The Bloc and Broadway has a few stores doesn't make all of downtown LA vibrant.

Clearly something is lacking (homeless, retail, public transport, residential units, or something else) since the streets are still missing normal people.

[scania]

Originally Posted by ajbeaver25

I understand what you are saying, but these are all stores located in a few retail hotspots. What brings atmosphere isn't commercial stores, but restaurants, clubs, bars, venues, etc. Culture comes from the local places not the big business stores like Macy's. Regardless, most of downtown LA storefronts are vacant. Just because The Bloc and Broadway has a few stores doesn't make all of downtown LA vibrant.

Clearly something is lacking (homeless, retail, public transport, residential units, or something else) since the streets are still missing normal people.

Fair and totally unfair. Brick and motors are in decline in general. Are we now going to pretend that Santa Monica Promenade doesn’t have storefronts that are vacant??? Or that Rodeo/Beverly Hills, has more vacancies than ever before. IMO, some of these statements are absurd. Let’s talk about bars and clubs….DTLA has reached pre-Covid and now surpassed as whole pre-Covid. I’m one that frequents the nightlife. I can surely tell you that WeHo hasn’t reached the pre 2020. The same for Hollywood. I’m not saying those areas are not full of nightlife…it just hasn’t reached pre 2020.

[craigs]

Originally Posted by ajbeaver25

Regardless, most of downtown LA storefronts are vacant.

Link?