Does Toronto have the same magnetic pull among Canadians that NYC has for Americans?

[Docere]

I can only find province of birth by province and not metro area.

Ontario

Newfoundland 76,505 0.5%
Maritimes 176,870 1.3%
Quebec 320,660 2.3%
Manitoba 78,150 0.6%
Saskatchewan 44,835 0.3%
Alberta 97,835 0.7%
BC 86,905 0.6%

Alberta

Newfoundland 51,475 1.2%
Maritimes 87,715 2.1%
Quebec 58,535 1.4%
Ontario 230,970 5.5%
Manitoba 98,650 2.4%
Saskatchewan 214,970 5.1%
BC 184,455 4.4%

British Columbia

Newfoundland 17,045 0.3%
Maritimes 53,780 1.1%
Quebec 73,620 1.5%
Ontario 286,295 5.8%
Manitoba 107,055 2.2%
Saskatchewan 126,210 2.6%
Alberta 277,095 5.6%

[raggedy13]

Originally Posted by Nite

By Canadian standards that is large. Most Canadian would consider Vancouver in the early 90's a large Canadian city.
They are in the same population range as cities like Liverpool, Dublin, Amsterdam, Copenhagen, Valencia, Turin, Porto, Marseille, Helsinki
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...European_Union

Contrary to what most think Canada has a lot of large cities (over 1.5 million). Besides the US I don't think any other developed country has more than 6 cities larger than 1.5 million.

Based on the list you provided, it looks like Germany has 6 over 1.5 million:

• Ruhr
• Berlin
• Cologne
• Hamburg
• Munich
• Frankfurt

Japan also appears to have 10 over 1.5 million.

But to your point, Canada does do surprising well considering it has about half the population of Germany, one-third that of Japan, and less than many other large developed countries with fewer large cities.

[raggedy13]

Originally Posted by Docere

I can only find province of birth by province and not metro area.

Ontario

Newfoundland 76,505 0.5%
Maritimes 176,870 1.3%
Quebec 320,660 2.3%
Manitoba 78,150 0.6%
Saskatchewan 44,835 0.3%
Alberta 97,835 0.7%
BC 86,905 0.6%

Alberta

Newfoundland 51,475 1.2%
Maritimes 87,715 2.1%
Quebec 58,535 1.4%
Ontario 230,970 5.5%
Manitoba 98,650 2.4%
Saskatchewan 214,970 5.1%
BC 184,455 4.4%

British Columbia

Newfoundland 17,045 0.3%
Maritimes 53,780 1.1%
Quebec 73,620 1.5%
Ontario 286,295 5.8%
Manitoba 107,055 2.2%
Saskatchewan 126,210 2.6%
Alberta 277,095 5.6%

I think Western Canada - BC and Alberta particularly - have been more of a draw for Canadians than Toronto is for the rest of the country, as these numbers suggest. BC has a lifestyle draw and Alberta has the true economic draw.

In BC, there are certainly people who move to Toronto, for school and specific jobs, but I don't think it's the draw it once was, especially given the high cost of living. People in BC are more interested in moving somewhere they can afford to live, which is most often more affordable cities and towns in BC or moving to Alberta, which tends to have higher incomes and cheaper real estate.

[Crawford]

Not sure Ruhr would be considered a city by most. It's obviously a heavily developed, urbanized area, but there's no central city and almost all the cities have differing identities and are physically separated by protected woodlands. But yeah, it's the biggest German population center, by far.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

While there is no doubt some truth to this - Toronto's stature domestically (and perhaps, internationally) is larger than ever - I'm also curious as to how this squares up in the face of record-breaking emigration from Canada in 2023, record-breaking out-migration from Toronto & Ontario, and reports that 40% of Ontarians are "considering" leaving the province entirely.

The rapid growth of Toronto in recent years has likely caused more new problems than it's solved, and has come at the expense of the city's quality of life; arguably leaving it as a less attractive place to live. Young Canadians will continue to flock to it, but will be less likely to build long-term lives & businesses there; while a weak economy and no real competitive advantage on the cost-of-living front will drive the best-and-brightest to opt to go the US or abroad in increasing numbers. After a few decades of improvement on this front, Canada's brain drain is getting worse - not better.

Quite right on all counts. The exodus of Canadians from Toronto for more affordable housing and better quality of life is a fairly recent phenomenon but very real. It boosted population growth in cities like KW, London, and Halifax. Toronto still grew very quickly because the out migration was more than made up by even larger in-migration from foreigners. You see a similar pattern in London UK. Toronto's continued growth isn't guaranteed though.

If Toronto wants to continue rising it will need to address the many mounting problems it faces. It doesn't have the high paying jobs of New York, San Francisco, or Seattle. With very middling wages, a large chunk of people will eventually give up and leave for more affordable places. Standard of living/quality of life are deteriorating while social problems get worse: lots of homelessness, rising crime, and so many aggressive unhinged people.

There's massive investment in PT but commutes and congestion will get worse before it will get better. Urbanization efforts (bike lanes, wider sidewalks, fewer car lanes) are painfully slow. Same goes for green space. They're getting built but they all seem to get rammed with people and dogs the second they open. Grass/trees can only handle do much dog sh*t and urine.

As well as Toronto has managed its growth the last 20 years (a ton more could have gone wrong), I'm not confident Toronto is up to the task of solving the problems it's now facing. I've been in Toronto since 2001 but having been scoping out other places (southern Ontario, Vancouver Island, Maritimes). I love Toronto but things have hit a tipping point.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Quite right on all counts. The exodus of Canadians from Toronto for more affordable housing and better quality of life is a fairly recent phenomenon but very real. It boosted population growth in cities like KW, London, and Halifax...With very middling wages, a large chunk of people will eventually give up and leave for more affordable places. Standard of living/quality of life are deteriorating while social problems get worse: homelessness crime, so many aggressive unhinged people...

...I'm not sure this city is up to the task of solving the problems it's now facing. I've been in Toronto since 2001 but having been scoping out other places to move to (southern Ontario, Vancouver Island, Maritimes).

An important thing to keep in mind is that even if Toronto's affordability and social problems have gotten worse, the affordability and social problems of midsized cities in Ontario - the kinds of places where people who were fed up with Toronto would have decamped to - have gotten dramatically worse.

Toronto isn't the only place with homeless encampments, drug overdoses and spiraling rents. You can find that in places like Belleville, that don't have good jobs, good salaries, or big city amenities. This is the kind of city where, 10 years ago, you could buy a detached house for $200,000 and everybody - even the poorest of the poor - could at least find a place to rent.

[MolsonExport]

Quite right on all counts. The exodus of Canadians from Toronto for more affordable housing and better quality of life is a fairly recent phenomenon but very real. It boosted population growth in cities like KW, London, and Halifax. Toronto still grew very quickly because the out migration was more than made up by even larger in-migration from foreigners. You see a similar pattern in London UK. Toronto's continued growth isn't guaranteed though.

Probably the same story, in the present and/or in decades past, for many primary cities in Western countries.

-New York and Los Angeles
-Paris
-London (UK)
-Sydney and Melbourne

New York has been in this situation since...well, probably for more than a century.