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  #2321  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2024, 9:23 AM
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For refugees there's no usually no realistic legal way to enter other countries.

Even if every asylum seeker was allowed to stay (they aren't) that's not even close to what an open border is.

The problem is that people need asylum, not that they showed up some way that Post Media says should make us mad.

You need to take a deep breath. I know this board is astroturfed to shit and this is what the right very badly wants us to think, but you're arguing that we have to be fascist so the fascists don't. That's a loss either way.

And it's done nothing to head off the fascists in Europe or the US. Fascists, remember, don't care about reality.



Anyway, I'd love to see some statistics Canada reports instead of more politics.


Why is the Canada board SSP's uniquely off-topic dumpster fire anyway? Americans get sent to the Current Events section when they try to ruin other boards.
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  #2322  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2024, 9:51 AM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biguc View Post
For refugees there's no usually no realistic legal way to enter other countries.

Even if every asylum seeker was allowed to stay (they aren't) that's not even close to what an open border is.

The problem is that people need asylum, not that they showed up some way that Post Media says should make us mad.

You need to take a deep breath. I know this board is astroturfed to shit and this is what the right very badly wants us to think, but you're arguing that we have to be fascist so the fascists don't. That's a loss either way.

And it's done nothing to head off the fascists in Europe or the US. Fascists, remember, don't care about reality.
Canada is not adjacent to any refugee source country. Canada is not within small craft sailing distance of any refugee source country. Individuals able to walk across the border have paid thousands or tens of thousands for flights, people smugglers, etc. They have passed through numerous safe countries where they should have made their claims according to international law. They are not refugees in any normal understanding of the word. They are economic migrants who are taking advantage of loopholes in Canadian law.

The worst part is, by rewarding human trafficker's, Canada is taking far fewer actual refugees (i.e. people who presented themselves to the UNHCR in the first safe country).

Last edited by acottawa; Sep 30, 2024 at 10:06 AM.
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  #2323  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2024, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biguc View Post
For refugees there's no usually no realistic legal way to enter other countries.

Even if every asylum seeker was allowed to stay (they aren't) that's not even close to what an open border is.

The problem is that people need asylum, not that they showed up some way that Post Media says should make us mad.

You need to take a deep breath. I know this board is astroturfed to shit and this is what the right very badly wants us to think, but you're arguing that we have to be fascist so the fascists don't. That's a loss either way.

And it's done nothing to head off the fascists in Europe or the US. Fascists, remember, don't care about reality.



Anyway, I'd love to see some statistics Canada reports instead of more politics.


Why is the Canada board SSP's uniquely off-topic dumpster fire anyway? Americans get sent to the Current Events section when they try to ruin other boards.
What the European and US examples actually show us is that calling everyone racist and wishing the unpleasant conversations away doesn’t prevent those conversations from happening.
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  #2324  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2024, 1:31 PM
lio45 lio45 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biguc View Post
For refugees there's no usually no realistic legal way to enter other countries.

Even if every asylum seeker was allowed to stay (they aren't) that's not even close to what an open border is.

The problem is that people need asylum, not that they showed up some way that Post Media says should make us mad.

You need to take a deep breath. I know this board is astroturfed to shit and this is what the right very badly wants us to think, but you're arguing that we have to be fascist so the fascists don't. That's a loss either way.

And it's done nothing to head off the fascists in Europe or the US. Fascists, remember, don't care about reality.



Anyway, I'd love to see some statistics Canada reports instead of more politics.


Why is the Canada board SSP's uniquely off-topic dumpster fire anyway? Americans get sent to the Current Events section when they try to ruin other boards.
FYI, “OMG, we’re importing over a million FNSs per year, WTF!” is 100% a Statistics Canada Reports topic — as well as politics too.

This is THE best thread (in terms of closeness to the topic) to discuss our crazy population growth rates. (The “Housing Crisis” and the “Federal Politics” threads, it would also be mostly on topic in those.)
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  #2325  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2024, 3:18 PM
P'tit Renard P'tit Renard is offline
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Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
Canada is not adjacent to any refugee source country. Canada is not within small craft sailing distance of any refugee source country. Individuals able to walk across the border have paid thousands or tens of thousands for flights, people smugglers, etc. They have passed through numerous safe countries where they should have made their claims according to international law. They are not refugees in any normal understanding of the word. They are economic migrants who are taking advantage of loopholes in Canadian law.

The worst part is, by rewarding human trafficker's, Canada is taking far fewer actual refugees (i.e. people who presented themselves to the UNHCR in the first safe country).
Exactly, especially when the greatest number of asylum applications in year-to-date 2024 come from India and Bangladesh, two democracies that are currently not facing the catastrophic consequences of war from a belligerent neighbour.

Asylum Claims By Indians At Canadian Airports Surge by Over 500%
https://immigrationnewscanada.ca/ind...dian-airports/
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  #2326  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2024, 4:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acottawa View Post
Canada is not adjacent to any refugee source country. Canada is not within small craft sailing distance of any refugee source country. Individuals able to walk across the border have paid thousands or tens of thousands for flights, people smugglers, etc. They have passed through numerous safe countries where they should have made their claims according to international law. They are not refugees in any normal understanding of the word. They are economic migrants who are taking advantage of loopholes in Canadian law.

The worst part is, by rewarding human trafficker's, Canada is taking far fewer actual refugees (i.e. people who presented themselves to the UNHCR in the first safe country).
Exactly. There is no possible way any person crossing into Canada illegally can ever be said to be a legitimate refugee who deserves asylum. Asylum seekers must make their claim in the first safe country, which for anyone crossing by land from the USA, would be the USA. Hence why the only logical response is to enforce the border and bar them from entry.

When people were showing up at Roxham Road the RCMP was literally holding their hands to help them cross the ditch to enter Canada illegally. Complete insanity. The correct response from the RCMP would be to follow these steps:

1. Warn these people that they cannot legally enter Canada and they must file their asylum claim in the United States. Make sure there's interpreters at the border so people can understand this in their languages.

2. If they try to enter anyway, use force to prevent their illegal crossing, according to standard escalation protocols (start with gentle nudging or pushing before escalating to weapons).

We already updated the Safe Third Country Agreement with the USA to allow the immediate return of illegal crossers to the USA, so Roxham Road has been closed. There is a loophole where if people enter Canada undetected they can still make asylum claims. IMO, we should update the agreement again to specify that any asylum claimant for whom there is no record of them entering by air is presumed to have illegally crossed from the USA and is subject to return to the USA. In exchange, we should commit to taking in 10% of all refugees whose claims are accepted by the USA - our per capita share of the burden. We can also make a financial contribution, on a similar ratio, to the cost of deportation of failed claimants from the USA.
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  #2327  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2024, 4:31 PM
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Originally Posted by biguc View Post
Even if every asylum seeker was allowed to stay (they aren't) that's not even close to what an open border is.
What percentage of rejected asylum claimants are actually getting deported, as opposed to being "regularized" and allowed to stay anyway under the government's latest insane policy?
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  #2328  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2024, 5:03 PM
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lots of circling of the wagons
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  #2329  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2024, 8:35 PM
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I looked back and noticed this thread began to be derailed by the suggestion of deporting of 750,000 people. Perhaps we take a step back and still the flutters we get from talking about it and just put the matter to rest. Back to the descriptivist numbers (statistics), please.
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  #2330  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2024, 9:58 PM
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Originally Posted by P'tit Renard View Post
Exactly, especially when the greatest number of asylum applications in year-to-date 2024 come from India and Bangladesh, two democracies that are currently not facing the catastrophic consequences of war from a belligerent neighbour.

Asylum Claims By Indians At Canadian Airports Surge by Over 500%
https://immigrationnewscanada.ca/ind...dian-airports/
I wonder if there are any published stats on the percentage of claims accepted/rejected from these countries?
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  #2331  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2024, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by 1overcosc View Post
What percentage of rejected asylum claimants are actually getting deported, as opposed to being "regularized" and allowed to stay anyway under the government's latest insane policy?
I stand to be corrected, but I believe the correct answer would be "zero". They are allowed to stay for appeal processes that can take years.
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  #2332  
Old Posted Sep 30, 2024, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by kwoldtimer View Post
I wonder if there are any published stats on the percentage of claims accepted/rejected from these countries?
https://www.irb-cisr.gc.ca/en/statis...DStat2023.aspx

Stats for 2023 from IRCC. Accepted cases for both countries are higher than rejected, so the acceptance rate is quite high. This is before accounting for the significant increase in claims from those two South Asian countries in 2024.
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  #2333  
Old Posted Oct 1, 2024, 3:17 AM
acottawa acottawa is offline
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https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...rate-1.7338374

Canada records its lowest fertility rate for 2nd year: StatsCan

B.C. has lowest rate among provinces and territories, with rate of 1 child per woman in 2023, agency says
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  #2334  
Old Posted Oct 4, 2024, 9:30 PM
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new Permanent residents (immigrants) by Metro Area in 2023, top 10

New York: 169,180
Toronto: 135,950
Miami: 95,290
Los Angeles: 72,960 (over 89,000 if you include Inland Empire)
Vancouver: 54,915
Houston: 45,280
Washington: 40,310
Montreal: 38,420
Dallas: 38,110
San Francisco: 34,670 (over 55,000 if you include San Jose)

Chicago notably misses the cut
Calgary, though not on the list, is getting as many immigrants as much bigger Boston or Seattle

US government, 2023 Yearbook of Immigration Statistics, Table 5
https://ohss.dhs.gov/topics/immigrat...e-data-heading

Canada government, Open Data, Permanent Residents by Province/Territory and Census Metropolitan Area (CMA)
https://open.canada.ca/data/en/datas...9-9b8aff9b9eda
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  #2335  
Old Posted Oct 5, 2024, 5:20 AM
rdaner rdaner is offline
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Great! Now I wonder what the number of immigrants to Canadian metro regions is when you use comparable boundaries to US counterparts?
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  #2336  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2024, 2:43 AM
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Originally Posted by rdaner View Post
Great! Now I wonder what the number of immigrants to Canadian metro regions is when you use comparable boundaries to US counterparts?

For that you can basically add the Abbotsford CMA to Vancouver's CMA, and the Hamilton & Oshawa CMAs to Toronto's. In which case you get 145,420 for the GTHA and 57,715 for the Lower Mainland (no change to ranking). Most of the other CMAs wouldn't really change much by using American metro standards.
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  #2337  
Old Posted Oct 6, 2024, 3:06 AM
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Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin View Post
For that you can basically add the Abbotsford CMA to Vancouver's CMA, and the Hamilton & Oshawa CMAs to Toronto's. In which case you get 145,420 for the GTHA and 57,715 for the Lower Mainland (no change to ranking). Most of the other CMAs wouldn't really change much by using American metro standards.
+Barrie/KW/Niagara CMA to the GTA.
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  #2338  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2024, 2:35 PM
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Just looking at the population clock and I could have sworn that BC had not yet reached 5.7M but is now showing 5.765. Adjustments made?
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  #2339  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2024, 3:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Mishpet1 View Post
Just looking at the population clock and I could have sworn that BC had not yet reached 5.7M but is now showing 5.765. Adjustments made?
Yes. Adjustments seem to be made on at least a monthly basis, if not more frequently. They knocked NB back by about 6,000.
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  #2340  
Old Posted Oct 7, 2024, 7:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Mishpet1 View Post
Just looking at the population clock and I could have sworn that BC had not yet reached 5.7M but is now showing 5.765. Adjustments made?
The much-forecasted death spiral of BC's population has still yet to emerge.
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