[Saint John] Port Development

[cdnguys]

Is MSC leaving Saint John after November? Hearing rumours they are due to purchase of stake in PSL Halifax. Then others are saying no, they are staying.

[FromMaine]

That deal is done as of August, it met before the competition board and "sailed through" without issue. Rumor has it MSC is going to make life difficult for other steamship lines at Halifax from here on out...


Also lastly, Port of Montreal issued a 3 day strike notice today starting Monday through Thursday. Trying times we live in.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by FromMaine

That deal is done as of August, it met before the competition board and "sailed through" without issue. Rumor has it MSC is going to make life difficult for other steamship lines at Halifax from here on out...


Also lastly, Port of Montreal issued a 3 day strike notice today starting Monday through Thursday. Trying times we live in.

Can you explain more - how they would make it more difficult and could that mean lines calling on SJ instead?

[sailor734]

Is this likely to have any impact on traffic to Canadian ports?

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3vkdp3rx17o

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Is this likely to have any impact on traffic to Canadian ports?

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c3vkdp3rx17o

With inflation front and centre of the election campaign, I can’t imagine Biden will let the strike go on too long.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

With inflation front and centre of the election campaign, I can’t imagine Biden will let the strike go on too long.

Yes, but does he want to alienate the labour movement right now either? Dems are already seeing support slipping from this traditionally strong part of their base.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Yes, but does he want to alienate the labour movement right now either? Dems are already seeing support slipping from this traditionally strong part of their base.

I’m sure they have the best thinkers in the world weighing in on this. I’d love to see a couple ships divert to here.

[cdnguys]

Appears we are getting diversions to port. MSC ANNICK TAMARA SANDRA unless these are replacements for other ships.

[CharlotteCountyLogan]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

Appears we are getting diversions to port. MSC ANNICK TAMARA SANDRA unless these are replacements for other ships.

I just checked the MSC schedule and those ships usually do Halifax and Montreal on the Med Canadian service. Both are still on the schedule. Wonder why it's coming to SJ. Maybe to see if SJ is a suitable replacement for Montreal?

[cdnguys]

Also showing MSC Lisa and Nahara. Seems like a stop now on sched for all ships on that route until Nov 11

[cdnguys]

[Ottawa]

An MSC customer advisory from Oct. 2:

LOW WATER SURCHARGE TRADE FROM WMED, ADRIATIC, ISRAEL AND NORTH EUROPE (INC. UK AND SCAN BALTIC) TO CANADA
02/10/2024

St. Lawrence River water levels are significantly reducing the tonnage deployed on the trade from West Mediterranean, Adriatic, Israel and North Europe (including UK and Scan Baltic) to Montreal.

For this reason, MSC Mediterranean Shipping Company announces the implementation of a low water surcharge “Saint-Laurent low water” (SLW) for any equipment size and type moving from West Mediterranean, Adriatic, Israel and North Europe (inc. UK and Scan Baltic) to Montreal POD, effective as from 15 October 2024 until further notice.

The SLW will be charged as follows:
• USD 150 - per 20’ container
• USD 300 - per 40’ and 45’ container

https://www.msc.com/en/newsroom/cust...ater-surcharge

[PSJ harbour]

I think MSC is switching to an East/West trade in Saint John, and not a North/South trade.

[sailor734]

That didn't last long.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/03/busin...eal/index.html

[Ottawa]

That's good. Strikes are short term and rarely produce any changes to existing business arrangements. We have real growth coming in now. MSC, Gemini, and two additional cranes to be setup and working in under 4 months. We need to focus on that and not events that are unlikely to produce any long term results here.

BTW, 62% over 6 years? That is why this business is so desirable. They got that settlement because they are worth it. And that is because the business is worth it.

[Ottawa]

@

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by Ottawa

That's good. Strikes are short term and rarely produce any changes to existing business arrangements. We have real growth coming in now. MSC, Gemini, and two additional cranes to be setup and working in under 4 months. We need to focus on that and not events that are unlikely to produce any long term results here.

BTW, 62% over 6 years? That is why this business is so desirable. They got that settlement because they are worth it. And that is because the business is worth it.

They're not worth it. North American ports severely lag behind in automation compared to the rest of the world. The bizarre system of 'touches' and 'royalties' is an inhibitor to inland shipping from coastal ports.

[Ottawa]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

They're not worth it. North American ports severely lag behind in automation compared to the rest of the world. The bizarre system of 'touches' and 'royalties' is an inhibitor to inland shipping from coastal ports.

I am not a union guy. What I have seen though are powerful unions putting on display the true state of the economies and the values of the currencies we transact in.

It took the ILA less than 3 days to get 62% over 6 years. That speaks volumes. That is a number that just a very few years ago would never even have been considered realistic. Not anymore. It would have been ridiculed by commentators everywhere. But today, if you honestly evaluate the value of those dollars you're getting paid, virtually everyone has lost considerable purchasing power.

Barely a year ago, the west coast workers got half of what the east coast workers just got. Their deal, which was retroactive to July 1, 2022, included a 32% pay increase over the span of the contract, which was 6 years.

Now the ILA is getting double that.

I don't look at the benefit of the port as how many people work there, but how many jobs are created indirectly because of the access you get living and working in a city with worldwide transportation connections.

Automation is coming. Maybe slower than some would like. But be careful what you wish for as it might be your income next. If you are what could be called an above average income earner in a private business, you may be the next target for automation.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by Ottawa

I am not a union guy. What I have seen though are powerful unions putting on display the true state of the economies and the values of the currencies we transact in.

It took the ILA less than 3 days to get 62% over 6 years. That speaks volumes. That is a number that just a very few years ago would never even have been considered realistic. Not anymore. It would have been ridiculed by commentators everywhere. But today, if you honestly evaluate the value of those dollars you're getting paid, virtually everyone has lost considerable purchasing power.

Barely a year ago, the west coast workers got half of what the east coast workers just got. Their deal, which was retroactive to July 1, 2022, included a 32% pay increase over the span of the contract, which was 6 years.

Now the ILA is getting double that.

I don't look at the benefit of the port as how many people work there, but how many jobs are created indirectly because of the access you get living and working in a city with worldwide transportation connections.

Automation is coming. Maybe slower than some would like. But be careful what you wish for as it might be your income next. If you are what could be called an above average income earner in a private business, you may be the next target for automation.

The ILA has given until Jan 15th to negotiate automation. Interestingly they were vehemently opposed to containerization in the 1950’s into the 1970’s, preferring labor intensive wooden crates and burlap sacks. More efficient ports create more jobs overall, but just not for the longshoreman. Be interesting to see how this plays out, and whether Canadian workers will want parity with US members. My prediction is some automation will be allowed, but the reality is automation would never be fully beneficial in the USA like Asia and Europe because there are no transshipments due to the Jones Act. That’s where you see the benefits of automation the most.

[Ottawa]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

The ILA has given until Jan 15th to negotiate automation. Interestingly they were vehemently opposed to containerization in the 1950’s into the 1970’s, preferring labor intensive wooden crates and burlap sacks. More efficient ports create more jobs overall, but just not for the longshoreman. Be interesting to see how this plays out, and whether Canadian workers will want parity with US members. My prediction is some automation will be allowed, but the reality is automation would never be fully beneficial in the USA like Asia and Europe because there are no transshipments due to the Jones Act. That’s where you see the benefits of automation the most.

I think the ILA is more concerned about the no-strike clause. They want to keep that for "other" issues that they believe might require a strike threat. They will only be dragged kicking and screaming to automation.