Ottawa Senators LeBreton Arena | 11 Acres | In Planning

[LeadingEdgeBoomer]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

I know, but McGill events aren't drawing CFL crowds and those that go to USports games are for the most part right in the area already. I don't have the numbers handy but I bet the Als draw in one game what the university team draws in a season.

I do not know what your point is. The Molson family built the Percival Molson Memorial Stadium many years ago as a gift to McGill. It has been used for sports and recreation by students for decades and still is. There were many years when there was no CFL team playing there, such as when the Als played at the Big Owe (Olympic Stadium).
There was a time when in the mid twentieth century when university football did draw crowds to the stadium. It was when the Little Big Four of McGill. Queen's, Toronto and Western had a league of their own and their rivalry was fierce.
Unfortunately ,university sports does not draw as well they should these days. There are exceptions, such as the Panda Game (24,000 fans in 2023) and a couple of weeks ago the the University of Montreal rivalry with Laval University drew 20,903 fans to Peps Stadium in Quebec City.

I am sure McGill enjoys the rent they get from the Als for using the stadium.

Edit: Peps is now known as Stade Telus because Telus bought the naming rights.

[AuxTown]

Not sure if this has been shared before but I saw this on Reddit:


Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/OttawaSenators/...resting_map_to_understand_just_how_game/

Not only do I love the arena name but you can't argue with these stats, this arena will be closer and likely more convenient for the vast majority of Sens fans.

[rocketphish]

Thankfully missing from the latest Ottawa Senators-NCC deal — big egos
This time, there are no battling egos among the ownership team to scuttle the downtown arena plan.

Mohammed Adam, Ottawa Citizen
Published Sep 26, 2024 • Last updated 3 hours ago • 3 minute read

Dare to dream, Ottawa.

The most anticipated announcement in Ottawa for months was not Prime Minister Justin’s Trudeau’s potential resignation, as several commentators had been prognosticating. What we had actually been waiting for was whether the long drawn-out negotiations between the National Capital Commission and the Ottawa Senators on a new arena at LeBreton Flats would become reality, or end in tears once again.

So, news last week that the two sides had reached a tentative agreement to allow the Senators to buy 10 acres at LeBreton to build a new rink came as a huge relief. The decision puts past disappointments, including 2019, in the rearview mirror, and now we look forward to building something memorable, a legacy project to transform downtown and enhance the capital’s appeal.

Under the deal, the Senators will not only build a rink but an entertainment district, including bars, restaurants, perhaps a hotel, and on-site parking to create a buzz around the location, and draw in people even when no games are being played. More land is still available, and hopefully someone will see economic value in acquiring it for something like an aquarium or some other attraction.

The cost of the project has not been released, but the first plan, RendezVous LeBreton, which collapsed in 2019, was pegged at $4 billion. That plan, of course, included major housing development, disagreement over which led to the plan’s collapse. Former team owner Eugene Melnyk believed a competing housing project by partner John Rudy would eat into his revenue and undermine his bottom line. The partnership ended in recrimination.

As far as we know, the agreement with new Senators’ owner Michael Andlauer only mentions an entertainment district, not housing specifically. Interestingly, NCC chief executive Tobi Nussbaum said the agreement embodies housing the commission has already planned for the site. “This partnership will build on the development phases already announced as part of the NCC Building LeBreton project that will see 6,000 new housing units with an affordable target of 25 percent,” Nussbaum said.

This means that new homes at LeBreton, whose value has now been highly enhanced by the presence of the arena, would be owned by other builders, not the Senators organization. But that doesn’t seem to be a deal-breaker for Andlauer, who is more focused on the rink.

This being Ottawa, and based on past experience, fissures can appear. But the two sides seem to be on the same page, and, for now, it’s all systems go. “I think it will be different for a whole bunch of reasons,” Senators’ president and CEO Cyril Leeder said. “Most notably, we’re in a position now where everybody wants this to happen … I think the stars are aligned now, and the timing is good.”

What augurs well for the project is that unlike 2019, when there were two feuding partners, there is now only one owner calling the shots. Often in sports, when you have two strong-willed partners running a club, egos often get in the way, causing trouble. When American businessmen George Gillett and Tom Hicks bought English premier league club Liverpool in 2007, they nearly drove the storied club into bankruptcy because they could not agree on a vison. A similar thing is happening at Chelsea football club where owners Todd Boehly and Behdad Eghbaly are locked in a power struggle. That’s not the case here. There’s only one boss.

Of course, there is a long way to go — perhaps five to six years — before an arena is built and the Senators move downtown. The sale of the land won’t be finalized until next year, and then the arena has to be designed, financing secured, a bunch of impact studies completed and planning requirements met. Leeder says he doesn’t expect taxpayers to chip in, but don’t close the door on that as yet.

So, now we wait for all the pieces to fall in place, for the day this arena rises up to add an exciting new dimension to downtown.

Mohammed Adam is an Ottawa journalist and commentator. Reach him at [email protected]

https://ottawacitizen.com/opinion/adam-s...e-ottawa-senators-move-to-lebreton-flats

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by LeadingEdgeBoomer

I do not know what your point is. The Molson family built the Percival Molson Memorial Stadium many years ago as a gift to McGill. It has been used for sports and recreation by students for decades and still is. There were many years when there was no CFL team playing there, such as when the Als played at the Big Owe (Olympic Stadium).
There was a time when in the mid twentieth century when university football did draw crowds to the stadium. It was when the Little Big Four of McGill. Queen's, Toronto and Western had a league of their own and their rivalry was fierce.
Unfortunately ,university sports does not draw as well they should these days. There are exceptions, such as the Panda Game (24,000 fans in 2023) and a couple of weeks ago the the University of Montreal rivalry with Laval University drew 20,903 fans to Peps Stadium in Quebec City.

I am sure McGill enjoys the rent they get from the Als for using the stadium.

Edit: Peps is now known as Stade Telus because Telus bought the naming rights.

Well, ok. You don't understand my point, I don't understand your original reply and what relevance how unique Molson Stadium is to what I said. Maybe want to go back a few days and see what I was replying to that you cherry picked a comment out of to add that history lesson.

Also, yes, in decades gone by, Canadian university football drew more than it does now. That's not news. In those days, the CFL also drew a lot more than it does now and it would have been laughable to suggest that someday the CFL would play at Molson. But that has nothing to do with how people are going to get to a new hockey arena in Ottawa.

[AuxTown]

I think a lot of people are fixated on the potential problems with getting fans to and from this venue, but in so many ways it is WAY better situated than the CTC is currently:

- more people within walking/biking distance
- excellent transit connections with two lines and two major stations (assuming all opens up by then)
- cars that park on site will dissipate in all directions (N-S-E-W)
- tons of underground parking within 1km of the arena in the CBD, many with adjacent LRT access and all with good pedestrian connections to the arena
- a downtown that already absorbs 150000+ commuting workers on any given day so clearly able to handle 20000 for a concert or sporting event

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by hwy418

There's no chance parking will be on surface with only 10 acres to play with. They have 75 acres in Kanata.

That is a good point. According to geoOttawa, the property parcel that the CTC is on (1000 Palladium Dr, bounded by Paladium Dr, Huntmar Dr, Cyclone Taylor Blvd. and Frank Fling Way) is about 16 acres (6.62 ha) and doing some rough measurements, the CTC building itself occupies just under 5 acres of that.

[hwy418]

Originally Posted by roger1818

That is a good point. According to geoOttawa, the property parcel that the CTC is on (1000 Palladium Dr, bounded by Paladium Dr, Huntmar Dr, Cyclone Taylor Blvd. and Frank Fling Way) is about 16 acres (6.62 ha) and doing some rough measurements, the CTC building itself occupies just under 5 acres of that.

If you include the parking lots parcels in addition to the parcel the CTC is on, it totals just over 66 acres (parking totals 49.8 acres!). Also, there's another 10.7 acres on Maplegrove for the Bell Sensplex and another two parcels in between the CTC and BSP that is another 61 acres. I recall Capital Sports Management was proposing a new soccer stadium on those latter parcels, so I'm pretty sure they own that too. Grand total of about 137 acres!

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by AuxTown

I think a lot of people are fixated on the potential problems with getting fans to and from this venue, but in so many ways it is WAY better situated than the CTC is currently:

- more people within walking/biking distance
- excellent transit connections with two lines and two major stations (assuming all opens up by then)
- cars that park on site will dissipate in all directions (N-S-E-W)
- tons of underground parking within 1km of the arena in the CBD, many with adjacent LRT access and all with good pedestrian connections to the arena
- a downtown that already absorbs 150000+ commuting workers on any given day so clearly able to handle 20000 for a concert or sporting event

Exactly this. I think your last point is the one that needs to be emphasized the most because a lot of people don't seem to be considering that option, in favour of getting fixated on how they're going to drive right up to the arena's front doors.

[roger1818]

Originally Posted by hwy418

If you include the parking lots parcels in addition to the parcel the CTC is on, it totals just over 66 acres (parking totals 49.8 acres!). Also, there's another 10.7 acres on Maplegrove for the Bell Sensplex and another two parcels in between the CTC and BSP that is another 61 acres. I recall Capital Sports Management was proposing a new soccer stadium on those latter parcels, so I'm pretty sure they own that too. Grand total of about 137 acres!

Agreed. My point was that the parcel that the CTC is on has minimal parking and it is 60% larger than the LeBreton parcel. I'll post a map later.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Agreed. My point was that the parcel that the CTC is on has minimal parking and it is 60% larger than the LeBreton parcel. I'll post a map later.

Yes google says an acre allows +/- 150 parking spots so they aren't fitting a lot of surface parking lots in any scenario.

[DTcrawler]

In the press conference and subsequent interviews they've seemed to imply that parking will be a transitional amenity as people get used to the new location and development intensifies. As such I wonder if there's a scenario where the NCC allows the Sens to have some temporary gravel surface parking on land that the Sens don't own but also isn't being immediately developed by the NCC. And as that land gets developed, parking gets reduced until all that remains is whatever the Sens have built on their own land, likely underground and limited to players, staff, VIPs, and maybe some STH's.

Then again, another aspect of the deal was that the Sens will be pushing for the NCC to develop other parcels in unison with the arena to have amenities like restaurants/bars in place sooner. So maybe any potential parcels for temporary surface parking will be scarce.

In any case I just don't see a need for the average fan to be parking at Lebreton itself. Even if you must drive 90% of the way, park in an underground garage in the CBD and take Line 1 couple of stops over. Carleton U's massive lots on Line 2 are another option. And the bonus is that ingress/egress out of any of these lots will be much, much smoother than the situation that exists today at the CTC, where the 90%(?) of fans who've arrived by car are all trying to get onto the same street.

[hwy418]

Originally Posted by roger1818

Agreed. My point was that the parcel that the CTC is on has minimal parking and it is 60% larger than the LeBreton parcel. I'll post a map later.

Ah ok, I understand your point. I fully expect they will have most of their available on-site parking (limited compared to the current site) underground.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

In the press conference and subsequent interviews they've seemed to imply that parking will be a transitional amenity as people get used to the new location and development intensifies. As such I wonder if there's a scenario where the NCC allows the Sens to have some temporary gravel surface parking on land that the Sens don't own but also isn't being immediately developed by the NCC. And as that land gets developed, parking gets reduced until all that remains is whatever the Sens have built on their own land, likely underground and limited to players, staff, VIPs, and maybe some STH's.

Then again, another aspect of the deal was that the Sens will be pushing for the NCC to develop other parcels in unison with the arena to have amenities like restaurants/bars in place sooner. So maybe any potential parcels for temporary surface parking will be scarce.

In any case I just don't see a need for the average fan to be parking at Lebreton itself. Even if you must drive 90% of the way, park in an underground garage in the CBD and take Line 1 couple of stops over. Carleton U's massive lots on Line 2 are another option. And the bonus is that ingress/egress out of any of these lots will be much, much smoother than the situation that exists today at the CTC, where the 90%(?) of fans who've arrived by car are all trying to get onto the same street.

This is porobably accurate. There is also a lot of potential parking to the north in Zibi and even Portage and environs for those who'd rather walk than fight traffic before and after.

[ponyboycurtis]

Originally Posted by AuxTown

I think a lot of people are fixated on the potential problems with getting fans to and from this venue, but in so many ways it is WAY better situated than the CTC is currently:

- more people within walking/biking distance
- excellent transit connections with two lines and two major stations (assuming all opens up by then)
- cars that park on site will dissipate in all directions (N-S-E-W)
- tons of underground parking within 1km of the arena in the CBD, many with adjacent LRT access and all with good pedestrian connections to the arena
- a downtown that already absorbs 150000+ commuting workers on any given day so clearly able to handle 20000 for a concert or sporting event

Regarding your last bullet point I think there will definitely be some people who choose to stick around after work, get dinner somewhere and then attend the game. How exactly that would play out with transportation I couldn't say. Getting a restaurant/entertainment district around the arena would be quite helpful in this regard. Currently only Preston street makes sense for foot traffic.

If I worked somewhere in the overall downtown area and had tickets to a 7/730pm game I would be inclined to stick around. This would be assuming I am going with/meeting friends. I guess family would be a different ball game. Would a parent drive home/scoop up their family and drive back? Would I stick around and other parent gets the kids together and takes transit or drives? I feel like driving out of downtown just to drive back sounds unappealing. Ditto for transit.

It certainly begs some questions. If I was running the Senators day to day operations as the next couple seasons go by I would conduct surveys. Where do you live and how often do you expect to goto games, do you consume alchohol/food etc. How do you plan on getting to and from. Who do you usually attend games with and what size is your party?

My friend has an advertising company and I have participated in these types of surveys. I got paid in my case.

If the Sens offered a $25 voucher at the merch shop at CTC imagine how much data they could collect over a couple seasons and probably make a pile of money off of it as well. (probably need a $100 minimum purchase)

I'm curious if they will still run 400 busses. I'm trying to think of routes that would make sense.

Blair/Montreal rd and then perhaps Somerset or Gladstone to Preston?

Billings/Bank st?

Lincoln Fields/Carling to Preston?

Building an Arena with minimal parking plunked in between two unconnected train stations is definitely missing some data points. I would like to see a plan on the routing to get to and from the Arena.

Does anyone know the exact placement of the Arena in regards to the LRT line and Albert st? Does it get sandwiched in between? Is part of the LRT getting decked over?

I'm wondering if everyone is going to be walking down either Albert st, or the pathway in behind or both.

Decking over part of the LRT to allow full passage all the way around 365 days a year seems like a win to me.

[acottawa]

Even on office days, the vast majority of bureaucrats are done work at 4:30. Eating/drinking for three hours before the game does not seem like a viable strategy. It works in cities where people work until 6, but you could shoot a cannon in downtown Ottawa at 6 and not worry about hitting anyone.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Even on office days, the vast majority of bureaucrats are done work at 4:30. Eating/drinking for three hours before the game does not seem like a viable strategy. It works in cities where people work until 6, but you could shoot a cannon in downtown Ottawa at 6 and not worry about hitting anyone.

Since many bureaucrats have flexible hours, they could probably work it out, at least those who don't need to pick up the kids.

[bikegypsy]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Even on office days, the vast majority of bureaucrats are done work at 4:30. Eating/drinking for three hours before the game does not seem like a viable strategy. It works in cities where people work until 6, but you could shoot a cannon in downtown Ottawa at 6 and not worry about hitting anyone.

3 hours for drinks and dinner plus the time to get there and settle down sounds about right.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by bikegypsy

3 hours for drinks and dinner plus the time to get there and settle down sounds about right.

People do that when they are tailgating for football which only has a few home games per year. I have never been to a city where office workers went on a 3 hour bender before weeknight sports events. Maybe the playoffs or something.

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by acottawa

People do that when they are tailgating for football which only has a few home games per year. I have never been to a city where office workers went on a 3 hour bender before weeknight sports events. Maybe the playoffs or something.

Say you finish work at 4:30pm. By the time you pack up, meet up with friends, find a watering hole, place and order and get served, it’s 5pm. Maybe 5:15pm if you’ve ordered food. You spend just over an hour at your pregame spot before settling up and heading out around 6:15 - 6:30. Add in another 20 min to hop on the O-Train, head to Pimisi, and make the short walk to the arena gives you just enough time to get through security and grab another pint before a 7pm puck drop.

Calling it a 3 hour bender is a bit of a stretch. Seems like a complete non-issue, and keep in mind, many people downtown actually do work until 5-6pm (hence why rush hour goes til 6:30pm).

[ponyboycurtis]

Originally Posted by acottawa

People do that when they are tailgating for football which only has a few home games per year. I have never been to a city where office workers went on a 3 hour bender before weeknight sports events. Maybe the playoffs or something.

Sorry, are you trying to say that out off all the people working in the CBD, Hull and Tunneys plus the other office towers around Preston nobody is going to stick around for a game when they have tickets?

I think you are overestimating the general lethargy of the general population. Look at a spot like Joey on Rideau. Or Jack Astors at Landsdowne. This is the exact type of crowd that fit the bill.