Stadiums & Arenas of Canada, Part 3

[MonctonRad]

Ottawa is a relatively small city (in continental, not Canadian context), and the need for two similar sized performance venues (CTC and LeBreton Flats) in a city like Ottawa is questionable. I've been to a Senators game at the CTC (staying in a downtown hotel), and, the drive out there was a pain (let alone the parking situation). It will be very difficult for the CTC to compete for high profile concerts.

The CTC may hang on a few years, but, demolition will happen at some point.

We had a similar situation in Moncton when the Avenir Centre opened downtown. Happily the old Coliseum is paired with an Agrena facility used for regional trade shows, and the facility remains profitable. They use the arena space to supplement the floor space of the agrena. They've maintained the ice plant, and the rink remains active mostly for house league and beer league hockey.

Is there any possibility the CTC could be repurposed for regional trade shows????

[J.OT13]

Ottawa's regional trade show space is the EY Centre near the airport. It's more centrally located and will have transit access eventually (been the case for over two years).

How did Vancouver support two NHL sized arenas when GM Place opened? They had roughly the same population as us today at the time.

[WhipperSnapper]

Supporting two facilities is less important than two competing facilities. CTC will not remain an arena once the new one opens. Adaptive reuse doesn't make all that much sense.

[Acajack]

The region also has a brand new 5000 seat arena in Gatineau and will soon have a renovated Civic Centre at Lansdowne with a capacity of 6000 in the heart of the city.

There is only so much need for a capacity of thousands for a limited number of events.

[WhipperSnapper]

Toronto could support two. Still, the conditions of sale of Maple Leaf Gardens included that it can't be used as an arena. That greatly reduced the sale price. Of course, MLSE didn't have to sell and could have monopolised the market with two arenas. You own two properties competing with one another. Clearly the tradeoff of one facilities with fewer annual dates is worth more than filling two.

That says these costly arena proposals/ renovations heavily subsidized by tax dollars are white elephants without a major league draw with 40 dates or more.

[ericmacm]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Ottawa's regional trade show space is the EY Centre near the airport. It's more centrally located and will have transit access eventually (been the case for over two years).

How did Vancouver support two NHL sized arenas when GM Place opened? They had roughly the same population as us today at the time.

In the case of Vancouver, I think the renovations undertaken for Pacific Coliseum’s use in the 2010 Olympics saved it from demolition. Even still, it hosts occasional concerts and sporting events and doesn’t appear to be in the queue for demolition, even though it lacks a permanent full-time sports tenant.

Hard to say if it is going to be necessary in the future. It doesn’t really need to act like a relief valve for Rogers Arena like the FirstOntario Centre is going to for Scotiabank Arena in the GTA since Rogers Arena only has one real major-league tenant. I could see it changing if the NBA comes there but the chances of that happening are minimal. However, Lower Mainland has two other major arenas with the Langley Events Centre and Abbotsford Centre, with the potential future addition of a new Surrey Arena in the near future, so there is plenty of arena capacity in the area. Perhaps the City/PNE are holding onto it just in case for now. I know BC has considered pursuing another Olympics again in the future.

I don’t think a case can be made in Ottawa for keeping the CTC after the LeBreton arena gets built. There will be a nice new arena at Lansdowne and there is another nice new arena in Gatineau.

[blueandgoldguy]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Ottawa's regional trade show space is the EY Centre near the airport. It's more centrally located and will have transit access eventually (been the case for over two years).

How did Vancouver support two NHL sized arenas when GM Place opened? They had roughly the same population as us today at the time.

Older arena with smaller square footage that is closer in actual size to the Avenir Centre in Moncton even though it seats 7,000 more. Thus, it competes for the smaller concerts and secondary sports teams that would not be able to secure dates at GM Place. Ottawa's current arena is NHL-sized with all the modern amenities needed for today's NHL team...just in a less ideal location. I would imagine heating and cooling costs for the Canucks former home would also be less than that of the Canadian Tire Centre given it is probably barely over half the interior volume.

Also, as far as I know, Vancouver didn't have a secondary rink of 5-6000 for those smaller sports teams and concerts so the old Pacific Coliseum filled that niche. In contrast, Ottawa already has 2 secondary arenas that fill that niche - the Slush Puppy Centre on the other side of the river and the Arena at TD Place (seating over 10,000) soon to replaced by another arena. Having 2 NHL quality arenas would be overkill as you would not be able to draw enough events to both to justify the annual operating cost in a city of 1.6 million.

[Djeffery]

London City Council has officially approved the name change of Budweiser Gardens to Canada Life Place, effective Oct 11. CTV News story didn't mention what the naming rights fee was. The previous deal was for $6.4 million over 10 years, so I would assume higher than that.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

London City Council has officially approved the name change of Budweiser Gardens to Canada Life Place, effective Oct 11. CTV News story didn't mention what the naming rights fee was. The previous deal was for $6.4 million over 10 years, so I would assume higher than that.

Canada Life has their eyes set on catching up to Rogers, Scotiabank and Bell for the most stadiums and arenas with their name on it? Still a long way to go.

[Coldrsx]

Surprised nobody shared that the NCC has agreed to a deal for the Downtown Arena project.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by Coldrsx

Surprised nobody shared that the NCC has agreed to a deal for the Downtown Arena project.

You missed about 15 posts.

https://skyscraperpage.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10288706&postcount=9094

Anyone know of a modern NHL or NBA stadium that has been converted to something else? Maple Leaf Gardens and le Forum are bad examples because they were smaller/simpler 1920s era barns.

This was already alluded to, but the most realistic use for the Palladium is probably moving the Farm Team to town so Kanata can keep a "local" team to support area businesses. Reduce the seating to 10k to avoid competition with the new arena Downtown, but compensate for the loss of the large Civic Centre, build an entertainment district around it and quieter, dense residential in the parking lots further out.

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Anyone know of a modern NHL or NBA stadium that has been converted to something else? Maple Leaf Gardens and le Forum are bad examples because they were smaller/simpler 1920s era barns.

Old Memphis Pyramid got converted into a Bass Pro Shop, of all things.

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by EpicPonyTime

Old Memphis Pyramid got converted into a Bass Pro Shop, of all things.

Right, that is a good example. Forgot about that one. Not much older than the Palladium.

[J.OT13]

Development application for the Civic Centre replacement at Lansdowne is up.

https://devapps.ottawa.ca/en/applications/D07-12-24-0082/details



It's been value engineered to death, yet significantly more expensive than initially proposed.

The green roof that was proposed is gone. The partial replacement for the existing hill has been removed. The edge walk is gone. So is the grand entrance facing the Canal.

[SteelTown]

Hamilton is getting an AHL team

OVG's FirstOntario Centre renovation includes 10 novel floor suites

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Ar...ontario-centre-renovation-oak-view-group

Oak View Group’s renovation of FirstOntario Centre in Hamilton, Ontario, will include 10 floor suites, a unique premium offering combining bunker suite privacy with direct visual access to the seating bowl and the event taking place. OVG is paying for the $280M renovation of the city-owned building and will operate it when it reopens in late 2025. The floor suites -- 10 in a row on one side of the building, each with capacity for 12 to 16 people -- are part of 21 suites in the 18,000-capacity arena.

“It’s the right size from a suite perspective in the market,” OVG Canada President Tom Pistore said. The goal, with architects Brisbane Brook Beynon (BBB), was to “not to overbuild suites,” Pistore said. “And when you do build them, make them really interesting and exciting.”

EllisDon is building the renovation, which broke ground in May. FirstOntario Centre’s design and existence is heavily focused on live music and entertainment, but Pistore said the venue will have at least one, maybe two, minor league pro sports tenants. OVG is in conversations with the American Hockey League about a new team in Hamilton, with an announcement expected early next year, Pistore said. For hockey games, the arena will feature seating on the glass, with a walkway for ingress/egress behind those seats, and the new floor suites behind the walkway, creating essentially floor seats that are slightly elevated.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Anyone know of a modern NHL or NBA stadium that has been converted to something else? Maple Leaf Gardens and le Forum are bad examples because they were smaller/simpler 1920s era barns.

The old Summit in Houston is now the Lakewood Church. Houston Rockets of the NBA to Joel Osteen's new home.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by SteelTown

Hamilton is getting an AHL team

OVG is in conversations with the American Hockey League about a new team in Hamilton, with an announcement expected early next year, Pistore said.

I'm going to throw a dart at the board and say this could be the Providence Bruins. They are owned by a guy who, while I can't find out much info on him, I found that he started his company 55 years ago (which I'm guessing pushes him on 80) and the arena in Providence is almost as old, and seats 11,000.

Of course, another easy target is the Tuscon Roadrunners, currently owned by that awesome hockey guy, Alex Meruelo, former owner of the Arizona Coyotes. Talk is that he plans to move the team to Reno to a new arena he is building, but perhaps these past 6 months have convinced him that maybe hockey isn't his thing.

And also, the more Gary Bettman denies NHL expansion is being discussed, the more I think it actually means it's coming in the next few years, and with that comes new AHL teams. So maybe Hamilton will be in line for one of those.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Canada Life has their eyes set on catching up to Rogers, Scotiabank and Bell for the most stadiums and arenas with their name on it? Still a long way to go.

Currently tied with Slush Puppie lol

[bridgeoftea]

With the pre-sale tickets going on sale today for the Oasis gigs next year at Rogers Center. It will be interesting to see how fast they sell out. My guess is a lot of people from the UK/Europe who missed out on tickets are going to be trying for the N.A dates now that the dynamic pricing will not be used.

[EpicPonyTime]

Originally Posted by bridgeoftea

With the pre-sale tickets going on sale today for the Oasis gigs next year at Rogers Center. It will be interesting to see how fast they sell out. My guess is a lot of people from the UK/Europe who missed out on tickets are going to be trying for the N.A dates now that the dynamic pricing will not be used.

Oasis will be playing at Live Nation’s “Rogers Stadium” not Rogers Centre.