YVR And Sea Island Developments Discussion II

[LeftCoaster]

Here's the BA details from aeroroutes

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/240913-bans25lhr

Just for those keeping score at home

AC flights to all of Europe: 6,604 seats per week
BA flights to just London: 6,160 seats per week

Thanks Air Canada!

[casper]

Someone posted a neat video of how AC moves planes around YVR.

• Video Link

[s211]

^Now if only Nav Canada could get their staffing levels finally up to snuff. I'm really tired of being held at a departing airport because Vancouver is understaffed and planes can't take off until they're given a slot.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by s211

^Now if only Nav Canada could get their staffing levels finally up to snuff. I'm really tired of being held at a departing airport because Vancouver is understaffed and planes can't take off until they're given a slot.

AI will fix everything

[VancityAvgeek33]

Does anyone know if there will be any new routes announced for this year? I feel like air Canada is just giving up on Vancouver like aero routes announced they are reducing Hong Kong back to just daily.

[nname]

Originally Posted by VancityAvgeek33

Does anyone know if there will be any new routes announced for this year? I feel like air Canada is just giving up on Vancouver like aero routes announced they are reducing Hong Kong back to just daily.

Already mentioned above. The service for the rest of winter season is reallocated to BKK and AKL. Likely AC have better use for the resource now that CX increase to 2x daily, and HX also looking at restarting the route.

AC just added an extra flight to SIN on Oct 30 when they need to send the plane there for maintenance. Up until earlier this year, AC used to add extra flights to HKG then deadhead to SIN. Now AC just run the plane straight to SIN. This probably tell you something...

The reallocated service for the summer season after late March is still unknown, so one of the following will likely happen:

1. Open a new 3-4x weekly route to S/SE Asia or S Pacific. Taiwan or S America may work, but timing is not ideal. E/SE Europe will also work but timing will be horrible.

2. Increase SIN to daily

3. Extend one of BKK, AKL, DXB to year-round, 3-4x weekly

4. Nothing at YVR... one plane will be sent to YYZ or YUL

[casper]

Originally Posted by s211

^Now if only Nav Canada could get their staffing levels finally up to snuff. I'm really tired of being held at a departing airport because Vancouver is understaffed and planes can't take off until they're given a slot.

I get that all the time on the flight from Victoria into Vancouver. From an air traffic control perspective, that has to be one of the easiest flight to manage.

[nname]

ZG increase YVR-NRT to 5x weekly for March 2025
https://www.zipair.net/en/notification/266

YVR-DUB reduce to 3x weekly, ungauged from 788 to 789. Now the flight will rotate with KIX.

So the leftover AC capacity at YVR are:
- 3x weekly noon departure to rotate with PVG (this year it was 2x KIX and 1x DUB)
- 3x weekly late night departure that used to go to HKG

[ninjakafi_81]

Originally Posted by nname

Already mentioned above. The service for the rest of winter season is reallocated to BKK and AKL. Likely AC have better use for the resource now that CX increase to 2x daily, and HX also looking at restarting the route.

AC just added an extra flight to SIN on Oct 30 when they need to send the plane there for maintenance. Up until earlier this year, AC used to add extra flights to HKG then deadhead to SIN. Now AC just run the plane straight to SIN. This probably tell you something...

The reallocated service for the summer season after late March is still unknown, so one of the following will likely happen:

1. Open a new 3-4x weekly route to S/SE Asia or S Pacific. Taiwan or S America may work, but timing is not ideal. E/SE Europe will also work but timing will be horrible.

2. Increase SIN to daily

3. Extend one of BKK, AKL, DXB to year-round, 3-4x weekly

4. Nothing at YVR... one plane will be sent to YYZ or YUL

It would be really nice to have some new routes out of YVR, but I dont think we'll be seeing any of that until the XLR's and 787-10's start arriving. So what I think would happen is we'll either see some slight increases in existing routes or the plane would be sent out east to YYZ/YUL.

[nname]

Originally Posted by ninjakafi_81

It would be really nice to have some new routes out of YVR, but I dont think we'll be seeing any of that until the XLR's and 787-10's start arriving. So what I think would happen is we'll either see some slight increases in existing routes or the plane would be sent out east to YYZ/YUL.

That haven't happen yet. Looks like AC was able to squeeze out PRG, NAP, and YOW-LHR by cutting many European routes from YYZ/YUL one or two weekly each.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by casper

I get that all the time on the flight from Victoria into Vancouver. From an air traffic control perspective, that has to be one of the easiest flight to manage.

When any airport implements a ground delay program (GDP) or ground stop (GS), it is done so by a certain method that involves tiers.

A tier refers to the scope of a GDP/GS.

In the case of YVR,

First step is usually kept within the Vancouver flight information region (FIR), which is basically the province of BC (see map link below), meaning it only affects aircraft departing airports within BC. Hence why flights in/out of YYJ are always affected by the YVR delays.

When it goes up to 1st tier, it refers to the first step above, plus all those enroute centers immediately adjacent to the one where a GDP or a constraint is in place. For example, for YVR, a 1st tier GDP would involve CZV (Vancouver FIR), but also Seattle ARTCC and Edmonton FIR. So aircraft departing from any one of those FIR's or ARTCC's would be caught in that ground delay and not be allowed to depart until their assigned controlled departure time.

A 2nd tier GDP would extend a bit further. Ex it might include flights departing Winnipeg FIR and Salt Lake City and Oakland ARTCC's as well.

So that's how it's done. Long haul flights coming from outside Canada or the US aren't affected by Canadian or US GDPs.

Here is a FAA map of Canadian FIR's and US ARTCC's. Click on "tier info".

https://www.fly.faa.gov/ois/?legacy=true

If you click on any US ARTCC, you will see the tiers associated with airports in that region. For example, if you click on Seattle ARTCC (ZSE), you can see that the first step involves just Seattle ARTCC. Tier 1 includes Salk Lake (ZLC) and Oakland (ZOA) ARTCC's, but also CYVR, CYYC and CYEG. Tier 2 involves first step + tier 1 + Los Angeles/Denver/Minneapolis ARTCC's as well. So that's how it's done. The worse the GDP/GS is, it usually means a higher tier is involved. When the shit really hits the fan (accident at an airport, or airport closure for any reason), a full on continental GDP or GS can be implemented. I've seen that before as well.

Canada does the same thing.

[nname]

YB (Harbour Air) will be adding YVR-YYJ from November, up to 3x daily

YVR will be operate out of South Terminal, not the seaplane base. YYJ will also operate out of terminal.

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by nname

YB (Harbour Air) will be adding YVR-YYJ from November, up to 3x daily

YVR will be operate out of South Terminal, not the seaplane base. YYJ will also operate out of terminal.

That’s excellent. Good luck to them. We are flying with them harbour to harbour when we are back at Christmas.
Had another excellent YVR experience in and out. Pretty smooth sailing both arriving and departing. Seems to be a global problem but they really need to expand the intl lounges. Both the MapleLeaf and SkyTeam lounges were just over capacity. I was surprised AI uses the SkyTeam lounge. But alas overall a pleasant travelling experience. Had spectacular views from the Fairmont as we stayed overnight the night before.
Funny seeing Porter checkin wedged in between all the international carriers. A nice exotic array of carriers walking up and down the checkin hall a few times.
BA to LGW sure seemed popular! And just from observing looks like Westjet still has quite the Transborder presence with plenty of flights in and out. They seem to be holding their own here.

[nname]

Originally Posted by nname

YVR-DUB reduce to 3x weekly, ungauged from 788 to 789. Now the flight will rotate with KIX.

So the leftover AC capacity at YVR are:
- 3x weekly noon departure to rotate with PVG (this year it was 2x KIX and 1x DUB)
- 3x weekly late night departure that used to go to HKG

From recent rumors, I can probably guess where those 6x weekly will go. There might be an announcement soon if everything goes well.

AC really need those XLRs for additional capacities....

[Johnny Aussie]

Originally Posted by nname

From recent rumors, I can probably guess where those 6x weekly will go. There might be an announcement soon if everything goes well.

AC really need those XLRs for additional capacities....

Sounds exciting!

[teriyaki]

Originally Posted by nname

From recent rumors, I can probably guess where those 6x weekly will go. There might be an announcement soon if everything goes well.

AC really need those XLRs for additional capacities....

Might one interpret the rumoured destination as someplace, extra far away?

[nname]

Originally Posted by teriyaki

Might one interpret the rumoured destination as someplace, extra far away?

No, somewhere closer. Something about China...

If the rumor is true, maybe 2026 can be the year that YVR breaks all time passenger record. If Flair can survive the winter...

[ninjakafi_81]

Originally Posted by nname

No, somewhere closer. Something about China...

If the rumor is true, maybe 2026 can be the year that YVR breaks all time passenger record. If Flair can survive the winter...

I guess if its something about China, we would see AC return to PEK and increase frequencies to PVG ? Or would we see them start flights to a new city in China like CAN ?

[nname]

Originally Posted by ninjakafi_81

I guess if its something about China, we would see AC return to PEK and increase frequencies to PVG ? Or would we see them start flights to a new city in China like CAN ?

All I heard is an agreement to increase service on both sides might be in the work. How much, when, and any restrictions around Russia, or the destination is still unknown.

From the timing, AC can put the remaining service on 2 routes.. one as soon as Oct and the other one from end of Mar 2025. I think increasing PVG to daily is pretty much a given. The second route will likely go to PEK unless AC can magically find some plane to operate the route before that. AC do have the right to fly to CAN though, but then Canada side can pretty much request for any city and will likely granted if the Chinese want any frequency increase...

More interesting is how the Chinese side allocate their frequency. The majority will go to YVR, but maybe a couple may go YYZ or even YUL (with fuel stop at YVR), based on what we seen on the US side.

Again, this is the second time I heard about this. Last time (more than 1 year ago) it went as far as schedule being updated by some airlines, before rolling everything back again.

[owenf]

Originally Posted by nname

All I heard is an agreement to increase service on both sides might be in the work. How much, when, and any restrictions around Russia, or the destination is still unknown.

From the timing, AC can put the remaining service on 2 routes.. one as soon as Oct and the other one from end of Mar 2025. I think increasing PVG to daily is pretty much a given. The second route will likely go to PEK unless AC can magically find some plane to operate the route before that. AC do have the right to fly to CAN though, but then Canada side can pretty much request for any city and will likely granted if the Chinese want any frequency increase...

More interesting is how the Chinese side allocate their frequency. The majority will go to YVR, but maybe a couple may go YYZ or even YUL (with fuel stop at YVR), based on what we seen on the US side.

Again, this is the second time I heard about this. Last time (more than 1 year ago) it went as far as schedule being updated by some airlines, before rolling everything back again.

Seeing that it’s been rolled back once before, what’s the likelihood that this time china frequencies/routes really will increase? It’s about time we get them back