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  #5141  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2024, 6:05 PM
bon_vivant bon_vivant is online now
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https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/why-so-m...toba-1.7044328

I was one of those young people who left. The takeaway? We do a terrible job of promoting ourselves. It's a decades-old problem.
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  #5142  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2024, 8:46 PM
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Originally Posted by bon_vivant View Post
https://winnipeg.ctvnews.ca/why-so-m...toba-1.7044328

I was one of those young people who left. The takeaway? We do a terrible job of promoting ourselves. It's a decades-old problem.
They're really overstepping the actual findings from their study. They talk about how people are leaving for lower taxes. That's a VERY shaky claim to make based on their actual survey responses.

It's almost like the Chamber of Commerce and Canada West Foundation want to tell a story about how the loss of young workers is primarily a taxation story... I wonder why
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  #5143  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2024, 8:48 PM
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Originally Posted by borkborkbork View Post
They're really overstepping the actual findings from their study. They talk about how people are leaving for lower taxes. That's a VERY shaky claim to make based on their actual survey responses.

It's almost like the Chamber of Commerce and Canada West Foundation want to tell a story about how the loss of young workers is primarily a taxation story... I wonder why
I take most of what the Chamber of Commerce says with a grain of salt..
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  #5144  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2024, 9:20 PM
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Almost everyone I know who moved to BC, southern ONT or Alberta when they were in their 20’s have all moved back here because they couldn't afford to have families with two jobs and have a good quality of living.
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  #5145  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2024, 9:22 PM
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Originally Posted by borkborkbork View Post
They're really overstepping the actual findings from their study. They talk about how people are leaving for lower taxes. That's a VERY shaky claim to make based on their actual survey responses.

It's almost like the Chamber of Commerce and Canada West Foundation want to tell a story about how the loss of young workers is primarily a taxation story... I wonder why
Hmm, interesting. Never thought of that. But I have to say, coming from another province, Manitoba's age-old claims of affordability don't really hold up anymore (other than housing).

Last edited by bon_vivant; Sep 19, 2024 at 9:32 PM.
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  #5146  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2024, 9:27 PM
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Almost everyone I know who moved to BC, southern ONT or Alberta when they were in their 20’s have all moved back here because they couldn't afford to have families with two jobs and have a good quality of living.
Really? Almost all of the people from my graduating class moved to Alberta or BC and none of them moved back. This was early 90's.

Only 3 people in my graduating class moved east. 2 of us are still here.
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  #5147  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2024, 11:36 PM
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I think the era in which your people moved vs mine revolves a lot around cost of living and ease of establishment at that time vs 20- some years later, if I could guess.
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  #5148  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2024, 3:00 PM
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There's an article in today's on-line Free Press that looks like it addresses the issue people here are discussing:

"Perception key to retaining Manitoba youth: report"
by Gabrielle Piché

Based on the title, it seems to cover a lot of what people here have been saying for a long time; the perception of the city needs to change.

I couldn't access it because of the paywall, so if someone could post the contents here I'd appreciate seeing what the article covers.
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  #5149  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2024, 3:17 PM
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Perception key to retaining Manitoba youth: report
Advocates seek all-hands-on-deck approach to address out-migration issues

By: Gabrielle Piché
Posted: 8:43 PM CDT Thursday, Sep. 19, 2024

Over the past decade, Manitoba has experienced a net loss of more than 23,000 young people to other provinces — and a new report has detailed why.

Safety concerns, career advancement opportunities and vibrant communities elsewhere top the list of reasons for leaving, according to the Canada West Foundation’s study on Manitoba youth mobility.

Local business leaders are sounding alarm bells, calling for widespread change.

“This is going to be an all-hands-on-deck approach to address an issue like this,” said Chuck Davidson, president of the Manitoba Chambers of Commerce.

Last year, the organization commissioned the Canada West Foundation to study why Manitoba has experienced a loss of people interprovincially for at least four decades.

It came as various sectors — from agriculture to hospitality — repeatedly stressed labour shortages.

The Canada West Foundation unveiled its report this week. In 124 pages, it details out-migration trends and reasons for youth departures.

“There’s just not really an understanding of what Manitoba offers,” said Stephany Laverty, co-author of the report.

Manitoba has one of Canada’s youngest populations; it’s diverse, has a rich cultural sector and jobs available within its economy, the report states.

“I think that perceptual challenge is really a barrier for youth,” Laverty said.

The Canada West Foundation, a Calgary-based think tank, led eight surveys and five focus groups to gather information, alongside secondary research.

It pulled survey responses from more than 1,500 people ages 18 through 45. A majority of respondents were from Manitoba; 300 each came from Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary and Toronto.

Outside the province, Manitoba can be a “blank slate” to younger generations. Sometimes, it’s overgeneralized as very rural; other times, people liken all of Manitoba to their perception of Winnipeg, Laverty said.

“How do you show Manitoba as this place of nuance and a place where you can build a life?” Laverty said. “It’s not a one-size-fits-all solution.”

Jadyn Friesen, a 23-year-old University of Winnipeg student, considers herself a regular traveller. When she says she’s from Manitoba, people “literally laugh.”

“The Prairies — especially us and (Saskatchewan) — they don’t get a good rep,” she said, adding crime is often brought up.

The Canada West Foundation’s report includes a 2022 crime severity index. Winnipeg ranked first for violent crime by population size when evaluating communities with 100,000 and more residents.

Friesen would move to a different place out of curiosity. But she does love Winnipeg, she said, adding the people are “very lovely.”

However, downtown can be scary to women her age, she added.

Roman Dokuchie, 21, has heard the Winnipeg complaints often: “It’s dirty, it could be cleaner. Lots of drug problems, lots of crime. Bike thefts.”

Even so, he considers Winnipeg “a pretty good city” and doesn’t want to move.

Everyone from government to businesses and post-secondary institutions must work harder on retaining and attracting young Manitobans and newcomers, Davidson said.

It starts with talking about the province in a positive way and promoting local success stories, he added. “It almost needs to be ingrained in our mindset moving forward to understand and have those conversations with young people.”

Economic reconciliation, easing barriers for newcomer professionals and creating more relationships between post-secondaries and high schools are among things to consider, he added.

The report carves out sections for rural, newcomer and First Nations communities. Almost all immigrant respondents said they’d move to another province or territory for a job; just nine per cent reported coming to Manitoba for a specific job offer.

More than half — 54 per cent — said the chose Manitoba because family was already there or because immigration to the province was easier.

A fleeting migrant population needs to be addressed, Davidson said, as does rural out-migration.

Often, young adults move from small communities to cities like Winnipeg and Brandon for school. It’s hard to bring them back, noted Margot Cathcart, CEO of the Rural Manitoba Economic Development Corp.

Front-line jobs traditionally held by youth, like in restaurants and retail, have been harder to fill, she added.

Cathcart said she is planning to delve into the Canada West Foundation report and speak to rural communities about next steps.

IT and digital media workers were most likely to leave Manitoba, the Canada West Foundation’s report found. Fifty per cent of respondents reported looking elsewhere. People working in finance, insurance and knowledge industries also topped the list.

There’s “a lot more work to be done” to keep tech workers in Manitoba, said Kelly Fournel, CEO of Tech Manitoba.

“There’s a bit of a disconnect in terms of, we’re creating graduates who are ready for the knowledge-based economy, but we don’t necessarily have that economy in Manitoba right now.”

Some provinces have an innovation minister to generate jobs and excitement in the industry. That’s lacking in Manitoba, Fournel said.

The province has “innovative training and partnerships” moving the tech sector forward, Economic Development Minister Jamie Moses stated.

He pointed to New Media Manitoba as one organization creating excitement among young people.

The province continues to grow industries that will attract youth, like the tech sector, Moses continued. He blamed the previous Progressive Conservative leadership for having “more austerity,” impacting younger generations’ view of Manitoba.

Canada West Foundation respondents ages 18 to 24 were most likely to be pessimistic about job opportunities within the province.

Fournel wonders whether respondents are dealing with the after-effects of the COVID-19 pandemic and a “climate of pessimism.” High school graduates during the COVID-19 pandemic are now in their early 20s.

The Manitoba Chambers of Commerce spent $429,000 on the Canada West Foundation report. Money was taken from the province’s $50-million COVID-19 long-term recovery fund, which the chambers administered.

It was money well-spent, Davidson said.

“The last thing … we would hope that a report like this does is sit on a shelf,” he added. “I hope we can work with government and other stakeholders to develop some action plans so that we can reverse these trends.”

gabrielle.piche@winnipegfreepress.com
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  #5150  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2024, 3:18 PM
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Here is the full report here:

https://mbchamber.mb.ca/wp-content/u..._WEB_FINAL.pdf

It was done by the Canada West Foundation, which seems to be a center-right think tank.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_West_Foundation

The report was paid for by the Manitoba Chambers of Commerce.
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  #5151  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2024, 4:23 PM
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Originally Posted by WinCitySparky View Post
I think the era in which your people moved vs mine revolves a lot around cost of living and ease of establishment at that time vs 20- some years later, if I could guess.
That's a good point. Cost of living today is out of control.

I'm still contemplating a move back if things get shittier, especially in a couple of years once my youngest is out of high school.
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  #5152  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2024, 4:39 PM
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Thanks for posting the entire article!

This section especially stuck a chord with me:

"Everyone from government to businesses and post-secondary institutions must work harder on retaining and attracting young Manitobans and newcomers, Davidson said.

It starts with talking about the province in a positive way and promoting local success stories, he added. “It almost needs to be ingrained in our mindset moving forward to understand and have those conversations with young people.”


We've all seen the "Winnipeg sucks" mindset displayed by some people in this forum, and read similar examples from outside the forum. It's annoying is that the people who seem be most distressed about Winnipeg's difficulties are contributing to it with their constant negative comments (This doesn't count the constituency that seems to want to see the city fail; they have their own issues that go deeper than this topic).

I think we have to start be really pushing a select number of good news stories about the city as much as possible. However, we must make sure they can be specifically identified with the city itself. Saying "our people are nice" or "there's lots of parks" are so generic as to sound cliched.

I think the key points we could push can include: Winnipeg is ground zero for true economic and social Indigenous reconciliation in Canada. Winnipeg is Canada's mid-continent hub for film production and the creative arts. Winnipeg punches above it's weight.

We have to do this a lot. Be loud and proud. It takes 4-5 positives to overcome one negative, so we can't be complacent about defending the city.
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  #5153  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2024, 5:58 PM
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^ Hear! Hear!
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  #5154  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2024, 7:40 PM
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And too often Winnipeggers do ourselves no favours. Earlier this summer my company had some folks coming in from Toronto as a team building thing. Talking to them a lot of the comments they had received from Winnipeggers about what to do here were along the lines of "don't get stabbed".
This drives me nuts. My usual pub is near the convention centre, and I occasionally end up talking to people visiting from out-of-town for a conference or for work. They always mention being told "don't get stabbed", usually followed by remarking that downtown seems fine to them.

My pet hypothesis is that the people warning "don't get stabbed" probably live in Charleswood and are play-acting being some battle-hardened veterans of the mean streets of Winnipeg like it confers some kind of hard won worldliness.
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  #5155  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2024, 8:08 PM
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^ at the same time, if their only expectation is getting stabbed - then basically any other outcome is a net positive in terms of someone's visit to Winnipeg!

I would hate to go too far in the other direction where someone is expecting amazing things in Winnipeg and ends up disappointed.

Winnipeg is a great place and has a lot to offer... IF you know where to go and what to do, and especially who your tour guide is while you are here. Its not an in your face tourist town, and requires some effort to search out the cool spots.

I honestly think its wise to temper expectations to outside visitors. But maybe that's just the pessimist in me.
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  #5156  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2024, 8:20 PM
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I'm not sure bad perception should be the only take away from the report....there are some realities that inform that reputation.
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  #5157  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2024, 9:18 PM
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I honestly think its wise to temper expectations to outside visitors. But maybe that's just the pessimist in me.
Sure, but what visitors are currently getting is pretty close to the "leaving your room at the Delta is certain death" end of the spectrum, and not at all close to the "Rivendell" end. I don't see visitors being disappointed after being overpromised to any time soon.
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  #5158  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2024, 12:56 AM
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From Zalf: My pet hypothesis is that the people warning "don't get stabbed" probably live in Charleswood and are play-acting being some battle-hardened veterans of the mean streets of Winnipeg like it confers some kind of hard won worldliness.

Sounds about right. There's a thrill talking about dangers one doesn't experience personally. It's like people who go on an on about terrible natural disasters in faraway lands. Also, the glee that some folks express talking about "all that crime" betrays their sense of smugness over their perceived sense of safety in their particular enclave.

From drew: "I would hate to go too far in the other direction where someone is expecting amazing things in Winnipeg and ends up disappointed".

Couldn't agree more.

In Regina I was told Wascana Park was "the most beautiful spot in the country". If you've been there, you know it's a green space around the man-made lake. It's a nice green space, there's a path around it, the provincial Leg. is on one side, there's flowers.....but it's still a green space around a man-made lake. Ultimately it's a local version of what you'll find in a hundred other cities. Nice enough, but hardly "the most beautiful sport in the country". the result for many visitors (not just myself) is kind of a "that's IT?" response. Hardly a favourable impression.

I don't think we alarm visitors if we suggest they avoid certain areas of the city, especially at night. Unless they live in a cave somewhere, they're going to be familiar with our social issues. I've suggested to visitors they avoid walking too far north of the Manitoba Museum on Main Street. People understand.

I think we also have to be enthusiastic, but realistic about our attractions and amenities . Be aware of what attractions are actually somewhat unique (I'd put the CMHR and the Mint in this category) and what are very good local attractions people might enjoy (Manitoba Museum, the Forks, good local restaurants and pubs, the Exchange District, the RWB, and so on); things that exist in some form or another elsewhere, but might interest in visitors in seeing what our local version is like.



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  #5159  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2024, 2:28 AM
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Exactly. Look at downtown Vancouver. Everything is pretty until you walk too far down E. Hastings street, then suddenly... WTF! And Gastown is definitely a mixed bag, Chinatown too. Every downtown in every major city has sketchy areas, you simply avoid them. Most visitors get that. Some of these whiner-peggers need to travel more, they'd obsess about our problems a little less.
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  #5160  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2024, 6:35 AM
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kimg kob pub is now open i see
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