Atlantic Canadian Politics Thread

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

So is harm reduction the new dog whistle issue that Higgs wants to make the election about? Gender policy in school wasn’t quite cutting it.

NB has much bigger issues to deal with… hope people keep those bigger picture issues in mind when deciding who to vote for this fall.

[lirette]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

It's like drug addicts are the only people in a community to these people. What about everyone who has to live or work near this? How come the proliferation of 'harm reduction' facilities in Canada has not given us lovely Scandinavian results?

I advocate on this forum for development and other issues and have done so for many years. I also addressed the factors that affect society as a whole and not just the people who use the facilities in my post. Its not helpful for the discussion to put words into my mouth or assume what I do or don't care about.

If you close these facilities, I expect that the visible behavior you are concerned about is not going away, in fact you get more people shooting up in the streets and on public property, without any ability to even test their supply for fentanyl, resulting in worse outcomes.

We should be spending a lot more time talking about how that person ended up in a situation where they needed these services and a lot less time trying to talk about closing down the service that has access to resources and potentially saves their life's, and keeps our EMS staff safer and reduces the strain on our hospitals.

I'm more than open to Higgs idea of consultations with local governments on these facilities and their impacts. I'm sure they would even welcome it. It would probably do him a lot of good to talk directly with the operator of Ensemble, talk to front line ambulance workers about their experience responding to calls. He might even hear a few stories about people who were able to get the right resources after going to the facility and are on a path to sobriety.

[TitleRequired]

Received John Dornan's door knocker recently.

It's interesting marketing. The usual more homes, better healthcare.

What struck me though was how tone deaf the imagery was. Case in point, a photo of a group including John, his wife, a person who was involved with the SJ hospital foundation previously, etc; wearing completion medals at a marathon.

Which Marathon? That ones' easy if you have travelled. Photo was reminiscent of the buildings around Trafalgar square.

Yup. 2023 entrants; John and Gail Dornan. 2 of 515 Canadian entrants that year.

How well does that play in the Crescent Valley? I don't think it does.

It might on Yacht Haven Lane. But that's several income strata differences. Just like the priviledge of being able to fly transatlantic for a weekend to participate in a (well organized...) fun run.

[MonctonRad]

What's your point? That an affluent doctor is disqualified from running for public office???

Great way to ensure that the best and brightest can not be entrusted with looking after the public purse,

Is this a case of "tall poppy syndrome"???

[TitleRequired]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

What's your point? That an affluent doctor is disqualified from running for public office???

Great way to ensure that the best and brightest can not be entrusted with looking after the public purse,

Is this a case of "tall poppy syndrome"???

Not really. It's a comment on his marketing strategy.

He has a miniscule amount of time to convince voters that he is worth

1. Showing up to vote for, and,
2. Waiting in line, processed, etc...
3. Filling in his circle.

Does a photo from the London marathon accomplish this?

With such a income diverse riding, you can't ignore a huge block of voters with your messaging.

To contrast; Barry Ogden would be able to point to the marigold project, football, etc. Visible reminders within the community; and shows he cares for the crescent valley.

I'm not seeing this with the doorknocker.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by lirette

I advocate on this forum for development and other issues and have done so for many years. I also addressed the factors that affect society as a whole and not just the people who use the facilities in my post. Its not helpful for the discussion to put words into my mouth or assume what I do or don't care about.

If you close these facilities, I expect that the visible behavior you are concerned about is not going away, in fact you get more people shooting up in the streets and on public property, without any ability to even test their supply for fentanyl, resulting in worse outcomes.

We should be spending a lot more time talking about how that person ended up in a situation where they needed these services and a lot less time trying to talk about closing down the service that has access to resources and potentially saves their life's, and keeps our EMS staff safer and reduces the strain on our hospitals.

I'm more than open to Higgs idea of consultations with local governments on these facilities and their impacts. I'm sure they would even welcome it. It would probably do him a lot of good to talk directly with the operator of Ensemble, talk to front line ambulance workers about their experience responding to calls. He might even hear a few stories about people who were able to get the right resources after going to the facility and are on a path to sobriety.

How can you point to these 'services' as helping emergency resources? They're all strained to the absolute maximum right now. The more services catering to drug addicts and criminals, the more time and money they suck up. Police arrest the same guy three times a week, and firefighters and paramedics resurrect him twice in the same time span. Before the proliferation of these enablement facilities we did not have a zombie war zone around Waterloo.

Police and fire report regularly, at least annually, on call types, volume, and location. Not sure about EMS. It does not paint a pretty picture of the area. IIRC there's as many emergency services calls between City Road and Union than in the rest of the city combined.

[adamuptownsj]

Two new political parties, both presumably completely unserious:

Social Justice Party of New Brunswick and Consensus NB Party. They join August's Libertarian Party.

https://x.com/cdnelxnstracker/status/1834071215004418418

Social Justice Party seems to have kicked off their 'campaign' with a LinkedIn ad recruiting candidates. Appears to be led by a Tanya Roberts out of Edmundston. One-woman operation and rather unhinged per their FB page. Seem to be all over the map politically but were holding an impromptu press conference on the sidewalk in front of the JDI building.

Consensus NB Party seems to want nonpartisan government with no ministers and no premier, randomly assigned committee membership, and MLAs being directed by whatever local constituents show up on each individual vote, being subject to recall for making unpopular votes. Very odd website, spells 'parties' wrong dozens of times. Praises the government of... Nunavut. Facebook page is a couple years old and seems to be another one-man band.

Needless to say there will be no electoral impact (and possibly no qualified candidates at all) from any of these three. Is eight parties the most we've ever had at once?

[TitleRequired]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

How can you point to these 'services' as helping emergency resources? They're all strained to the absolute maximum right now. The more services catering to drug addicts and criminals, the more time and money they suck up. Police arrest the same guy three times a week, and firefighters and paramedics resurrect him twice in the same time span. Before the proliferation of these enablement facilities we did not have a zombie war zone around Waterloo.

Police and fire report regularly, at least annually, on call types, volume, and location. Not sure about EMS. It does not paint a pretty picture of the area. IIRC there's as many emergency services calls between City Road and Union than in the rest of the city combined.

Let's not forget, the transaction of requiring naloxone implies you've gone into respiratory arrest. The brain is being deprived of oxygen, not a good thing in anyone's books. And the stats out of Vancouver suggest a 13:1 ratio of eventual death due to comorbidities if naloxone has to be used.

That's almost Russian roulette odds.

If I want to be hypoxic and have a death wish, I'd be safer hiking up Everest.

A large portion of society suggests that this conduct is no longer acceptable. I agree.

The harm reduction advocates could mitigate their impacts on neighborhoods by being good neighbors. But they are not, as far as I can tell. Ensemble Moncton should be looking for different location, for example -- the 200m from daycare standard being rolled out in Ontario will be compelling to the conservatives should they retain power.

[lirette]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

How can you point to these 'services' as helping emergency resources? They're all strained to the absolute maximum right now. The more services catering to drug addicts and criminals, the more time and money they suck up. Police arrest the same guy three times a week, and firefighters and paramedics resurrect him twice in the same time span. Before the proliferation of these enablement facilities we did not have a zombie war zone around Waterloo.

Police and fire report regularly, at least annually, on call types, volume, and location. Not sure about EMS. It does not paint a pretty picture of the area. IIRC there's as many emergency services calls between City Road and Union than in the rest of the city combined.

I think what you are missing is that regardless or ignoring is whether ensemble or other services are open these people are doing drugs either way. Thats how addiction works. We can bury our heads in the sand and pretend thats not the case all day, but this is the reality.

When a person goes to ensemble one of the main benefits is that they have technology to test the persons supply for levels of fentanyl. Based on those test results they can choose to adjust the dosage or not consume it at all. This in turn minimizes the risk of overdose and needing medical services. They also have a nurse practitioner on site.

If a person lives inside of a drug den type environment and overdoses, ambulance has to respond. The setting which they are having to respond (could be multiple times per week/month as you say) can be a completely unsafe environment for them. It is much safer for them to respond to ensemble then to have to respond to an apartment where they have no idea what they might encounter, or in most cases they do not have to respond at all because the person at ensemble has access to testing services and the nurse practitioner on site.

I've worked and spent tons of time downtown moncton. In my experience emergency staff responding over and over to is happening more at the shelters and than at ensemble.

People might think I'm celebrating drug use or project whatever they want onto me but that couldn't be further from the truth. I look at this from a pragmatic perspective. Addicts are going to consume these drugs no matter what until they are in a situation where they are ready for help. While it is incredible difficult to turn their lives around when they reach that point I believe they have a better chance if they are accessing a place like ensemble than if they are shooting up dirty supplies inside of a drug den or outside behind a bush.

This doesn't even include the piece where dirty needles can lead to cases of HIV spread around. If we want to talk about fiscal conservatism, take a look at the cost of HIV drugs.

[MonctonRad]

lirette is correct, although I fully understand where adamuptownsj is coming from. It is infuriating to see what is happening to our downtowns.

My approach is somewhere in the middle. Harm reduction strategies are an unfortunate necessity. They should be supported. At the same time, I think increased enforcement directed at dealers and pushers is necessary. These people need to be removed from the street. Prison sentences should be long and harsh.

[lirette]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

lirette is correct, although I fully understand where adamuptownsj is coming from. It is infuriating to see what is happening to our downtowns.

My approach is somewhere in the middle. Harm reduction strategies are an unfortunate necessity. They should be supported. At the same time, I think increased enforcement directed at dealers and pushers is necessary. These people need to be removed from the street. Prison sentences should be long and harsh.

Absolutely, safe injection sites aren't some silver bullet to take this problem down. They are really only a small piece of the solution, but we have enough studies of these facilities that they decrease overdose fatalities, decrease levels of HIV and increase safety for emergency staff that while they can be challenging to accept from a moral and visual standpoint, they have their place.

I'd certainly be in support of an increased focus on drug enforcement. Cutting off the supply is a big piece of the issue, along with housing needs, lack of mental health care, economic factors and others. Drug addiction is ultimately a symptom of greater issues.

[TitleRequired]

Originally Posted by lirette

Absolutely, safe injection sites aren't some silver bullet to take this problem down. They are really only a small piece of the solution, but we have enough studies of these facilities that they decrease overdose fatalities, decrease levels of HIV and increase safety for emergency staff that while they can be challenging to accept from a moral and visual standpoint, they have their place.

I'd certainly be in support of an increased focus on drug enforcement. Cutting off the supply is a big piece of the issue, along with housing needs, lack of mental health care, economic factors and others. Drug addiction is ultimately a symptom of greater issues.

I'll post this again. How do we get to under 2 per 100,000 again? Harm reduction, as it stands, isn't achieving this key performance indicator. If it did, this wouldn't be a election topic.

I would also suspect Area 911 wouldn't exist in its present form.

How does the current harm reduction model need to change? Crickets.

The interesting take on this is the prescription monitoring program recently introduced. Ensemble et al were all opposed; not recognizing that this program is to ensure the pathway from prescription to abuse is narrowed to a trickle. No more doctor shopping, pharmacy shopping.

All in all, a proactive program to minimize the harms of what can be useful drugs. A win overall supported by all parties but not by the harm reduction advocates.

[TitleRequired]

Green Leader David Coon said Higgs was using "Trump-lite tactics … to scare people" ahead of a provincial election. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/ottawa-higgs-asylum-seekers-1.7321008

DC gets to be the first to mention Trump. How drôle.

[Pugsley]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

lirette is correct, although I fully understand where adamuptownsj is coming from. It is infuriating to see what is happening to our downtowns.

Sadly, this isn't just in OUR downtowns. I just got back from a city in the south and it was magnified 10X there compared to our problems locally. Every city, regardless of size, is dealing with this issue in EVERY jurisdiction. It is not a Trudeau issue. It isn't a Higgs issue. It is a Purdue Pharma issue and we (aka the elected representatives of us taxpayers) should have sued the company and the family that owns them for everything they've got and put it back into local programs to fix the problems they caused in the first place.

Instead, we have the right and the left pointing fingers at each other blaming each for starting the problem - when neither are really responsible for causing it, just poorly managing it AND not making those truly responsible accountable financially for it.

[sailor734]

Coming soon to the Waterloo Village Area?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/montreal-street-kingston-ontario-police-stab-1.7321358

Two people are dead and a third critically injured after a multiple stabbing near a safe injection site and encampment in Kingston, Ont., on Thursday morning.

In an update late Thursday afternoon, Kingston Mayor Bryan Paterson said the violence unfolded near the city's Consumption Treatment Services (CTS) and Integrated Care Hub (ICH) at 661 Montreal St.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Coming soon to the Waterloo Village Area?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/montreal-street-kingston-ontario-police-stab-1.7321358

Two people are dead and a third critically injured after a multiple stabbing near a safe injection site and encampment in Kingston, Ont., on Thursday morning.

In an update late Thursday afternoon, Kingston Mayor Bryan Paterson said the violence unfolded near the city's Consumption Treatment Services (CTS) and Integrated Care Hub (ICH) at 661 Montreal St.

There’s a Kingston in Atlantic Canada?

I’ve heard Portland, ME makes Saint John look tame regarding open drug use…

[TitleRequired]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Coming soon to the Waterloo Village Area?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/montreal-street-kingston-ontario-police-stab-1.7321358

Two people are dead and a third critically injured after a multiple stabbing near a safe injection site and encampment in Kingston, Ont., on Thursday morning.

In an update late Thursday afternoon, Kingston Mayor Bryan Paterson said the violence unfolded near the city's Consumption Treatment Services (CTS) and Integrated Care Hub (ICH) at 661 Montreal St.

Apparently the Rockwood park lockdown recently was a fight regarding the Harrigan lake day shelter. So we probably had a near-miss.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Drug issues are bad in SJ and NB as whole, but come on, there’s much bigger issues that need government attention. Susan Holt’s Liberals might not be as callous as Higgs’s PCs, but Higgs talks a big talk for a guy that’s been premier throughout what has been the worst stretch of homelessness and public drug use issues in the modern history of NB.

Why exactly should anyone trust Higgs to fix the situation, when he’s largely at fault for the current situation.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

Drug issues are bad in SJ and NB as whole, but come on, there’s much bigger issues that need government attention. Susan Holt’s Liberals might not be as callous as Higgs’s PCs, but Higgs talks a big talk for a guy that’s been premier throughout what has been the worst stretch of homelessness and public drug use issues in the modern history of NB.

Why exactly should anyone trust Higgs to fix the situation, when he’s largely at fault for the current situation.

I hardly think you can hold any politician "largely at fault for the current situation". Not doing enough or putting enough resources into trying to deal with it? Sure.....but the issue of increasingly common drug abuse and homelessness exists in every jurisdiction in North America. The problem seems highly resistant to government "fixes" whether it is in liberal, progressive jurisdictions or ones where the government is ultra conservative.

Doesn't seem like anybody has come up with a workable solution yet......at least not one that is affordable in a country where productivity continues to slip and government spending has grown dramatically in recent years.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by sailor734

I hardly think you can hold any politician "largely at fault for the current situation". Not doing enough or putting enough resources into trying to deal with it? Sure.....but the issue of increasingly common drug abuse and homelessness exists in every jurisdiction in North America. The problem seems highly resistant to government "fixes" whether it is in liberal, progressive jurisdictions or ones where the government is ultra conservative.

Doesn't seem like anybody has come up with a workable solution yet......at least not one that is affordable in a country where productivity continues to slip and government spending has grown dramatically in recent years.

Well, Higgs is certainly trying to make the case he and his party are the ones to vote for on the issue of cleaning up the drugs and crime plaguing our cities.

It was pretty revealing when the other two party leaders outlined their plans for Saint John and mainly talked about tax reform, healthcare, recreation, and big picture stuff… while Higgs basically focussed on the need to be tougher on drug users. He’s been in power for almost 6 years, why should we believe he’ll change things starting in 2025? He’s had 6 years in power as the problem has gotten progressively worse. I guess he thinks we should blame Trudeau instead?