Downtown Ottawa Revitalization Initiatives

[AuxTown]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

That's the point though. New residents are not going to save a city's CBD.

I agree 100%. The only thing that might save downtown is a new events centre. There will always be residents downtown....there is more currently than there has ever been, but they are not going to be enough to have the 'vibrant' downtown we envision.

The arena at Lebreton will bring thousands into the core during the dead hours and encourage workers to stick around after work; something they never used to do. Some might even adjust their work schedule on gamedays to work a bit later then pop down for the game. I genuinely think that if the new arena doesn't happen this city is going to continue its slow decline to —.

[lrt's friend]

Originally Posted by AuxTown

I agree 100%. The only thing that might save downtown is a new events centre. There will always be residents downtown....there is more currently than there has ever been, but they are not going to be enough to have the 'vibrant' downtown we envision.

The arena at Lebreton will bring thousands into the core during the dead hours and encourage workers to stick around after work; something they never used to do. Some might even adjust their work schedule on gamedays to work a bit later then pop down for the game. I genuinely think that if the new arena doesn't happen this city is going to continue its slow decline to —.

Downtown has been in decline for decades but greatly accelerated with the pandemic.

Any solution that really makes a difference will need to be multi-pronged. More downtown residents, more office works, more attractions including an NHL arena. It all has to be a part of it. The arena may make the office more attractive again.

I am alarmed how the feds are organizing the office so that immediate coworkers are no longer working at adjacent desks. Relationships are not as easy to establish if the worker next to you changes everyday

It is going to take a lot of effort to make downtown lively again after decades of decline.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by lrt's friend

Downtown has been in decline for decades but greatly accelerated with the pandemic.

Any solution that really makes a difference will need to be multi-pronged. More downtown residents, more office works, more attractions including an NHL arena. It all has to be a part of it. The arena may make the office more attractive again.

I am alarmed how the feds are organizing the office so that immediate coworkers are no longer working at adjacent desks. Relationships are not as easy to establish if the worker next to you changes everyday

It is going to take a lot of effort to make downtown lively again after decades of decline.

I don't think it is correct to say downtown has been in decline for decades. The Glebe, Westboro and Beechwood are more vibrant than 5 10 or 15 years ago for sure. The Byward market has lost its nightlife but is also more vibrant than during the day when it was a few shoppers getting tomatoes and getting back in their car.

As you get older you get less interested in venturing downtown but a new generation with new interests fills the void. Sandwich shops on Sparks were never exactly a thriving scene even when bureaucrats were there 5 days a week sitting next to each other.

[Acajack]

As has been alluded to I think a distinction should be made between "downtown Ottawa" and "Ottawa CBD". Central areas like the Byward Market, Elgin, Bank Street (south of the CBD) and even Rideau St. to some degree, are reasonably vibrant.

A lot of the most vibrant cities in the world can often have fairly large office districts that are fairly quiet outside of the Monday-Friday 9 to 5.

[AuxTown]

Originally Posted by Acajack

As has been alluded to I think a distinction should be made between "downtown Ottawa" and "Ottawa CBD". Central areas like the Byward Market, Elgin, Bank Street (south of the CBD) and even Rideau St. to some degree, are reasonably vibrant.

A lot of the most vibrant cities in the world can often have fairly large office districts that are fairly quiet outside of the Monday-Friday 9 to 5.

Paris is a great example. La Defense is a literal ghost town after hours. But obviously the central neighbourhoods of Paris are one of the most vibrant urban spaces in the world.

I appreciate the multi-pronged comment as there really isn't just one fix for the CBD. Winnipeg has a beautiful downtown arena and it definitely hasn't saved their downtown from being kind of a dead zone, but I would say it has more to do with local attitudes/culture than anything. Ottawa is so much closer to being a "big city" but we just can't seem to make the last couple big steps.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

As has been alluded to I think a distinction should be made between "downtown Ottawa" and "Ottawa CBD". Central areas like the Byward Market, Elgin, Bank Street (south of the CBD) and even Rideau St. to some degree, are reasonably vibrant.

A lot of the most vibrant cities in the world can often have fairly large office districts that are fairly quiet outside of the Monday-Friday 9 to 5.

Good point. The less vibrant Sussex to Wellington has always been a laggard. Sparks looks better to me right now than it did 15 years ago tbh. The north part of Bank Street as well.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Good point. The less vibrant Sussex to Wellington has always been a laggard. Sparks looks better to me right now than it did 15 years ago tbh. The north part of Bank Street as well.

You really think that about Sparks? I wasn't going down there much 15 years ago so I can't compare but over the past year I had some gigs that brought me to Ottawa CBD fairly regularly. I'd often go walking down Sparks at lunch time and was shocked at the number of empty storefronts. But I guess it may have been worse in the past?

Agree about the north part of Bank though. It's pretty decent now compared to what it's been at any point in my lifetime.

I guess at this point we could do a thread on what Ottawa's true main street is: Rideau or Bank?

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

You really think that about Sparks? I wasn't going down there much 15 years ago so I can't compare but over the past year I had some gigs that brought me to Ottawa CBD fairly regularly. I'd often go walking down Sparks at lunch time and was shocked at the number of empty storefronts. But I guess it may have been worse in the past?

Agree about the north part of Bank though. It's pretty decent now compared to what it's been at any point in my lifetime.

I guess at this point we could do a thread on what Ottawa's true main street is: Rideau or Bank?

It's debatable and I guess sitting here post summer your impression is better as my worst 2000s memories are of it windswept and abandoned at 5:02 pm on a November Tuesday. It certainly isn't a collapse like some parts of San Francisco have seen. It was never that vibrant. Rideau is also possibly better than pre LRT when the busses chased everyone away. I also think the lack of policing on George Cumberland through to Murray means Rideau is less dodgy than say 2010 when the police were more active at least between the shelters.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by Acajack

As has been alluded to I think a distinction should be made between "downtown Ottawa" and "Ottawa CBD". Central areas like the Byward Market, Elgin, Bank Street (south of the CBD) and even Rideau St. to some degree, are reasonably vibrant.

A lot of the most vibrant cities in the world can often have fairly large office districts that are fairly quiet outside of the Monday-Friday 9 to 5.

Yeah, in ViBrAnT ToRoNtO you can bowl on Bay Street after the bankers go home.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Rideau is also possibly better than pre LRT when the busses chased everyone away.

How so? What buses would have been chasing people away, that aren't running there now?

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

How so? What buses would have been chasing people away, that aren't running there now?

Not the buses, but the SHELTERS.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Not the buses, but the SHELTERS.

I guess it was mostly shelters though the lumbering busses also made it less pleasant than it is now though it's not like it's lined with patios or anything.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

I guess it was mostly shelters though the lumbering busses also made it less pleasant than it is now though it's not like it's lined with patios or anything.

But... the buses, they continue to lumber?

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Uhuniau

But... the buses, they continue to lumber?

They certainly do but that's the bonus of the cut service. You can sit on a Sunday afternoon on the Clocktower patio and maybe only see 3 or 4 busses go by while you have your beer. Soon they'll be whisper quiet busses (maybe).
The locked doors doesn't help that little section of Rideau but it's still an improvement over 15 years ago when it was abandoned and really low value retail (some of which is still there on both sides of the street.

[ponyboycurtis]

Here is the thing. "Downtown" Ottawa, however you wish to define it... For this example lets use north of the 417 and bordered by Bronson and Elgin is just an incredibly uninteresting place to be. I am going to exclude Wellington in this argument.

The one place that should be interesting and bustling is Sparks st. but we all know the story of that. Aside from awful hardscaping that is patched together even something newer with potential to be interesting like the CBC building turns its back on the street. The ground floor studios face the interior and you are pretty much looking at the backside of partition walls and server racks with filthy windows.

We lack quality public spaces.

The only public square we have is at World Exchange and that has been under construction for a while now. They have some type of permanent building there and I can only pray it has a public washroom.

Dundonald park is nice.

Tech Wall dog park has cool spray painted walls but is not particularly interesting and has ZERO landscaping.

The grounds around the Museum of Nature are nice but not a destination.

McNabb park is probably the best public space in "downtown" outside of Parliament Hill. The vibe at the skate park is great and all the other areas of the park are in active use throughout the day and evening. No public washrooms though which is a big strike against it given how busy it is.

So let's assume every shop and restaurant stays open until 9pm. That's great. But where do you go from there? The connections we have aren't particularly pleasant. Our city just isn't designed to be able to easily go from one place to another and link a bunch of shopping and dining experiences together on foot and enjoy the day. Not in my estimation at least. All of our "good" streets are spread out from each other. Preston, Bank and Elgin all have their charm but its a bit of a slog to go from one to the other.

Outside of the argument of office hours.. downtown feels kind of vacant because there isn't much reason to spend much time there outside of a specific destination for most people.

I just took my second visit to Lithuania and spent roughly a week in Vilnius. City pop. 600k Metro pop. 850k. The old town area is incredibly vibrant. There is probably a dozen town squares or open market areas with facing shops. The open market area could either be fully open for stalls or lined with trees and benches, there was lots of variations. The smallest square would probably be around the size of the one at World Exchange. It's not a particularly large city either but nonetheless this type of area was extensive and easily linked. Taking a car into this area would either be prohibited or a massive headache.

Aside from the obvious 3/4 over 1 apartment shop configurations it was the pedestrian scale streets and inter connected public space that makes it a destination. Oh.. and all the neighborhood convenience shops are just scaled down grocery stores of the same brand and same pricing. Fresh fruit, bread, deli, paper products and cleaners, beer etc. Here... They only serve diabetes.

We will simply not achieve that. A sandwich shop staying open until 9pm is meaningless if there is no reason to hang around and connect to other places.

William st. is the only place in Ottawa I can think of that feels like you might be in Europe for half a moment. How the rest of the market and York st. isn't being aggressively converted is beyond me. All of our policy is reactionary. Plus all the temp vendors packed up over the labor day weekend.

Even that one little square on Bank st between Albert and Slater is just fenced off and unused. Vibrant business need vibrant spaces to be all they can be.

And to narrow it down, there is simply no reason to choose the area hemmed in by Wellington/ Nepean, Bronson/Elgin. None. ZERO. There is no reason to go there. Shops staying open later will only ever cater to the thankfully growing local population.

Expanding the notion of "Downtown" to include the Market, Little Italy, Lebreton needs to be the focus. That is were our potential is. The Aquaduct district has the ability to connect neighborhoods in a meaningful way. I pray we do not botch that. A rework of the Market and York st can connect you from Rideau st to Nepeans point with the new bridge. Connections are whats needed more than some stupid shop in what would be Torontos financial district improving their hours.

I could give a rats — about the opening hours of a food shop on Kent st.

I check the Ottawa subreddit everyday and I think a lot of the opinions there are so short sighted.

I know it's not exactly fair to compare European town centers but the point I'm trying to make is it's really about public spaces one way or another.

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

They certainly do but that's the bonus of the cut service. You can sit on a Sunday afternoon on the Clocktower patio and maybe only see 3 or 4 busses go by while you have your beer. Soon they'll be whisper quiet busses (maybe).

Has service been cut on Rideau, though, relative to the LRT construction years?

[Uhuniau]

Originally Posted by ponyboycurtis

The ground floor studios face the interior and you are pretty much looking at the backside of partition walls and server racks with filthy windows.

Promise made, promise broken on CBC's part.

The only public square we have is at World Exchange and that has been under construction for a while now. They have some type of permanent building there and I can only pray it has a public washroom.

It has not been under construction any more for a while.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by acottawa

Say you convert 10 marginal office buildings and bring another 2000 downtown.

What “sustainable and interesting” commercial scene” do 2000 people support? Maybe a shoppers and a convenience store.

If condos were a key to vibrancy then the west side of downtown along Laurier should be thriving. It is not.

On the same token what vibrancy do a bunch of cubicle farms and supporting enterprise bring outside of work hours? The push for residents is so that they provide baseline activity that doesn't make those areas feel like you're in
"The Purge" after 5pm.

Clearly more attractions and amenities that have city wide appeal are needed in the core to boost foot traffic. Maybe that's doable. Maybe not. I guess it's the Night Mayor's job to figure it out.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

On the same token what vibrancy do a bunch of cubicle farms and supporting enterprise bring outside of work hours? The push for residents is so that they provide baseline activity that doesn't make those areas feel like you're in
"The Purge" after 5pm.

Clearly more attractions and amenities that have city wide appeal are needed in the core to boost foot traffic. Maybe that's doable. Maybe not. I guess it's the Night Mayor's job to figure it out.

Maybe Polievre will cut the headcount in half so those remaining will need to work till 8pm and have to run out for dinner as you see in normal downtowns.

We could certainly open Sparks to anybody who wants to use a street for something. There are pretty lame festivals that always seem to be packed selling $15 candy covered strawberries so the desire for events is there for sure.

[lrt's friend]

It is quite apparent that people don't want to go downtown. I am a lifer and I can remember my mother regularly went downtown when there was no bus service in Gloucester Township. I have seen pictures of the market being ridiculously busy and several movie theatres with round the block line ups in the evening. The world has changed and downtown has suffered badly

I visited Gothenburg Sweden in 2018 (metro 1,000,000) and it was bustling. They don't have a subway but something much better, a multimodal transit station where buses, regional trains and trams all come together.

We need to look to Europe for inspiration. It will take generations but we are already urbanizing so slowly we are improving our bones. The challenge is bring back what we lost so downtown is more attractive. At some point, we need to improve transit, so more can reach downtown without a transfer. European cities do this , unless they are so big that frequent service is available in the evening and on weekends so that people can go out for fun without a car.

We have a lot work to do.