WINNIPEG | Portage Place Redevelopment

[Hecate]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

It would be a huge let down at this point for the project to be cancelled. Based on TNSE running this, I would say very low chance of that happening. They only have the richest person in Canada in their back pocket.

So why do they need so much funding, and so many kickbacks and tax breaks?

[bomberjet]

That's how they get rich.

[Biff]

Originally Posted by FactaNV

What do you mean by the social aspects?

I believe they were talking about "neighborhood services and urban green spaces, some sort of community centre". I think that the meaning was they are removing a lot/most of the commercial aspects and replacing it with community based programming that doesn't generate a lot of revenue.

[WestEndWander]

Originally Posted by Hecate

So why do they need so much funding, and so many kickbacks and tax breaks?

Edit

[cllew]

Originally Posted by Hecate

So why do they need so much funding, and so many kickbacks and tax breaks?

Developers build with OPM not their own. (Other Peoples Money)

That's one of the things that sunk Canada's Olympia & York group (aka Reichmann family) as they took on too much debt and then the commercial realty market crashed leaving them with mortgages and nobody to rent their buildings at the prices they were asking to make their payments.

[Labroco]

Originally Posted by FactaNV

What do you mean by the social aspects?

Spaces that are required to be constructed and maintained yet do not create a positive cash flow putting pressure on the financial viability of the whole project even though there may be government financial incentives and grants.

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by Labroco

Spaces that are required to be constructed and maintained yet do not create a positive cash flow putting pressure on the financial viability of the whole project even though there may be government financial incentives and grants.

Fair enough, is that not what rent is for though? I imagine the province and the non profits will still be paying rent on these facilities.

[Hecate]

Originally Posted by FactaNV

Fair enough, is that not what rent is for though? I imagine the province and the non profits will still be paying rent on these facilities.

Top dollar rents no doubt… end corporate welfare!

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by Hecate

Top dollar rents no doubt… end corporate welfare!

I would normally agree but man, anything to reclaim that rotting behemoth. It's not only an eyesore, it depressed the whole of West downtown. In a perfect world I say tear it down and let the private sector build new buildings but in this market, we both know it would be a gigantic surface lot for 25 years and then maybe and only maybe would they put something on the space (after receiving the subsidies that we were trying to avoid).

[pspeid]

Originally Posted by FactaNV

I would normally agree but man, anything to reclaim that rotting behemoth. It's not only an eyesore, it depressed the whole of West downtown. In a perfect world I say tear it down and let the private sector build new buildings but in this market, we both know it would be a gigantic surface lot for 25 years and then maybe and only maybe would they put something on the space (after receiving the subsidies that we were trying to avoid).

Yes it's delusional to expect that any out-of-town developers would want to take on PP without massive public subsidies. Starlight made that offer a few years ago and nothing came of it.

I'm totally in favour of the True North proposal, whatever it's public monies. IMO better to give public money subsidies to a local group who actually want to grow and improve the city, than some out-of-towners who don't give a rat's ass about us.

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by pspeid

Yes it's delusional to expect that any out-of-town developers would want to take on PP without massive public subsidies. Starlight made that offer a few years ago and nothing came of it.

I'm totally in favour of the True North proposal, whatever it's public monies. IMO better to give public money subsidies to a local group who actually want to grow and improve the city, than some out-of-towners who don't give a rat's ass about us.

Exactly. At least very least a safer downtown is in TNSE's economic interest, for their other ventures. Some form out of Toronto or New York wouldn't give a shit.

[pspeid]

This was just on the CBC news website today:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...-ask-1.7319934

I'm not sure if this is new information or a re-statement of old information? Either way it seems a signal the project isn't dead, which is a good thing.

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by pspeid

This was just on the CBC news website today:

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/manit...-ask-1.7319934

I'm not sure if this is new information or a re-statement of old information? Either way it seems a signal the project isn't dead, which is a good thing.

Sure it's a lot of money but it doesn't actually seem like a bad deal for the city. Still get some taxes and you get a major redevelopment of one of the worst examples of urban decay downtown.

[bomberjet]

Seems like good news. Also good info in the article on more specific items. Alot of money being spent by everyone.

[ColdRain&Snow]

From the article:

"Winnipeg's economic development office recommends council approve a package of assistance that includes up to $14 million worth of tax increment financing over 25 years, $10 million worth of housing grants and $16 million worth of infrastructure commitments in and around the property."

"The $10 million worth of housing grants will be split into two payments in 2025 and 2026, using federal housing accelerator money, the report says. The money will flow to a new non-profit organization directed by the Southern Chiefs' Organization and True North, which are overseeing the housing component of the project.

The $16 million worth of infrastructure work includes $7.5 million to extend Edmonton Street to the north, $6.5 million to build a new skywalk and upgrade existing sidewalks, and $2 million to help build a community drop-in space in the middle of the mall. City money for the drop-in centre was set aside in the 2023 budget."

So the City isn't actually giving any money to True North upfront. $14 million is coming from Tax Increment Financing, which as far as I understand is common for projects downtown. $10 million is coming from the federal government through the Housing Accelerator Fund. The last $16 million is infrastructure upgrades including a new skywalk.

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by ColdRain&Snow

From the article:

"Winnipeg's economic development office recommends council approve a package of assistance that includes up to $14 million worth of tax increment financing over 25 years, $10 million worth of housing grants and $16 million worth of infrastructure commitments in and around the property."

"The $10 million worth of housing grants will be split into two payments in 2025 and 2026, using federal housing accelerator money, the report says. The money will flow to a new non-profit organization directed by the Southern Chiefs' Organization and True North, which are overseeing the housing component of the project.

The $16 million worth of infrastructure work includes $7.5 million to extend Edmonton Street to the north, $6.5 million to build a new skywalk and upgrade existing sidewalks, and $2 million to help build a community drop-in space in the middle of the mall. City money for the drop-in centre was set aside in the 2023 budget."

So the City isn't actually giving any money to True North upfront. $14 million is coming from Tax Increment Financing, which as far as I understand is common for projects downtown. $10 million is coming from the federal government through the Housing Accelerator Fund. The last $16 million is infrastructure upgrades including a new skywalk.

Nice.to see Winnipeg get a deal these days. Doesn't happen often haha.

[pspeid]

Video of interview with Gillingham on PP financing announcement:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIGFl0vVbrI

[Wpg_Guy]

https://clkapps.winnipeg.ca/DMIS/Vie...=1726066511305

[BlackDog204]

When he passes away, they need to erect statues of Mark Chipman and David Thomson.

[Malcsta]

The east tower seems to vary in height across those renders. It looks like its ~18 storeys in the first one, then closer to 13/14 in the next few..?