Winnipeg Roads & Infrastructure

[Carboy15]

Originally Posted by plrh

What do you mean by suburbanizing Fort Rouge or the North End?

Like a redevelopment of the old areas. Giving them more modern suburban like amenities with parks, open space, apartments, etc.

[zalf]

'Infill' might be the word you're looking for. I don't think Fort Rouge is really hurting for parks. North End could use some more, but I don't know how one would go about it without a fairly aggressive expropriation program for this city.

[The Jabroni]

Originally Posted by zalf

'Infill' might be the word you're looking for. I don't think Fort Rouge is really hurting for parks. North End could use some more, but I don't know how one would go about it without a fairly aggressive expropriation program for this city.

I didn't realize this until earlier this year, but there are what's called "Tot Lots" between Polson and Inkster in almost every block between Main and the CPKCR Selkirk line. Some of them are just open grass fields with shade trees, others are playgrounds with grass fields.

Then when you go over the tracks west on Polson, on the northside on each block are bays or crescents, which is just a patch of grass in each bay for every block until McPhillips.

[bomberjet]

Jabroni, I think that's a perfect example of suburban style curvilinear street network vs grid network. There's about 50% more homes in the grid network vs the curvilinear network in that arrangement. Would be interesting to see total value and tax comparison of the two.

[bodaggin]

Curvilinear gets MORE density because there's no back lane deadspace. They can still sandwich all the houses in on small lots.

I'm not sure why curvilinear gets so much hate. It's far superior.

It has better road hierarchy and access. I live off Ness, a grid style. It's horrible. I can't make left turns across Ness because the road is too busy. Similar issues happen on Corydon/Grant/Academy. But with curvilinear, the "main curved drag" only serves the subdivision. It's not a thru road with outsider traffic. This keeps its traffic much lower, and easier to access. A properly designed main drag is no further than 200m from any single house too.

A properly designed curvi can also snake bike paths through with minimal contact with cars. Massively safer. A grid-style can only dedicate bike lanes, but those still create many intersects with cars. Creating danger and stress.

And let's not forget the localized drainage of curvi. Man-made ponds for storm drains keeps drainage infrastructure shorter and more localized. With the benefit of a lake.

[EdwardTH]

Originally Posted by bodaggin

Curvilinear gets MORE density because there's no back lane deadspace. They can still sandwich all the houses in on small lots.

That's demonstrably false. You can literally count the houses on google maps and see that's not true.

Originally Posted by bodaggin

I'm not sure why curvilinear gets so much hate. It's far superior.

It's superior for literally ONE thing and that's moving auto traffic. Which is a self-defeating thing. Curvi is unanimously associated with more car dependence because walking and transit are far better on a grid. More people drive, which means all the collectors bring more traffic to the arterial roads, which means gridlock, expensive infrastructure, and businesses confined to awful stroads that no one really wants to spend time at. It also means more dead space for parking at those destinations. Grids facilitate actual mixed-use neighbourhoods, corner stores and high streets instead of stroads and endless parking lots.

Originally Posted by bodaggin

A properly designed curvi can also snake bike paths through with minimal contact with cars. Massively safer. A grid-style can only dedicate bike lanes, but those still create many intersects with cars. Creating danger and stress.

Those snake-y bike paths are great for recreation, but very indirect and not great for actually getting anywhere. Ask any commuter cyclist and they'll tell you they'd rather have a protected lane on a direct route, adjacent to businesses etc, than spend an extra 20 minutes winding through some suburban path. Proper protected lanes are plenty safe.

[bodaggin]

Originally Posted by EdwardTH

That's demonstrably false. You can literally count the houses on google maps and see that's not true.

Compare apples to apples though. Lot size and house size matters. Comparing large Charleswood lots to tiny Sage Creek lots wouldn't be fair, just like comparing Lindenwoods lots to small West End lots isn't fair either. Go for a Google map adventure to Edmonton, south of the Henday. They're crammed in the curvi's.

Originally Posted by EdwardTH

It's superior for literally ONE thing and that's moving auto traffic. Which is a self-defeating thing. Curvi is unanimously associated with more car dependence because walking and transit are far better on a grid. Grids facilitate actual mixed-use neighbourhoods, corner stores and high streets instead of stroads and endless parking lots.

Also disagree. Most curvi houses are within 200m of the main drag for bus stops. And since most "thru-traffic" is eliminated, you actually get less neighborhood traffic. Commercial goes at the entrance points, away from houses. As does high density, close to the high capacity high speed corridors for better transit access.

Originally Posted by EdwardTH

Ask any commuter cyclist and they'll tell you they'd rather have a protected lane on a direct route, adjacent to businesses etc, than spend an extra 20 minutes winding through some suburban path. Proper protected lanes are plenty safe.

Fair on winding. Can be solved with design. Segregated paths still trump bike lanes for safety though. Cars and bikes/pedestrians should meet as rarely as possible for the highest safety. I can think of 0 cement trucks hitting cyclists while on a segregated bike path 50m away from the nearest road. But it's virtually impossible to segregate bikes/cars on grid style.

[cllew]

I see that the owner of Gateway Packers is objecting to the city accessing their easement thru his property for the interceptor sewer that crosses the Red River to connect to the city pump station on Archibald.

They city wants to do an interior camera inspection of that part of the interceptor line as they have found problems in other sections of the line in the area. I'm not sure why Sheldon Blank would object to a camera truck parking over one of the access manholes on the city easement for a day or so?

Maybe its because he is not happy with the way the city has treated him in the past with the buildings on that land?

[FactaNV]

Originally Posted by cllew

I see that the owner of Gateway Packers is objecting to the city accessing their easement thru his property for the interceptor sewer that crosses the Red River to connect to the city pump station on Archibald.

They city wants to do an interior camera inspection of that part of the interceptor line as they have found problems in other sections of the line in the area. I'm not sure why Sheldon Blank would object to a camera truck parking over one of the access manholes on the city easement for a day or so?

Maybe its because he is not happy with the way the city has treated him in the past with the buildings on that land?

Is that even a thing? Can you object to a utility easement?

[cllew]

Originally Posted by FactaNV

Is that even a thing? Can you object to a utility easement?

I don't think he is objecting to the easement as the interceptor has been there since at least 1937, but they are not providing access to it.

The city report does not state how access is being blocked but I am guessing the site probably has locked gates on its fence line to try and prevent encampments from starting on the property.

As inspecting the lines are not an environmental emergency I don't think the city can force their way onto the property, and can only fine the holding company/ property manager for non compliance.

[FactaNV]

Anyone know what's going on on West Broadway? They shut down all left turns to Sherbrook from Osborne and have two lanes closed on the North side. There was no public notice to the neighbourhood, least none at my place a block to the south.

[rivercity]

https://legacy.winnipeg.ca/publicwor...osures-map.stm

[bomberjet]

Broadway
Completely closed
Boundaries
Osborne St N to Furby St
Direction
Westbound
Expected to Start
September 03, 2024
Expected to End
September 20, 2024
Traffic Effect
All westbound lanes, closed for electrical/lighting/signals work. Both directions will be maintained in the eb lanes.

[bodaggin]

Dug up accident data. Worst intersection is McGillivray @ Kenaston. Given that it is also among the most congested from this exercise, as well as this one, I'd put it in top 3 needed overpasses in Winnipeg. Maybe #1. This overpass is needed exponentially more than Perimeter at Oak Bluff. Perimeter overpass should be mothballed and province should chip 60-70% in for a SPUI interchange at Kenaston/McGillivray instead. Digging out of the infrastructure deficit requires ruthless prioritization. Oak Bluff ain't it.

There's a "level of government" issue playing out. Winnipeg accounts for 65% of Manitoba's GDP but doesn't get nearly 65% of the road money in return for the tax dollars they pay. These 2 levels of gov need to work together to accurately allot funds to who paid them. Right now rural is running off with the bag.

[bomberjet]

Perimeteritis is the cause. Government can't pander to them City folk who are scared to go outside the Perimeter. Or something.

We look at that list every so often. And don't really understand why nothing is being done.

#4 is a piss off. They spent so much money and effort widening the roads and making 3 left turn lanes ffs.

#6 has an interchange and still has high numbers. I'm assuming that's all to do on the ramps at Pembina and on the bridge itself over Bishop.

[bodaggin]

Originally Posted by bomberjet

#4 is a piss off. They spent so much money and effort widening the roads and making 3 left turn lanes ffs.

#6 has an interchange and still has high numbers. I'm assuming that's all to do on the ramps at Pembina and on the bridge itself over Bishop.

Nailed it on Sterling Lyon BomberJet. It's 7-lanes wide each side. Nuts. Pembina/Bishop is quirky. There's still lights mixed in there. A full clover wouldn't have this issue IMO. Cost is peanuts to fix it too. Add 2 ramps. Although I'm not sure whose idea it was to build a new apartment block at the edge of the potential east loop. WTF? Do these people think?

Back to my "MPI should dump profits into bad intersections/roads" idea: Average claim is $4,000. So Roughly $1.2 million per year is spent on McGillivray collisions.

In 30yrs, that's $36 million. That's almost cost/benefit from an insurance vantage point alone.

[borkborkbork]

Originally Posted by bodaggin

Although I'm not sure whose idea it was to build a new apartment block at the edge of the potential east loop. WTF? Do these people think?

They probably think, $23M building, generating at least a quarter mil in annual property tax revenue.

It's not cheap for the city to hold onto land!

[BlackDog204]

Originally Posted by bodaggin

Dug up accident data. Worst intersection is McGillivray @ Kenaston. Given that it is also among the most congested

I wish we could go.back in time, 20 years ago, and construct a huge roundabout at that intersection, as well as the Kenaston/Sterling Lyon intersection. Imagine how many lives could have been saved.



Sure, there would be accidents, but mainly confined to.minor injuries and side swiped vehicles.

[optimusREIM]

Originally Posted by BlackDog204

I wish we could go.back in time, 20 years ago, and construct a huge roundabout at that intersection, as well as the Kenaston/Sterling Lyon intersection. Imagine how many lives could have been saved.



Sure, there would be accidents, but mainly confined to.minor injuries and side swiped vehicles.

How many fatalities have there even been at this intersection? The traffic volume there easily justifies a grade separation.

[bodaggin]

Originally Posted by optimusREIM

How many fatalities have there even been at this intersection? The traffic volume there easily justifies a grade separation.

None that I know of. But MPI doesn't release full accident data by location. They prefer to villainize drivers for accidents, and not the sub-par road quality. It's always that evil driver's fault (slow down, give us more money). Even though bad road design creates the accident conditions.

Like virtually none of the lights in this city are even sensor'd. That alone would stop accidents. This place is third world.