Quebec, the French Language, and Quebecois Identity

[Acajack]

Maybe not to that many Anglo-Canadians because there are Canadian hangups and denialism at play, but definitely for many many Americans and people from other countries, the fact that Montreal is francophone is a huge part of the allure.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Maybe more like Paris.

Tall order! Almost all Western cities feel small compared to Paris, with the exception of NYC, LA, and London.

I don't know if Montréal can ever grow to have 10 million inhabitants in its metro area. Not that it would necessarily be a good thing in terms of quality of life (see Toronto).

What I'd like to see is Québec City growing to have more than 2 million people. It has the potential to be a real great place to live, with global warming helping to make its winters less harsh than in the past, and a landscape + historical quarters far more interesting than Montréal + easy access to the best parts of Québec out there in the east. Definitely a better alternative than Montréal IMO if ("IF") it grew to become as large as, say, San Diego or Seattle.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Tall order! Almost all Western cities feel small compared to Paris, with the exception of NYC, LA, and London.

I don't know if Montréal can ever grow to have 10 million inhabitants in its metro area. Not that it would necessarily be a good thing in terms of quality of life (see Toronto).

What I'd like to see is Québec City growing to have more than 2 million people. It has the potential to be a real great place to live, with global warming helping to make its winters less harsh as in the past, and a landscape + historical quarters far more interesting than Montréal + easy access to the best parts of Québec out there in the east. Definitely a better alternative than Montréal IMO if ("IF") it grew to become as large as, say, San Diego or Seattle.

I wasn't saying that Montreal would become a city on the level of Paris. Just that the social and population structure would resemble Paris more. As I said, it already feels a bit like that in some parts.

Wesh!

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

What I'd like to see is Québec City growing to have more than 2 million people. It has the potential to be a real great place to live, with global warming helping to make its winters less harsh as in the past, and a landscape + historical quarters far more interesting than Montréal + easy access to the best parts of Québec out there in the east. Definitely a better alternative than Montréal IMO if ("IF") it grew to become as large as, say, San Diego or Seattle.

That would be a tall order, given how limited Quebec City's private sector is. Companies prefer to locate in Montreal because it has the country's best and biggest bilingual talent pool.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by Acajack

I wasn't saying that Montreal would become a city on the level of Paris. Just that the social and population structure would resemble Paris more. As I said, it already feels a bit like that in some parts.

Wesh!

Montreal will be Paris without la Cité

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

though I think the people who can't deal with ordering Indian food in English are already for seperation.

It's one thing to order Indian food in English abroad, it's another thing to order it in English AT HOME. I know I would have an issue if I had to order food in English at home. Most people would in fact (after the first 2 or 3 months of fun exoticism at having to use English in restaurants here, people would very soon tire, and then find it pretty annoying).

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

Initiatives like the REV and the pietonnes are without a doubt inspired by Paris. Without the French linguistic and cultural links, I would find it hard to believe Montreal would continue to follow in the footsteps of Paris in defining its modern design language.

Not necessarily the best influence we have on Québec here.

I'm with team USA here! Make it easy for people, don't turn the city into a complicated nightmare for suburbanites.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Not necessarily the best influence we have on Québec here.

I'm with team USA here! Make it easy for people, don't turn the city into a complicated nightmare for suburbanites.

No one said that the influences all had to be positive. Only that they exist. And they definitely do.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

Montreal will be Paris without la Cité

What's "la Cité"?

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Acajack

No one said that the influences all had to be positive. Only that they exist. And they definitely do.

I'd say Montréal would start resembling Paris when you have that sort of music played on FM radio (the sort of music you can never hear on the radio in Anglo-America, but which several Paris radio stations play; ironically that music is American, but too "niche" for US commercial radios):

• Video Link

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Or so they think, but in fact the way Montréal is is all related to language, whether they realize it or not, otherwise Montréal would just be another Detroit or St Louis, two cities that used to be French too.

American cities have incredible diversity. Certainly Santa Fe or most of the southwest is more different from New York than Montreal is on most things.

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

It's one thing to order Indian food in English abroad, it's another thing to order it in English AT HOME. I know I would have an issue if I had to order food in English at home. Most people would in fact (after the first 2 or 3 months of fun exoticism at having to use English in restaurants here, people would very soon tire, and then find it pretty annoying).

Yes perfectly reasonable and English Canadians especially those 200 years in Montreal feel the same way.

Montreal is one of the most bilingual cities in the world as important to its character as anything else.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

That would be a tall order, given how limited Quebec City's private sector is. Companies prefer to locate in Montreal because it has the country's best and biggest bilingual talent pool.

Québec City nonetheless grows as fast as Montréal. Between 2011 and 2021 the Québec City CMA grew by +1.00% per year, whereas the Montréal CMA grew by +0.99% per year.

At 2011-2021 rates (+1.00% per year), the Québec City CMA would have 2 million inhabitants by the end of the century. And at 2021-2023 rates (+2.11% per year!) it would reach 2 million inhabitants within 40 years.

Australia has both Sydney and Melbourne. Portugal has both Lisbon and Porto (2 million people in its metro area), and Québec will very soon have as many inhabitants as Portugal (10 million).

[Kilgore Trout]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Not necessarily the best influence we have on Québec here.

I'm with team USA here! Make it easy for people, don't turn the city into a complicated nightmare for suburbanites.

Why do suburbanites have such a hard time with the concept of taking a train into town?

Personally, I like Montreal better now that I don't need to worry about some dude from Mirabel running me over because he's doing 50 km/h on a residential street that he is using as a shortcut to get back home to the suburbs.

So many American cities are half-dead because they have spent the past 70 years catering to the needs of people who don't live there.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

American cities have incredible diversity.

Diversity within an Anglo-Saxon context. Let's not kid ourselves! No US city can remotely be compared to Montréal in terms of its uniqueness and otherness (the only one that to some extent could be compared is New Orleans, no surprise there, but it has faded considerably in recent decades, and the disappearance of the French language there has of course removed part of its cachet and uniqueness).

[Kilgore Trout]

I'm not sure if Acajack missed my point or whatever but I certainly never said that the French language is not crucial to what makes Montreal distinct. All you have to do is visit the extremely anglophone parts of town like far western NDG to see how generically North American they feel compared to the areas where French predominates — or where there has been a dynamic interaction between French, English and other cultural/linguistic influences. One of the reasons Mile End has become so popular both as a place to live and as a tourist destination is because it really captures that fluid Montreal spirit. But while it's quite an (ethnic) anglo area, it is still predominantly francophone.

The other extreme is true too, though. If the West Island feels like some kind of bootleg version of Ontario, Pointe-aux-Trembles feels like a generic place in les régions.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Québec City nonetheless grows as fast as Montréal. Between 2011 and 2021 the Québec City CMA grew by +1.00% per year, whereas the Montréal CMA grew by +0.99% per year.

At 2011-2021 rates (+1.00% per year), the Québec City CMA would have 2 million inhabitants by the end of the century. And at 2021-2023 rates (+2.11% per year!) it would reach 2 million inhabitants within 40 years.

End of the century is a long ways out, anything can happen in between. It's entirely possible that Quebec City may one day hit the 2 million threshold, but based on modern economics it won't be easy to achieve.

The growth rates of the last 2 years won't be replicated, given how toxic Trudeau's immigration ponzi schemes have become politically.

Australia has both Sydney and Melbourne. Portugal has both Lisbon and Porto (2 million people in its metro area), and Québec will very soon have as many inhabitants as Portugal (10 million).

In the modern economy, inhabitants will gravitate to where the employment clusters are. So far Quebec City just hasn't been able to develop a substantial private sector, and for the most part is a government town like Ottawa. The Australian equivalent of Montreal - Quebec City is Sydney - Canberra, even if Quebec City is far superior as a city and urban experience to Canberra.

[Kilgore Trout]

That's also why Quebec City has failed to attract as many immigrants as Montreal. Immigrants don't necessarily want to live in Montreal, many of them would prefer somewhere smaller and quieter. But Quebec City's economy is less diverse and there just aren't as many opportunities for newcomers.

[New Brisavoine]

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

Why do suburbanites have such a hard time with the concept of taking a train into town?

What's the schedule of the train? Does it run late at night? Do I have to wait for 20 or 30 minutes before getting a train? Is it safe and clean inside? Is it air conditioned in summer? Do I have to stand next to lousy and impolite people during my commute in the train? Etc. Etc.

Nothing beats a private vehicle in terms of flexibility, convenience, comfort.

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

So many American cities are half-dead because they have spent the past 70 years catering to the needs of people who don't live there.

Spanish cities are both very dynamic and lively, AND made practical for car drivers (with no blocked streets and tons of easy underground car parks). I think people who don't like cars in the cities in fact don't like cities. They probably would not have liked carts and horses in the cities back in the days. "Les embarras de Paris" was a famous book published in the 1780s. If you don't like "les embarras" of a city, then perhaps move to the countryside instead of forcing the city to ressemble a sleepy countryside?

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by New Brisavoine

Not necessarily the best influence we have on Québec here.

I'm with team USA here! Make it easy for people, don't turn the city into a complicated nightmare for suburbanites.

Given that Montreal has the most vibrant central city of a metropolis its size in North America, I think locals would call the influence a big success. Though even with all the influence, Montreal is still really easily navigable by car, it'll never fully expunge this North American reality.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by Kilgore Trout

The other extreme is true too, though. If the West Island feels like some kind of bootleg version of Ontario, Pointe-aux-Trembles feels like a generic place in les régions.

Agreed, West Island sometimes feels like an extension of the 905.