Canadian Airport Thread II

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by casper

This depends how desperate you are to fly on that specific date.

If it gets close to a strike (within a few days), Air Canada will wave all change fees and offer free refunds. That includes partial refunds for your return if your already enroute.

If they wave change fees, then you be able to log into to where you book and pick virtually any flight operated by them of their partners (United or Copa Airlines) that gets you back home at no cost. The problem with waiting is the number of empty seats on other routes may be limited.

I ended up cancelling my Air Canada flights and booking on Aeromexico instead. Too risky otherwise.

I now have a credit in my Aeroplan account I have to use by next June, so I’ve basically paid for my spring vacation for next year.

[Dominion301]

Originally Posted by Myst

Thanks.

While I’d like to look at data for a few years, and the normal swings in traffic, I think that this is the first year I’d start to call “steady” and not having big covid bounceback or unusual routings from shortages. January vs July should be a decent comparison of not just seasonal demand, but how demand shifts for domestic vs sun flying.

The stats YHZ sends out as I recall go all the way back to 2000, so if you’d like the historics, I’d say go for it and ask to get on the email list.

[nname]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

They specifically mentioned these two routes in their last quarterly update. Apparently they are both doing well.

Repost this article from the Vancouver thread:
https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com...ckets-/2123854

The aviation industry is matching the rise in demand. Air Canada increased the number of flights between Incheon and Toronto from six to seven a week from last winter. Passenger seats were increased from 298 to 400 on flights between Incheon and Vancouver from this summer. The company is also considering starting regular flights on the Incheon to Montreal route, which is currently scheduled to operate temporarily through October.

Now this confirmed that YUL-ICN is a temporary route for this summer, and they still deciding whether to make it a regular (seasonal) flight or not. So the new YUL-NAP may very well coming from the 4x weekly here. But still, if they decide the make the route permanent, it wouldn't be hard to trim 3x or 4x weekly from all the YUL-Europe offering to restart the route.

[Justanothermember]

How has the AC YVR-SIN route been doing since its inception?

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by zahav

I am not distinguishing between LGW and LHR, London is London, and considering BA serves both, it is only fair to include the totals, not just LHR, that makes no sense. It is YVR-London capacity regardless of which airport they use.


Weekly Seat Comparison
BA 777 18x weekly: 5,344
BA 747 twice daily: 4,830

Sure, and I respect that.

In my book however, 4,800 seats to LHR is still better than 5,300 seats split between LHR and LGW, because I do distinguish between Heathrow and Gatwick. Airlines (and frequent fliers) clearly distinguish between the two as well.

Originally Posted by manny_santos

I ended up cancelling my Air Canada flights and booking on Aeromexico instead. Too risky otherwise.

I now have a credit in my Aeroplan account I have to use by next June, so I’ve basically paid for my spring vacation for next year.

I have that option as well (full flight credit for my upcoming trip to Italy), but I chose not to take it. I even had backup tickets with TS on the same dates, which I canceled today. Here's why.

1. In my case, the credit AC is offering is only valid until April, since I booked my trip last April. So it's only a ~7-8 month credit. Don't know if I will fly anywhere in that timeframe. Maybe, maybe not, so being forced to fly somewhere that I don't need to isn't a good deal in my book.

2. My AC flight that is at risk is from Europe, meaning I would qualify for a 2x 600 Euros compensation in case of an AC strike, as per EC261 regulations.

3. The credit card with which I booked has flight delay compensation in case of a strike as well.

4. My TS backup flights, that I booked in May, cost $600 more, (since they were fully refundable tickets), so I would be minus 600$ from the start.

5. Plenty of decently priced last minute hotel deals are available in Rome, in case I am stuck there a few days.

6. Don't mind spending some extra days in Italy. There are worse places to be stuck.

Add all of these together, and I decided to risk it for my return flight.

Originally Posted by nname

Repost this article from the Vancouver thread:
https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com...ckets-/2123854



Now this confirmed that YUL-ICN is a temporary route for this summer, and they still deciding whether to make it a regular (seasonal) flight or not. So the new YUL-NAP may very well coming from the 4x weekly here. But still, if they decide the make the route permanent, it wouldn't be hard to trim 3x or 4x weekly from all the YUL-Europe offering to restart the route.

I think AC has been doing this for a while now. It's a good strategy. Trying out something, without commitment, to see how it goes.

I know for a fact YUL-DEL wasn't supposed to be permanent either. And yet, the route is still here, and has been expanded.

So we'll see if YUL-ICN sticks or not. Hopefully it does. We need more East Asian destinations from here, not less.

[Calfan12]

KOREAN AIR FURTHER EXPANDS VANCOUVER SERVICE FROM LATE-NOV 2024

Korean Air from late-November 2024 plans further service expansion on Seoul Incheon – Vancouver route, as the airline intends to increase service from 11 to 14 weekly, effective 30NOV24. Reservations for additional service is now available as of 0600GMT.

In addition, in today’s schedule changes, KE071/072 service will switch from 787-9 to -10, effective 27OCT24.

KE071 ICN1840 – 1120YVR 781 D
KE075 ICN2240 – 1520YVR 789 D

KE076 YVR0010 – 0445+1ICN 789 D
KE072 YVR1310 – 1745+1ICN 781 D

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/240903-kenw24yvr

[Calfan12]

AIR CANADA EXTRA VANCOUVER – SINGAPORE ONE-TIME FLIGHT IN SEP 2024

Air Canada this month schedules extra Vancouver – Singapore service, operating on one-way basis. On 11SEP24, this route will be operated by 400-seater Boeing 777-300ER aircraft.

AC017 YVR2100 – 0400+2SIN 77W

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/240903-acsep24sin

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by Calfan12

AIR CANADA EXTRA VANCOUVER – SINGAPORE ONE-TIME FLIGHT IN SEP 2024

Air Canada this month schedules extra Vancouver – Singapore service, operating on one-way basis. On 11SEP24, this route will be operated by 400-seater Boeing 777-300ER aircraft.

AC017 YVR2100 – 0400+2SIN 77W

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/240903-acsep24sin

And what happens to it then?!

(Heavy maintenance there I'm guessing?)

[nname]

Originally Posted by whatnext

And what happens to it then?!

(Heavy maintenance there I'm guessing?)

Yes AC send a few planes to Singapore after the peak summer season for maintenance.

There are also two extra flights that will fly to HKG as AC21, then deadhead to SIN.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

I have that option as well (full flight credit for my upcoming trip to Italy), but I chose not to take it. I even had backup tickets with TS on the same dates, which I canceled today. Here's why.

1. In my case, the credit AC is offering is only valid until April, since I booked my trip last April. So it's only a ~7-8 month credit. Don't know if I will fly anywhere in that timeframe. Maybe, maybe not, so being forced to fly somewhere that I don't need to isn't a good deal in my book.

2. My AC flight that is at risk is from Europe, meaning I would qualify for a 2x 600 Euros compensation in case of an AC strike, as per EC261 regulations.

3. The credit card with which I booked has flight delay compensation in case of a strike as well.

4. My TS backup flights, that I booked in May, cost $600 more, (since they were fully refundable tickets), so I would be minus 600$ from the start.

5. Plenty of decently priced last minute hotel deals are available in Rome, in case I am stuck there a few days.

6. Don't mind spending some extra days in Italy. There are worse places to be stuck.

Add all of these together, and I decided to risk it for my return flight.

Yeah, it depends on the individual situation. In my case delaying the trip wasn’t possible as I’ve already got the time off work and my girlfriend I’m visiting also booked time off work; in her case it was a special favour she had to fight to get. Extending the trip was also not possible due to my work commitments and inability to work remotely outside Canada. I’m paying an extra $175, and I travel often enough that the credit AC offered is something I’ll definitely use. I have until next June to use it.

My credit card has no travel related benefits either.

[samuelx88]

I had the opportunity to try TS YQB-LGW and CDG-YQB last week, both on their A321LR.

YQB-LGW had an impressively high load factor for a penultimate seasonal weekly flight with only 8 seats left. The majority were British as French was only spoken by about 40% of passengers met. Of those British passengers, over half were not of british origin so either connecting to India or Asia or immigrants living in London. Throughout the season, round trip prices were always all over 950$CAD so not as discounted as TS YQB-CDG. I hope a second weekly flight will be coming next summer for its fourth season. I don't think this flight was subsidised for the past two years.

As for my TS CDG-YQB flight on Monday this week, only about 4 seats were left and a slight majority were French with about half probably connecting from Africa. About 40% were Canadian and the majority of those looking like retired travellers. This flight is 4x weekly in the summer, 3x weekly in the winter. AF also operates this route thrice weekly with their highest density 777-300 and probably gets most of business travellers.

[whatnext]

AC offers pilots 30% over three years:

Air Canada Offers Pilots a 30% Pay Boost as Strike Deadline Nears
Pilots in a position to walk out in mid-September if no deal
Strike would cause major disruptions in the airline industry
By Mathieu Dion
September 4, 2024 at 9:53 AM PDT

Air Canada has offered to boost the pay of more than 5,000 pilots by about 30% within the next three years, according to people familiar with the matter, as it seeks to prevent a strike.

Pilots at Canada’s largest airline would received a minimum 20% increase up front, followed by annual raises over a three-year period, said the people, asking not to be identified because the discussions are private. Pilots with one to four years of service would receive more, the people said.

The offer means that a captain with 10 years of service flying a widebody aircraft such as a Boeing 777 with a current salary of just over C$350,000 ($259,000) per year may see an increase of more than C$100,000 over the life of the contract, the people said. The airline’s offer also includes improvements in pension and health benefits....

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...&sref=x4rjnz06

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by samuelx88

Of those British passengers, over half were not of british origin so either connecting to India or Asia or immigrants living in London.

Almost a guarantee none were connecting to India.

None of Air Transat's connectair partners fly from LGW to India. Only Air India does, so passengers would have to self connect. Far from ideal.

This route is 100% about O&D.

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by whatnext

AC offers pilots 30% over three years:

Air Canada Offers Pilots a 30% Pay Boost as Strike Deadline Nears
Pilots in a position to walk out in mid-September if no deal
Strike would cause major disruptions in the airline industry
By Mathieu Dion
September 4, 2024 at 9:53 AM PDT

Air Canada has offered to boost the pay of more than 5,000 pilots by about 30% within the next three years, according to people familiar with the matter, as it seeks to prevent a strike.

Pilots at Canada’s largest airline would received a minimum 20% increase up front, followed by annual raises over a three-year period, said the people, asking not to be identified because the discussions are private. Pilots with one to four years of service would receive more, the people said.

The offer means that a captain with 10 years of service flying a widebody aircraft such as a Boeing 777 with a current salary of just over C$350,000 ($259,000) per year may see an increase of more than C$100,000 over the life of the contract, the people said. The airline’s offer also includes improvements in pension and health benefits....

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...&sref=x4rjnz06

They did not accept that deal. This is old news.

Pilots gave an offer, AC didn't even bother to counter. So both sides left the negotiation table, last I heard.

[Justanothermember]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

They did not accept that deal. This is old news.

Pilots gave an offer, AC didn't even bother to counter. So both sides left the negotiation table, last I heard.

Odd that if it is old news, the story is re-printed today (as dated on the article).

[thenoflyzone]

Originally Posted by Justanothermember

Odd that if it is old news, the story is re-printed today (as dated on the article).

Old or new, AC is leaking this to get the public on their side.

My understanding is, the pilots already said no to a ~30% increase. This might be a newer offer, front loaded (20% increase up front), but it still won’t work.

Pilots want a minimum 50% pay increase on average, among other things, and I can’t see AC giving it to them.

[Dominion301]

As requested a few days ago, here's YHZ's January 2024 traffic numbers:

Sector Jan
Domestic 169,099
Transborder 15,891
Other International 31,423
Total 216,413

Here's January 2023:

Sector Jan
Domestic 177,084
Transborder 11,705
Other International 20,901
Total 209,690

And for pre-pandemic comparison, here's January 2019:

Sector Jan
Domestic 214,519
Transborder 19,732
Other International 14,292
Total 248,543

So when people don't believe when I say summer seasonal routes like YWG-YHZ won't work in the dead of winter yet say I don't know what I'm talking about, these numbers don't lie. Even YHZ's trunk domestic routes to YYZ, YOW, YUL & YYT can have loads of flights below 60% LF in winter outside of the holiday period. YHZ's July 2024 traffic is more than double January 2024. It's the polar opposite of a place like RSW.

With the capacity increases YHZ's seeing this winter, I would expect them to get back to January 2019 numbers for January 2025.

[nname]

Originally Posted by thenoflyzone

I think AC has been doing this for a while now. It's a good strategy. Trying out something, without commitment, to see how it goes.

I know for a fact YUL-DEL wasn't supposed to be permanent either. And yet, the route is still here, and has been expanded.

So we'll see if YUL-ICN sticks or not. Hopefully it does. We need more East Asian destinations from here, not less.

Looks like decision had been made. Both YYZ-KIX and YUL-ICN had been added to S25 schedule.

YVR-KIX will stay 4x weekly but will resume from late-March instead of May.

YVR-HKG will reduce to 7x weekly from early Jan 2025. For W24, the frequency will use to increase YVR-BKK to daily and YVR-AKL to 5x weekly from Jan. S25 change remain to be seen.

[Dominion301]

Here's YOW's July traffic:

Sector / Jul-23 / Jul-24 / % Change
Dom: 319,358 / 328,021 / +2.7%
TB: 40,352 / 52,174 / +29.3%
Int'l: 9,304 / 18,158 / +95.2%
TTL: 369,014 / 398,353 / +8.0%

Sector / YTD 2023 / YTD 2024 / % Change
Dom: 1,798,700 / 1,824,096 / +1.4%
TB: 320,330 / 472,355 / +47.5% - looks like 2012's record of 775,040 will finally get broken
Int'l: 203,299 / 301,752 / +48.4%
TTL: 2,322,329 / 2,598,203 / +11.9%

July % of traffic recovered vs 2019 / YTD vs 2019
Sector / Traffic % recovered July 2024 vs July 2019 / Traffic % recovered YTD 2024 vs YTD 2019
Dom: 88.4% / 79.7%
TB: 110.6% / 108.9%
Int'l: 73.4% / 104.8%
TTL: 89.9% / 86.3%

12 Months Rolling / % Change vs Year End 2022
Dom: 3,228,295 / +19.2%
TB: 728,158 / +282.6%
Int'l: 415,335 / +312.7%
TTL: 4,371,788 / +45.7%

[zahav]

YVR, YUL, and YYC had mediocre July traffic, in terms of some sector growth and modest overall growth. This was fully expected, it's much of the same from past months with domestic dragging, but with some giant y/y growth in transborder for all three airports. In % terms, transborder growth % at YUL for example is several times higher than international, despite international getting so much attention as the big growth area. In July, international was up 3.6%, but transborder was up 16.3%, so much stronger relative performance. Ditto at YYC and YVR, although not to the same extreme as YUL (meaning the difference between int. and trans is smaller, but still significant). But really all are having the same trends, just with different figures.

Two fun YVR takeaways (fun for me at least haha no secret I'm a local booster as much as possible, so like having some good news). But YUL and YYC are killing it these days more than ever, so I'm not interested in competing, just sharing facts and having discussions, no room for drama and cattiness over stats....

The first is that transborder was over 700,000 for the first time ever I believe. Love seeing that number, especially in that sector. It was a very rocky sector really for most of the post-9/11 period, so many bumps in the road (all the terrorism weirdness, the shoe bomber, the liquids and gels ordeal, AC weakness, the CAN$ increasing, competition from Seattle for cruises, Bellingham looming like it was going to devour this market, and more people driving too Seatac even). It was a touch and go sector that either shrunk or didn't change much, over the 2001-2011ish period. Especially compared to international, which was strong because that period saw the Asian market start to grow a lot. I remember people being aghast that I was flying to LAS from YVR in those years, people couldn't believe someone would fly YVR instead of BLI, Allegiant had more loyalty than anything at YVR, it was so depressing. So this recent strength makes me happy to see, always hoped transborder would grow and not be destroyed by US airports

Second thing I noticed is YVR actually had a slight Y/Y gain in scheduled domestic pax. So YVR for some reason breaks down scheduled and charter pax, which I don't think any others do? Anyways, charter pax numbers seem to be getting weaker and weaker, in favour of more scheduled. Even for the sun destinations, the % of charter pax amongst overall pax is fairly small, and declining. For the first time I can remember, YVR didn't record any charter pax in July, not one in any sector. So for domestic, scheduled went from 1,242,427 to 1,243,405 (a whopping 978 pax increase lol, but still, I find that impressive considering the state of the domestic market all across the country. But the decline of 14,670 to 0 for charter pax dragged the sector down so it shrank in total, but entirely because of the charter sector, it's interesting. Since charter flights are not scheduled the way normal flights are (ie. you have to buy through a tour operator on sun flights and can't just fly), what we airport enthusiasts would notice is the scheduled carriers who publish their schedules and we can review their schedules and know their ops. Charters are unknown, it could be flying a hockey teams, or large organizations maybe, and then smaller airlines do fishing charters, ski charters, etc. But overall, a very small part of the market. So seeing the growth in scheduled domestic is a surprise. I wish YUL and YYC published their breakdown to see if charter losses were the culprit there. I have zero clue the size or importance of the charter market to YYC or YUL, but I assume YUL benefits more than YYC for flights. YUL seems to have many more charter type operations, I think it had more of a history in Quebec than Alberta, so there's still remnants. But likely a decline proportion of charter everywhere, except maybe places like Fort McMurray, or other remote work locations, where charters is very important. But less so at major airports