Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[freeshavocado]

Originally Posted by meman

You guys knew from the very start what the building would look like before it was even built and I didnt hear any bitchin about how it looked and most people on this forum was really excited about the building being the new tallest.

I never saw ANY renderings of the ugly north and west sides during proposal and construction phases. We were just fed renderings of the nice looking east side.

[zurich]

Originally Posted by freeshavocado

I never saw ANY renderings of the ugly north and west sides during proposal and construction phases. We were just fed renderings of the nice looking east side.

BINGO!!!! And if the developer was proud of those other angles, how come we never saw them? Or why weren't they shown equally? They knew what they were doing. If you're on the city council or planning commission, just ask the simple question.. "Hmm...what do the other sides look like?"

[Atlas]

There were definitely some renderings of the other sides of Astra. Maybe you just didn't see them?

How about we change the subject away from salty Cougars and Astra haters to something more relevant: the City Council approved an upzone for all of D-4, which will enable both the SEG project and, presumably, the West Quarter to build up to 600 ft (with design review).

I also heard that interest rates are coming down on Monday, which means we may see some new development energy.

[msbutah]

The council also sent IHC packing again and told them to come back with something that better engages the streets they're facing.

[freeshavocado]

Originally Posted by msbutah

The council also sent IHC packing again and told them to come back with something that better engages the streets they're facing.

It really shouldn't be that hard. Large hospitals have cafes, pharmacies, shops, wellness centers, etc. Orient them to the street.

Then include some green space. Move the parking garage entrance to 800 S rather than Main. Basic stuff.

[justiny]

Originally Posted by msbutah

The council also sent IHC packing again and told them to come back with something that better engages the streets they're facing.

Anyone know why IHC is playing games with the council? May be an unfair assessment from me, but that's the way it looks.

[Makid]

Originally Posted by Atlas

I also heard that interest rates are coming down on Monday, which means we may see some new development energy.

Just an update here, it won't be on Monday, it will happen during the next Fed meeting, Sept 17 - 18.

It was originally thought that it would be a .25% decrease but I have heard that there is a push to make it a .5% decrease.

With a decrease, we should see a few projects start to move forward. If we do see a .5% decrease, I think we may see a few projects that have been stalled for a while come back to life.

In development news, it looks like the Greek Town project has died and is being redesigned. https://www.sltrib.com/news/2024/08/...ek-towns-plan/

I am hoping though that the rate decrease will allow for Block C to move forward for the West Quarter, this year. While Block D would be nice to also move forward, I have heard that this may be redesigned pending the planning regarding the convention center.

One other aspect of the rate reduction is that transit projects will be cheaper as well. This could help push both the Tech-Link and Rio Grande projects forward sooner.

[ucsbgaucho]

Ryan Smith’s SLC sports district can have 50-story skyscrapers, council says
Smith Entertainment Group’s sports district can have buildings up to 600 feet with special approval, according to an ordinance approved Tuesday by the City Council.

Salt Lake City’s skyline will get to level up.

City Council members unanimously approved an ordinance Tuesday that boosts the maximum allowable building height in Smith Entertainment Group’s proposed sports and entertainment district from 125 feet to 600 feet, or about 50 stories.

The changes mean skyscrapers near the Delta Center could surpass the city’s soon-to-be-tallest building, the 450-foot luxury Astra Tower at 89 E. 200 South, by about 150 feet.

SEG, meanwhile, continues to push for having sports district skyscrapers above a certain height reviewed at the “staff level,” allowing the buildings to bypass the planning commission review and its usual public hearing process.

The council-approved zoning ordinance for the district did not address SEG’s request for a secret review, but it did boost the typical planning commission review threshold from 75 feet to 200 feet within the sports district.

Council members are leaving open the option for approving skyscrapers behind closed doors in a yet-to-be-approved development agreement that will guide construction in the district.

“We’re hoping that there’s enough teeth — maybe too negative of a term — but enough specificity in the development agreement that we’re OK with the administrative review that SEG has asked for,” council member Darin Mano said during a work session earlier Tuesday.

He added that he was “hopeful” council members can approve the staff review process once they see the development agreement.

The ordinance the council approved Tuesday will also allow SEG to add plazas within the sports district, and creates special permissions for signs within the area.

[Orlando]

Originally Posted by Makid

In development news, it looks like the Greek Town project has died and is being redesigned. https://www.sltrib.com/news/2024/08/...ek-towns-plan/

Can you please post the article text & images on here? I have to get a subscription to the Tribune to read it.

[Makid]

Originally Posted by Orlando

Can you please post the article text & images on here? I have to get a subscription to the Tribune to read it.

Can't post the whole article but I can post some of it.

As SLC looks to revitalize Japantown, the question arises: What about Greek Town?
The plan for a massive $300M redevelopment around a historic cathedral falls through, so the community scales back its designs for downtown.

As another once-in-a-lifetime project unfolds a block away, members of Utah’s Greek Orthodox community have shelved dreams for their own huge development by the historic Holy Trinity Cathedral in downtown Salt Lake City.

The congregation announced a partnership in 2020 with Utah developer Woodbury Corp. to realize long-pursued plans for a new upscale campus, housing and renovated community center around the century-old cathedral at 279 S. 300 West — along with deluxe upgrades for hosting the popular yearly Greek Festival.

With visions of high-rises, elevated green plazas, public walkways, nearly 80,000 square feet of office space, ground-floor restaurants, big kitchens and as many as 550 new apartments, the Holy Trinity redevelopment seemed poised to transform that area of Utah’s capital around Pioneer Park.

Church leaders unveiled their grand vision for that corner, the community center and adjacent properties — including La France and a surface parking lot across 300 West, next to the Crane Building — in early 2020, mere weeks before the U.S. onset of the COVID-19 pandemic.

Intense discussions ensued, with the plans and the project’s complex finances subject to a final vote by parishioners and approval by church authorities.

Woodbury later said it spent more than three years and nearly $1 million on consulting fees in pursuit of the agreement with the Greek Orthodox Church, only to essentially yank the plug in mid-September 2023.

Congregants told The Salt Lake Tribune multiple concerns surfaced in the parish assembly, including that the project was too big or, to some, not big enough.

Others feared its potential effects on the Greek Festival and the logistics of at least two years of construction. Yet it was the finances and the complex proposal for up to a 100-year ground lease on the properties with Woodbury, these church members said, that seemed to spark the biggest fears.

In the end, though, it appears to have been the post-pandemic economy that killed it, with Woodbury saying last September that lending and equity markets had soured to the point it no longer could meet the project’s timelines.

George Karahalios, president of the parish council, said in an interview the church is actively exploring conceptual plans for a new community center with another developer and a presentation to parishioners is expected in November.

“We’re kind of in the infancy stages of a completely new concept on the community center, not what it was before,” Karahalios said. That has meant dropping, for now, he added, the notion of any new housing construction.

[Comrade]

I'm still bitter over their demolishing the apartments over there. They were cool looking and fairly historic only because my great-great grandma was living there when she died:

[Rileybo]

They were very cool, indeed.

[TheGeographer]

If interest rates are “high” why are current rates still around the 30 year average? They are high compared to the most recent rate, but not the long term.

Something that puzzles me, how are other cities of similar population like Austin or Nashville still cranking out towers. Does it have to do with interest rates and buildings costs being high. Or SLC not having deep enough developer pockets to take on those costs before return on investment kicks in years down the road compared to those cities? Can someone who knows more about this explain why some cities seem to be seemingly unaffected by the current interest rates, while in SLC we seem to attribute much of the slow down to them being higher. Seems like there’s lots of variables at play beyond interest rates

And I think Astra is fine. It’s better to have a new taller tower than none at all considering we don’t have tower after tower lined up to be built

[bob rulz]

Originally Posted by TheGeographer

If interest rates are “high” why are current rates still around the 30 year average? They are high compared to the most recent rate, but not the long term.

Something that puzzles me, how are other cities of similar population like Austin or Nashville still cranking out towers. Does it have to do with interest rates and buildings costs being high. Or SLC not having deep enough developer pockets to take on those costs before return on investment kicks in years down the road compared to those cities? Can someone who knows more about this explain why some cities seem to be seemingly unaffected by the current interest rates, while in SLC we seem to attribute much of the slow down to them being higher. Seems like there’s lots of variables at play beyond interest rates

And I think Astra is fine. It’s better to have a new taller tower than none at all considering we don’t have tower after tower lined up to be built

My guess re: Austin and Nashville is that most of those towers had financing secured before the current interest rates were established. It could also certainly be that developers with deeper pockets are investing in those cities.

Interest rates are not the only factor at play of course, but it is probably the biggest reason that new projects have had a hard time getting off the ground.

Originally Posted by Makid

While Block D would be nice to also move forward, I have heard that this may be redesigned pending the planning regarding the convention center.

Hopefully this means they want to take advantage of the 600 ft height limit.

[mattreedah]

Originally Posted by Rileybo

They were very cool, indeed.

I had a friend there in the 2006-2007 time period. What was sad was letting them dilapidate over time. It got VERY bad. The Greek Orthodox church had wanted to demolish them for decades. The people there wouldn't have been able to afford the rent increase that would have surely happened in a remodel. Sad situation all around.

[Ironweed]

Originally Posted by TheGeographer

If interest rates are “high” why are current rates still around the 30 year average? They are high compared to the most recent rate, but not the long term.

Very true.

As a finance guy, I can assure you that everyone has become addicted to lower than average interest rates.

We are now in a new credit paradigm; The continual lowering of rates for the past 40 years is over.

The idea of the fed lowering of rates with the amount of existing debt in the system is inherently inflationary. Lowering rates dramatically is unrealistic, irresponsible, and dangerous (IMO.)

Developers need to learn how to navigate the existing credit markets. Hoping and waiting for lower rates in order to pencil out their projects is a bad strategy.

[TheGeographer]

100% agree with your post Ironweed. Couldn’t have said it better myself.

Good news on the SEG front. A well designed tower or two around 600 ft would do wonders for our skyline

[Orlando]

Check this out...this is the multi-level convention center in downtown Seattle.

https://www.architecturalrecord.com/...=6353896008112

Could it be inspiration for a multi-level Salt Palace Convention Center?

[bob rulz]

The rezone to MU-15 for the old Wells Fargo site in Sugarhouse has been put on the next Planning Commission agenda on September 11th.

[TheGeographer]

Larry H Miller group wants building heights up to 400 ft at the Rocky Mountain power site. A few taller buildings on that side of town would really extend out the “downtown” feeling from our current pyramid structure.

As for MLB that’s still a few years out looks like our competitors for an expansion team are Austin, Nashville, Charlotte, and Raleigh. Would Austin be considered a western or eastern team? Hopefully they’re in the East and not the West like the Spurs are in the NBA, or we could be in for some competition.