PHILADELPHIA-CAMDEN-WILMINGTON-ATLANTIC CITY-READING | Metro Development Thread

[thoughtcriminal]

Originally Posted by PHLtoNYC

I know Subruba Park has been open for years, but would it have made more sense to build a larger venue in the sports complex instead of Chester?

Philadelphia Union's possible Subaru Park expansion would sacrifice much of river view
https://www.bizjournals.com/philadel...iver-seat.html

Yes, it would have made more sense to build a larger venue in the sports complex.
It would have made even more sense to just have them play at the Linc, which sits empty 300* days of the year, including most of the MLS season.
But good ol' Eddie Rendell said the stadium would rescue the city of Chester from economic disaster, with all of its opportunities for investment and employment. (How's that working out, Chester?)

*- 300 days is conservative. I just counted all of the events scheduled for the stadium in 2024, and there were only 30. So that's 336 days this year (leap year) where it was unused. Your tax dollars at work.

[EastSideHBG]

PHOENIXVILLE, PA — Phoenixville is weighing a transformation of the intersection of the parking lot at the intersection of Bridge Street and Main Street, with three potential designs currently under consideration.

The options include a "Natural Connections" design that emphasizes a green public park, a "Historic Foundations" design that focuses on a plaza that embraces Phoenixville's industrial roots, and a "Living Room" design with more benches and walkways.

The borough is soliciting feedback from the public on the plan in this survey.
https://patch.com/pennsylvania/phoen...ns-bridge-main

[PhillyRising]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

PHOENIXVILLE, PA — Phoenixville is weighing a transformation of the intersection of the parking lot at the intersection of Bridge Street and Main Street, with three potential designs currently under consideration.

The options include a "Natural Connections" design that emphasizes a green public park, a "Historic Foundations" design that focuses on a plaza that embraces Phoenixville's industrial roots, and a "Living Room" design with more benches and walkways.

The borough is soliciting feedback from the public on the plan in this survey.
https://patch.com/pennsylvania/phoen...ns-bridge-main

I know parking garages add nothing to a town...just look at the SEPTA monstrosity in Norristown that just looms over everything...but Phoenixville needs one somewhere if they want to continue being a hot spot for entertainment and dining. The neighborhoods surrounding the business district get overwhelmed with cars looking to park and any lots are a bit of walk up to the middle of town. It's why we don't really go because my partner can't do the real long walk. West Chester has the big garages on that don't take up the streetscape and allow for big events to take place along Market and Gay...

[thoughtcriminal]

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

Agreed. They’ve been protective over others using though. We went to a huge marching band competition there back in 2018; fans loved the location and it was well attended. But stadium ownership banned further marching band comps bc the feet messed up the turf. I call BS on that. Events like that coupled with an economic business plan around the stadium, would be great for Chester.

there was a plan to develop the land around the stadium at the beginning, or at least they had pretty renderings showing development. Obviously it never happened, and it's not going to happen because they've turned all of that land into practice fields.
So they want to increase the stadium's capacity after decreasing the parking capacity? That doesn't math.
Move them to the city. Preferably to the Linc, so as to optimize that facility. But if they want to build their own stadium, without tax subsidy, then more power to them.

[BroadandMarket]

Originally Posted by thoughtcriminal

there was a plan to develop the land around the stadium at the beginning, or at least they had pretty renderings showing development. Obviously it never happened, and it's not going to happen because they've turned all of that land into practice fields.
So they want to increase the stadium's capacity after decreasing the parking capacity? That doesn't math.
Move them to the city. Preferably to the Linc, so as to optimize that facility. But if they want to build their own stadium, without tax subsidy, then more power to them.

Development around Chester was never going to happen regardless. The whole stadium was a bait and switch for public money and the Union will be a second class MLS franchise as long as they are in Chester. It should have never been built there and I really hope they don't double down. If they do, you'll hear murmuring about the Union moving to a new city in 15 years who will build them a real downtown stadium. The MLS has come a long way since the Union were formed and their stadium is regarded as one of the smallest/worst stadium experiences to only Montreal. Go and look at some of the new MLS stadiums. Chester is the most hopeless place in PA which makes it one of the most hopeless places in the country. It's sad, but it's just the truth. There is no economy and there never will be. It will never be a good environment for a stadium and redevelopment.

They should put all of their efforts into getting in Philly or even Camden with transit access. They should try and mitigate the costs by splitting a stadium with Temple football, Penn soccer or Rutgers Camden in Camden. Callowhill, sports complex, Walmart piers in south Philly, Broad and Girard, Fishtown waterfront by the Battery would all be great locations.

[DeltaNerd]

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

Agreed. They’ve been protective over others using though. We went to a huge marching band competition there back in 2018; fans loved the location and it was well attended. But stadium ownership banned further marching band comps bc the feet messed up the turf. I call BS on that. Events like that coupled with an economic business plan around the stadium, would be great for Chester.

I have yet to see any positive news from Chester itself other than the Union is developing more soccer fields and parking. Chester could be bankrupt soon lol. I don't see how the Union has grown Chester

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by DeltaNerd

I have yet to see any positive news from Chester itself other than the Union is developing more soccer fields and parking. Chester could be bankrupt soon lol. I don't see how the Union has grown Chester

I have some good news for Chester.

1. It's population is growing again.
2. It is becoming a destination for Latino immigrants.
3. It has developed something of market for flipped properties. It is the literal hole in the donut. Every town around it has average home prices 3 if not 4 times (if not more: Nether Providence, Swarthmore) that of Chester at this point and as one of the few truly affordable pockets of the entire region, I see that continuing, especially if Latinos continue to move there (given many work in the Trades).

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

I have some good news for Chester.

1. It's population is growing again.
2. It is becoming a destination for Latino immigrants.
3. It has developed something of market for flipped properties. It is the literal hole in the donut. Every town around it has average home prices 3 if not 4 times (if not more: Nether Providence, Swarthmore) that of Chester at this point and as one of the few truly affordable pockets of the entire region, I see that continuing, especially if Latinos continue to move there (given many work in the Trades).

I've heard this same thing about Norristown for a while now and got to witness all of this up close but it still hasn't turned the corner. And Norristown is in better shape than Chester is and in an arguably better location.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

I've heard this same thing about Norristown for a while now and got to witness all of this up close but it still hasn't turned the corner. And Norristown is in better shape than Chester is and in an arguably better location.

Meh. I don't think Norristown is better located than Chester. Norristown is adjacent to a bunch of things of relevance but none of them are actually in Norristown.

Chester has transit connectivity to Philadelphia and the NE Corridor, generally. It's next to the airport. It is at the confluence of 2 major highways. It is on the river.

Either way, I think Chester is at a tipping point. It wouldn't be the worst thing if it declared bankruptcy. Debt can be insidious. Lots of places of bounced back remarkably after bankruptcy.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Meh. I don't think Norristown is better located than Chester.

What are your metrics? If it is things like employment centers Norristown is in a better location.

Norristown is adjacent to a bunch of things of relevance but none of them are actually in Norristown.

Like Chester.

Chester has transit connectivity to Philadelphia and the NE Corridor, generally. It's next to the airport. It is at the confluence of 2 major highways. It is on the river.

Norristown also has robust transit connectivity, near major highways and connected (and will be even more so with the new TP interchange), on a river...

Either way, I think Chester is at a tipping point. It wouldn't be the worst thing if it declared bankruptcy. Debt can be insidious. Lots of places of bounced back remarkably after bankruptcy.

Remarkably? I haven't really seen that, more of a very slow crawl after it.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

What are your metrics? If it is things like employment centers Norristown is in a better location.


Like Chester.


Norristown also has robust transit connectivity, near major highways and connected (and will be even more so with the new TP interchange), on a river...


Remarkably? I haven't really seen that, more of a very slow crawl after it.

Yeah, there are tons of jobs in the 202 corridor. Tons of white collar high paying jobs; not the kinds of jobs that recent immigrant laborers need access to. That's what's different. There are a lot of blue collar jobs on the 95 corridor, and the people who fill them are likely to want to live closer to them, with VERY fast access to Philadelphia and Wilmington, which also have a ton of blue collar jobs of their own.

And LOL Norristown is on a river. Ok. I mean a river that provides jobs with all of the accompanying industry that sits on a major shipping channel. Not the Schuykill 15 miles upstream from the Philadelphia Art Museum with what, kayaks?

We can agree to disagree. Norristown is indeed light years ahead of Chester, I never said it wasn't. But I think Chester has more potential in the medium to long term for all of the aforementioned reasons.

And also, are you arguing it would be better for Chester to NOT declare bankruptcy? Surely moving forward without debt is much better than continuing to be strangled by it go forward.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Yeah, there are tons of jobs in the 202 corridor. Tons of white collar high paying jobs; not the kinds of jobs that recent immigrant laborers need access to. That's what's different. There are a lot of blue collar jobs on the 95 corridor, and the people who fill them are likely to want to live closer to them, with VERY fast access to Philadelphia and Wilmington, which also have a ton of blue collar jobs of their own.

I can push back on this a bit but also not saying that Chester is in a bad location so will drop it.

And LOL Norristown is on a river. Ok. I mean a river that provides jobs with all of the accompanying industry that sits on a major shipping channel. Not the Schuykill 15 miles upstream from the Philadelphia Art Museum with what, kayaks?

Since they are both near a river, the shipping piece aside, they have access to the potential for waterfront development, activities...both have a similar canvas. But yes if you would like to kayak, go for it.

We can agree to disagree. Norristown is indeed light years ahead of Chester, I never said it wasn't. But I think Chester has more potential in the medium to long term for all of the aforementioned reasons.

Time will tell.

And also, are you arguing it would be better for Chester to NOT declare bankruptcy? Surely moving forward without debt is much better than continuing to be strangled by it go forward.

Nope. But I was disputing your "remarkably after bankruptcy" statement because I haven't really seen that with other examples.

[bigfish]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

I've heard this same thing about Norristown for a while now and got to witness all of this up close but it still hasn't turned the corner. And Norristown is in better shape than Chester is and in an arguably better location.

I have to agree with you and I think that Norristown is definitely in better shape and a much better location. Yes Chester is on the NE corridor but Amtrak does not stop there. For employment centers in Philadelphia and Wilmington there are affordable areas in S/SW Philly that are in much better shape and Wilmington as well. I can't see a reason why somebody would move to Chester over Eastwick/Elmwood park if they worked at the Airport and that is all they could afford. SW Philly has great transit access and in my opinion safer and with more opportunity than Chester. Same could be said about parts of Wilmington. Maybe the refineries in Marcus Hook would be enough to convince people to move there.

In comparison to Norristown, King of Prussia is the biggest employment center outside of the Center City/University City and right across the bridge. Yes many of these jobs are white collar and wouldn't be accessible to most new immigrants. However somebody has to keep the buildings clean, provide maintenance, work the restaurants, and build the new buildings. This is not to mention that Norristown is surrounded by wealthy areas that hire people for landscaping and renovations. Chester has 2 regional rail stops, a few busses and access to 95/476. Norristown has 3 regional rail stops (proposals to extend to Reading via Amtrak) the NHSL, many more busses and access to 202/276/476. Norristown is also the county capital.

I think it would be very interesting to study how immigration patterns affect neghborhood development. You are right, they have been saying that the increase in immigration to Norristown will revitalize it. To an extant it has, W Marshall st is much more vibrant than I remember when I was growing up and that is very exciting. However, there are still many challenges and it is important to remember that there is not one solution for everything. There needs to be more market rate housing (especially around the transit center) To improve the tax base, Main street's liveliness, and diversify the socio-economic status of Norristown. Part of the problem is that the County has treated Norristown as the place to drop all of the Montco's problems (kind of like Kensington to a much more chill degree). The County and the Municipality seem to be holding the area back too.

[el don]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Yeah, there are tons of jobs in the 202 corridor. Tons of white collar high paying jobs; not the kinds of jobs that recent immigrant laborers need access to. That's what's different. There are a lot of blue collar jobs on the 95 corridor, and the people who fill them are likely to want to live closer to them, with VERY fast access to Philadelphia and Wilmington, which also have a ton of blue collar jobs of their own.

And LOL Norristown is on a river. Ok. I mean a river that provides jobs with all of the accompanying industry that sits on a major shipping channel. Not the Schuykill 15 miles upstream from the Philadelphia Art Museum with what, kayaks?

We can agree to disagree. Norristown is indeed light years ahead of Chester, I never said it wasn't. But I think Chester has more potential in the medium to long term for all of the aforementioned reasons.

And also, are you arguing it would be better for Chester to NOT declare bankruptcy? Surely moving forward without debt is much better than continuing to be strangled by it go forward.

Norristown is close to 40-50 Latino now. Where do you think they are working?

How immigration works (legal and illegal) is someone settled in an area and then tell there friends and family to come. that's how ethic enclaves are formed. Norristown already has a self sustaining economy for immigrants, Chester does not. It may in the future but I don't I'd be very surprised if it ever catches up.

[iamdjmichael]

Was scrolling on Redit and found this… Guess there was a 10FL apartment building presented by Penn Cinema https://www.reddit.com/r/WilmingtonDE/s/WER6cPXAnI

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by bigfish

I have to agree with you and I think that Norristown is definitely in better shape and a much better location. Yes Chester is on the NE corridor but Amtrak does not stop there. For employment centers in Philadelphia and Wilmington there are affordable areas in S/SW Philly that are in much better shape and Wilmington as well. I can't see a reason why somebody would move to Chester over Eastwick/Elmwood park if they worked at the Airport and that is all they could afford. SW Philly has great transit access and in my opinion safer and with more opportunity than Chester. Same could be said about parts of Wilmington. Maybe the refineries in Marcus Hook would be enough to convince people to move there.

In comparison to Norristown, King of Prussia is the biggest employment center outside of the Center City/University City and right across the bridge. Yes many of these jobs are white collar and wouldn't be accessible to most new immigrants. However somebody has to keep the buildings clean, provide maintenance, work the restaurants, and build the new buildings. This is not to mention that Norristown is surrounded by wealthy areas that hire people for landscaping and renovations. Chester has 2 regional rail stops, a few busses and access to 95/476. Norristown has 3 regional rail stops (proposals to extend to Reading via Amtrak) the NHSL, many more busses and access to 202/276/476. Norristown is also the county capital.

I think it would be very interesting to study how immigration patterns affect neghborhood development. You are right, they have been saying that the increase in immigration to Norristown will revitalize it. To an extant it has, W Marshall st is much more vibrant than I remember when I was growing up and that is very exciting. However, there are still many challenges and it is important to remember that there is not one solution for everything. There needs to be more market rate housing (especially around the transit center) To improve the tax base, Main street's liveliness, and diversify the socio-economic status of Norristown. Part of the problem is that the County has treated Norristown as the place to drop all of the Montco's problems (kind of like Kensington to a much more chill degree). The County and the Municipality seem to be holding the area back too.

Originally Posted by el don

Norristown is close to 40-50 Latino now. Where do you think they are working?

How immigration works (legal and illegal) is someone settled in an area and then tell there friends and family to come. that's how ethic enclaves are formed. Norristown already has a self sustaining economy for immigrants, Chester does not. It may in the future but I don't I'd be very surprised if it ever catches up.

I agree with you both.

Originally Posted by bdurk

No offense guys but can we keep the topic on relevant stuff instead of arguing about the demographics of Norristown and Chester

No Can the mods move posts to the Metro thread? Not sure that there is much left to say on the topic but it's been a good discussion and can continue on there if need be.

[mcgrath618]

Originally Posted by EastSideHBG

No Can the mods move posts to the Metro thread? Not sure that there is much left to say on the topic but it's been a good discussion and can continue on there if need be.

Done.

[EastSideHBG]

Originally Posted by PhillyRising

I know parking garages add nothing to a town...just look at the SEPTA monstrosity in Norristown that just looms over everything...but Phoenixville needs one somewhere if they want to continue being a hot spot for entertainment and dining. The neighborhoods surrounding the business district get overwhelmed with cars looking to park and any lots are a bit of walk up to the middle of town. It's why we don't really go because my partner can't do the real long walk. West Chester has the big garages on that don't take up the streetscape and allow for big events to take place along Market and Gay...

Agreed, it's bursting at the seems during some of the Bridge St. events.

Originally Posted by mcgrath618

Done.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by el don

How immigration works (legal and illegal) is someone settled in an area and then tell there friends and family to come.

LOL. Thanks. I've lived for 45 years on this earth and somehow this never occured to me.