LOS ANGELES | Downtown Project Rundown 6.0

[scania]

Venice? Venice Beach??? Just curious which one.

[LA21st]

Yes, Venice Beach lol.

Theres been some "Venice Beach is dying" videos since 2020. Mostly in the 2020-2021 period, but some idiots still try to pretend its falling apart.
Kinda dumb to do it these days and the international tourists didnt care anyway. Theres more europeans than ever it seems.
Maybe those negative videos garned interests (Maybe not, these tourists are coming with their families) but its backfired on those morons anyway.

Those negative videos are streamlined to a certain, small group of angry people.

[JSW]

Originally Posted by LA21st

Because a certain group eats that crap right up. NYC and SF get the same treatment, its not just LA. NYC has one of the bigger youtube "NYC is dying' channels, and SF has their own version of this. People walking around and filming only the flaws. I think the NYC and SF guys are the worst and get more views and they're very active trying to spread a narrative.

Austin is starting to get this backlash too, believe it or not. Miami as well.

These influencers are gonna run out of content if all they do is bitch though.

On a related note, I was in Venice for 2-3 days this weekend and it is packed like pre covid. And full of Europeans. So whatever these influencers are trying to do, it isn't working.
Probably the same for NYC. And I bet it makes them angry as hell.

There are a lot of... unserious people you can't really apply too much weight to their claims, though unfortunately, when these cherry picked (or straight up made up) critiques are firehosed across social media in sufficient volume it does have a lasting effect.

For example, some people and news networks to this day try to claim that like 25% of Seattle was "completely taken over" by protesters in the summer of 2020. However, the actual thing they are referencing happened to occur 2 blocks from my apartment in Capitol Hill, so I can tell you first hand just how absurd these claims are. It was literally a small neighborhood park called Cal Anderson Park that was occupied by protesters. Check that out and tell me what percentage of the city that park takes up. https://maps.app.goo.gl/kvSmuCPRqVcpD4Aa6

That's one example, but the point stands that people either have agendas to push on the political side, and unscrupulous influencers have zero morals about what content or partnerships they need to create to get views and engagement. Some people are just morally bankrupt.

[BrandonJXN]

Originally Posted by dktshb

The only issue I have with the Arts District is it needs to build up the pedestrian infrastructure. Too few crosswalks sidewalks and too many cars, which is strange to say because 20 years ago you could walk down the middle of most those streets.

I think that a lot of streets in the Arts District should be converted to pedestrian plazas. Or even parks. The Arts District is devoid of anything green.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by JSW

There are a lot of... unserious people you can't really apply too much weight to their claims, though unfortunately, when these cherry picked (or straight up made up) critiques are firehosed across social media in sufficient volume it does have a lasting effect.

For example, some people and news networks to this day try to claim that like 25% of Seattle was "completely taken over" by protesters in the summer of 2020. However, the actual thing they are referencing happened to occur 2 blocks from my apartment in Capitol Hill, so I can tell you first hand just how absurd these claims are. It was literally a small neighborhood park called Cal Anderson Park that was occupied by protesters. Check that out and tell me what percentage of the city that park takes up. https://maps.app.goo.gl/kvSmuCPRqVcpD4Aa6

That's one example, but the point stands that people either have agendas to push on the political side, and unscrupulous influencers have zero morals about what content or partnerships they need to create to get views and engagement. Some people are just morally bankrupt.

Yes, but their agendas arent working. If they were, Venice Beach would be avoided by tourists after the 2020-2021 video firestorm. But its like covid and those videos never happened. And those "influencers" probaby are very angry they failed.

The NYC guy, Cash Jordan, is hell bent on saying Manhattan is going to shit. But like SF/LA/Sea, these videos are really going to the same group of people so most normal people arent seeing this shit. Or if they are, they certainly dont care or aware of the bs these "influencers' are pushing.

[LAisthePlace]

Originally Posted by LA21st

Yes, but their agendas arent working. If they were, Venice Beach would be avoided by tourists after the 2020-2021 video firestorm. But its like covid and those videos never happened. And those "influencers" probaby are very angry they failed.

The NYC guy, Cash Jordan, is hell bent on saying Manhattan is going to shit. But like SF/LA/Sea, these videos are really going to the same group of people so most normal people arent seeing this shit. Or if they are, they certainly dont care or aware of the bs these "influencers' are pushing.

I lived in Venice Beach from 2017-2020. It is more vibrant than pre-covid, especially around the Venice Sign (the nightlife there is some of the best in all of Los Angeles, with sidewalk drinking and dining to boot).

[craigs]

Read the whole article if you can, as it discusses the changing nature of downtown generally and several developments in the works specifically.

Megadevelopments like Fourth & Central are L.A.’s future, some say


The Conrad Los Angeles, a 28-story hotel tower, is part of Grand LA, designed by architect Frank Gehry. (Jay L. Clendenin/Los Angeles Times)


A rendering of the Fourth & Central courtyard. (Studio One Eleven / Adjaye Associates)


Passengers wait at the Little Tokyo / Arts District Metro Station. (Myung J. Chun / Los Angeles Times)

Thomas Curwen
Los Angeles Times
August 28, 2024

When the Los Angeles City Council approved a new community plan for its
historic core last year, the unanimous vote set into motion a radical change
for the city. Downtown, primarily known for its office buildings and industry,
could now be key in solving the region’s housing crisis.

DTLA 2040 — as the community plan is known — will nearly double the area
where housing can be built, with the goal of enticing developers to enter the
market and build nearly 100,000 new residences downtown over the next 20
years. It will go into effect early next year, pending committee approvals and
another council vote.

Even though the megadevelopment Fourth & Central was well in its planning
stages before DTLA 2040 was approved, it offers a preview of how
downtown Los Angeles will probably change in the coming decades.
Critics may oppose its size and scale, but some urbanists believe this type of
development is unavoidable if Los Angeles is to meet the goals of DTLA 2040
and create more housing in a region where buildable land is both scarce and
expensive. “Los Angeles is continuing to follow a trajectory of greater
density, moving from the kind of suburban-sprawl city to one that has
greater mass,” said architect Michael Maltzan, who has worked in the city for
almost 30 years. “That is an inevitability.”
. . . .

[SoCalKid]

This thread has jumped the shark. It's ok to acknowledge that homelessness and issues surrounding it have gotten much worse since the pandemic in places like DTLA. It doesn't mean we haven't simultaneously seen tons of progress on bringing new residents, restaurants, hotels, etc. to the area in the last decade. I'm as thrilled by that as anyone. But if we want to attract even more residents and visitors (and especially office jobs, which have declined meaningfully) to DTLA outside of just the committed urbanist camp (us!), we need to focus on every day livability. And homelessness and cleanliness are at the top of that list. I can tell you as a senior person at a large development shop, the investment attitude towards downtown in the industry is very negative right now, and very few groups are interested in building there right now. Rents have not kept up since the pandemic while costs have shot up, and that makes it nearly impossible for us to build. Only a couple groups like Onni with internal capital (nearly all development companies have to raise money from outside investors!) and very long time horizons are in the market in DTLA right now. But here's the thing - that's a moment in time thing, and markets shift. So we should be focused on capitalizing on all of the awesome development we've seen in the last decade by cleaning our streets, addressing homelessness, making the area more livable, and pushing our politicians to adopt pro-growth policies (insert my obligatory statement that Measure ULA was the dumbest law in recent LA history... sigh). That way when the markets shift, DTLA could be well positioned for another boom. And imagine what level another boom could bring DTLA to! But it's not a foregone conclusion, and many in the development world would tell you that another boom in DTLA is decades away. So it's up to residents and stakeholders to prove them wrong by helping set up DTLA by addressing its issues now. You can love DTLA and still criticize the City's failures to address its issues!

Rant over.

[edale]

Originally Posted by SoCalKid

This thread has jumped the shark. It's ok to acknowledge that homelessness and issues surrounding it have gotten much worse since the pandemic in places like DTLA. It doesn't mean we haven't simultaneously seen tons of progress on bringing new residents, restaurants, hotels, etc. to the area in the last decade. I'm as thrilled by that as anyone. But if we want to attract even more residents and visitors (and especially office jobs, which have declined meaningfully) to DTLA outside of just the committed urbanist camp (us!), we need to focus on every day livability. And homelessness and cleanliness are at the top of that list. I can tell you as a senior person at a large development shop, the investment attitude towards downtown in the industry is very negative right now, and very few groups are interested in building there right now. Rents have not kept up since the pandemic while costs have shot up, and that makes it nearly impossible for us to build. Only a couple groups like Onni with internal capital (nearly all development companies have to raise money from outside investors!) and very long time horizons are in the market in DTLA right now. But here's the thing - that's a moment in time thing, and markets shift. So we should be focused on capitalizing on all of the awesome development we've seen in the last decade by cleaning our streets, addressing homelessness, making the area more livable, and pushing our politicians to adopt pro-growth policies (insert my obligatory statement that Measure ULA was the dumbest law in recent LA history... sigh). That way when the markets shift, DTLA could be well positioned for another boom. And imagine what level another boom could bring DTLA to! But it's not a foregone conclusion, and many in the development world would tell you that another boom in DTLA is decades away. So it's up to residents and stakeholders to prove them wrong by helping set up DTLA by addressing its issues now. You can love DTLA and still criticize the City's failures to address its issues!

Rant over.

Oh look, yet another bot who's been programmed to spread lies and hate DTLA!

In all seriousness, I totally agree with everything you said here.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by edale

Oh look, yet another bot who's been programmed to spread lies and hate DTLA!

In all seriousness, I totally agree with everything you said here.

Theres def some here who do. One guy is totally obssesed with hyperbole in LA and its not citywatch.
And theres people like this online who are obsessed with LA as well, most who live in shitholes I wont name because people get mad If I "talk down"
Absurd..

[scania]

Originally Posted by SoCalKid

This thread has jumped the shark. It's ok to acknowledge that homelessness and issues surrounding it have gotten much worse since the pandemic in places like DTLA. It doesn't mean we haven't simultaneously seen tons of progress on bringing new residents, restaurants, hotels, etc. to the area in the last decade. I'm as thrilled by that as anyone. But if we want to attract even more residents and visitors (and especially office jobs, which have declined meaningfully) to DTLA outside of just the committed urbanist camp (us!), we need to focus on every day livability. And homelessness and cleanliness are at the top of that list. I can tell you as a senior person at a large development shop, the investment attitude towards downtown in the industry is very negative right now, and very few groups are interested in building there right now. Rents have not kept up since the pandemic while costs have shot up, and that makes it nearly impossible for us to build. Only a couple groups like Onni with internal capital (nearly all development companies have to raise money from outside investors!) and very long time horizons are in the market in DTLA right now. But here's the thing - that's a moment in time thing, and markets shift. So we should be focused on capitalizing on all of the awesome development we've seen in the last decade by cleaning our streets, addressing homelessness, making the area more livable, and pushing our politicians to adopt pro-growth policies (insert my obligatory statement that Measure ULA was the dumbest law in recent LA history... sigh). That way when the markets shift, DTLA could be well positioned for another boom. And imagine what level another boom could bring DTLA to! But it's not a foregone conclusion, and many in the development world would tell you that another boom in DTLA is decades away. So it's up to residents and stakeholders to prove them wrong by helping set up DTLA by addressing its issues now. You can love DTLA and still criticize the City's failures to address its issues!

Rant over.

Lol. I pretty much agree with most of what you’ve stated. I personally believe the one thing to develop which would be a game changer is to put money into developing residential from San Pedro/2nd and San Pedro/8th all the way to the Arts District. The street grid is already there. And obviously you would build neighborhood conveniences. This is probably the biggest miss in LA. And it would largely reduce the housing shortage. With that being said, the homeless issue in DTLA as a resident is worse indirectly on Main St/and 6th and Spring. The other areas of DTLA has seen a decline. I’m one who walk the streets of DTLA on a daily basis for cardio purposes and sometimes for entertainment with friends.

[Doctorboffin]

I should not have read the comments on that LA times article about 4th and Central. Those people are insane. Shame they downsized the main tower to 30 floors instead of the original 44, but at least they added a new 26 story building to make up for the lost units.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by Doctorboffin

I should not have read the comments on that LA times article about 4th and Central. Those people are insane. Shame they downsized the main tower to 30 floors instead of the original 44, but at least they added a new 26 story building to make up for the lost units.

I prefer two buildings of 30 and 26 stories over a 44-story tower and a mid-rise, although the reason why it was downsized (community concerns about it being too tall) is vexing and, frankly, ridiculous.

[craigs]

Originally Posted by Quixote

I prefer two buildings of 30 and 26 stories over a 44-story tower and a mid-rise.

Agreed. I also think it's smart to shift away from office space. Housing is what downtown needs the most.

[Blesha13]

Unpopular opinion, but imagine having new Dodger Stadium in the Arts District area? The aesthetics down there and with 4th and Central in the coming years gives Ebbets Field, maybe a modernized Ebbets Field stadium? The B/D Line down the LA River, the future Southeast Gateway Line will run through Alameda if I’m not mistaken will fill the void of Arts District being separated from the “core” of DTLA.

[caligrad]

Originally Posted by Doctorboffin

I should not have read the comments on that LA times article about 4th and Central. Those people are insane. Shame they downsized the main tower to 30 floors instead of the original 44, but at least they added a new 26 story building to make up for the lost units.

Sadly, most of the people in the comments I can assure you aren't even from here.

[Illithid Dude]

Originally Posted by Blesha13

Unpopular opinion, but imagine having new Dodger Stadium in the Arts District area? The aesthetics down there and with 4th and Central in the coming years gives Ebbets Field, maybe a modernized Ebbets Field stadium? The B/D Line down the LA River, the future Southeast Gateway Line will run through Alameda if I’m not mistaken will fill the void of Arts District being separated from the “core” of DTLA.

There will never be another Dodger Stadium.

[ajbeaver25]

After 2 years google earth has finally updated their imagery of downtown LA :O

You can now the completed fig 8th and work on olympic/hill and alloy.

[craigs]

Not the biggest downtown project u/c right now, and certainly not one of the best-covered--but wow! From a June post by Dan Caroselli on X:

600 San Pedro, the new 300-unit 17-story Weingart permanent supportive housing project, is shaping up to be one of the best-looking apartment towers in recent memory here in LA.

[Illithid Dude]

What the hell that looks nothing like the renders. We are so used to buildings being value engineered and downgraded, is this the first time the inverse has happened?