[Saint John] 91 King Street | ?m | ?s | Site Prep

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

That’s atrocious. A generic looking 20 storey apartment or condo tower would have looked a lot better. Those weird ass corner spikes trying to evoke a mansard roof of whatever are ostentatious and need to go!

[jonny golden]

I might as well add in my 2¢ worth. I also don't like the top corner additions - they're way too pronounced. You can add some architectural features, but these are oversized and look awful.

I do like the brick on the bottom 3 floors though. I also think the market would support more units - i.e. a taller building.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by sailor734

So, no balcony's except corner units on top two floors? To me that's a real fail.

......and those cornice thingies? really not sure on those.

Am I counting wrong or has it shrunk from 12 floors to 11?

Overall my reaction is...."The 1920's/1930's called, they want their design back." I can certainly see how they are trying to match the IOL building and the Admiral Beatty.

Having said all that, I do like the colour sceme.

In regards to the balconies, from an aesthetic point of view from the street it looks nicer without them. As for tenants, they can choose to rent and not have any - many people don’t want balconies so whoever rents there will be indifferent about them. This is what I dislike about new buildings in Halifax - you’re just looking at a sea of balconies.

For Percy, no balconies, lowering interests rates, 40% more apartments, one less floor, more underground parking = he can build it right away with his sharp pencil.

[cdnguys]

This is the new seaport area in Boston - apartment buildings have no balconies and they look a lot nicer in my opinion. Who wants to look at balconies from the street?

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

In regards to the balconies, from an aesthetic point of view from the street it looks nicer without them. As for tenants, they can choose to rent and not have any - many people don’t want balconies so whoever rents there will be indifferent about them. This is what I dislike about new buildings in Halifax - you’re just looking at a sea of balconies.

For Percy, no balconies, lowering interests rates, 40% more apartments, one less floor, more underground parking = he can build it right away with his sharp pencil.

Fair points.

I was speaking for myself as an empty nester and a potential (someday) high rise occupant. I know when visiting family on the west coast I am on the balcony (25th floor with ocean views) several times a day. Not being able to step outside for a breath of fresh air or to sit and have morning coffee or a pre dinner drink would be a deal breaker for me. As it is the building looks like a hotel.

I get that some people won't care but this seems like a real wasted opportunity to me.

[adamuptownsj]

Balconies have surprisingly low ROI for builders. They add very little to rents, even upper-end ones, in this climate.

[MonctonRad]

Given the surrounding streetscape, and in the interests of historical and architectural integrity, I can understand why they chose to go without balconies.

But, as a matter of personal preference, if I was ever to move to a downtown highrise in my rapidly approaching declining years, I would definitely prefer a building with balconies.

The buildings at Fundy Quay will have balconies, right??? Nice to have for ship spotting in the summertime. Balconies would definitely work here (the development is a tabula rasa, meaning you do not have to take architectural context into consideration).

This begs the question; to what market segment is 91 King being promoted to? Is this building to be considered high end? If so, it will be in direct competition with Fundy Quay, which could be problematic. Or, is 91 King considered more of a mid market project. This might be an easier sell given the lack of balconies and no waterfront location.

[Pugsley]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

This is the new seaport area in Boston - apartment buildings have no balconies and they look a lot nicer in my opinion. Who wants to look at balconies from the street?

The red brick structure in the back of this image would be a much more suitable design for the site. Incorporating the traditional materials but a slightly more modern twist.

[Woho]

MonctonRad, the newest rendering of the first building does have balconies. So does the second building on the upper section, but not on the lower section.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Given the surrounding streetscape, and in the interests of historical and architectural integrity, I can understand why they chose to go without balconies.

But, as a matter of personal preference, if I was ever to move to a downtown highrise in my rapidly approaching declining years, I would definitely prefer a building with balconies.

The buildings at Fundy Quay will have balconies, right??? Nice to have for ship spotting in the summertime. Balconies would definitely work here (the development is a tabula rasa, meaning you do not have to take architectural context into consideration).

This begs the question; to what market segment is 91 King being promoted to? Is this building to be considered high end? If so, it will be in direct competition with Fundy Quay, which could be problematic. Or, is 91 King considered more of a mid market project. This might be an easier sell given the lack of balconies and no waterfront location.

Will not be high end - prob be same fit and finishing as The Wentworth which is nothing special

[bridgeoftea]

Hey, anything is better than a big hole in the ground on one of the most prominent sight seeing streets in Saint John.

[sailor734]

I'm curious. Do you think there is sufficient demand in SJ to support a truly "high end" apartment building? I say apartment because I'm not convinced a similar condo development uptown would sell.

When I say high end I am thinking concrete construction with good soundproofing, a concierge, fitness center, pool, hospitality suite, party room, meeting room etc.

larger units with well above average room sizes, high quality finishes, features and fixtures 1-2 underground parking spots per unit depending on unit size plus bike lockers, key fob security for garage, lobby and elevators etc etc

Probably located either somewhere with a bit of green space around it ( Millidgeville?) or if uptown with compelling harbour/ocean views.

I’ve no idea if the best of the buildings at Fundy Quay will be up to this sort of standard but if not it will be something of a shame and a waste of a premier location

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by sailor734

I'm curious. Do you think there is sufficient demand in SJ to support a truly "high end" apartment building? I say apartment because I'm not convinced a similar condo development uptown would sell.

When I say high end I am thinking concrete construction with good soundproofing, a concierge, fitness center, pool, hospitality suite, party room, meeting room etc.

larger units with well above average room sizes, high quality finishes, features and fixtures 1-2 underground parking spots per unit depending on unit size plus bike lockers, key fob security for garage, lobby and elevators etc etc

Probably located either somewhere with a bit of green space around it ( Millidgeville?) or if uptown with compelling harbour/ocean views.

I’ve no idea if the best of the buildings at Fundy Quay will be up to this sort of standard but if not it will be something of a shame and a waste of a premier location

I think there is enough demand for a couple high end buildings. And no, 99 King not a high end place. There are thosands of KV residents who are within 5 to 10 years of retirement with kids no longer home, who had their home value triple or quadruple in value who will want amenities and culture/restaurants in the next phase of their life.

[DyAm00394]

Sign on the fence says “coming Spring 2026”. (Photo posted by the mayor on social media).

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

I think there is enough demand for a couple high end buildings. And no, 99 King not a high end place. There are thosands of KV residents who are within 5 to 10 years of retirement with kids no longer home, who had their home value triple or quadruple in value who will want amenities and culture/restaurants in the next phase of their life.

We kind of fit that demographic (although in Millidgeville and already retired). Empty nesters with a big house of which we use kitchen, family room, office and master BR. Other than dinner parties or Christmas the formal dining room and living room sit empty. As do all the other BR's.

Biggest problem is that there is very little that we would want to downsize to.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

I think there is enough demand for a couple high end buildings. And no, 99 King not a high end place. There are thosands of KV residents who are within 5 to 10 years of retirement with kids no longer home, who had their home value triple or quadruple in value who will want amenities and culture/restaurants in the next phase of their life.

I think many boomers coming back to SJ from KV would rather live in a suburban area like the West Side than Uptown Saint John. There’s all kids of opportunities to build nice high rise buildings over the West Side… Island View Heights, Churchill Heights, Greendale, Randolph, Milford, and the entire coastal strip from Bayshore to Lorneville, there’s all kinds of room to squeeze in some nice mid rises and high rises that boomers selling their nest egg could either afford to purchase or rent.

I don’t think many soon to retire KV boomers want to live a hyper walkable lifestyle Uptown or envision themselves walking to the grocery store every day like Europeans… although, I wish they would. Going from 20 minutes drives into the city to 5-10 minutes anywhere in the city will be quite a change for many, and the influx of boomers with disposable income would bring about new amenities, culture, and restaurants that the West Side is lacking. Many of them moved to KV from the West Side too.


Compared to Uptown, most of the West Side hasn’t seen any sort of crime and homelessness problems like Uptown has. There’s some sketchy parts of the the lower west side still, and the Belyea homeless shelter was an unmitigated disaster, but it’s still nothing like what has happened Uptown regarding the rise of crime and the homelessness and addictions epidemic. Also, the seagulls are like 100 times nosier Uptown than they are on the West Side.

If The Fundy Region is compared as a microcosm to the Bay Area… boomers from the valley aren’t selling their homes to buy apartments in downtown San Francisco. Uptown Saint John obviously has nothing on Downtown SF in terms of homelessness, crime, and drug addiction, but it’s still a raising concern.

Until we see a big improvement, I think most boomers looking to sell their nest egg and downsize to a smaller two bedroom condo or an apartment in the city would rather live in Saint John’s suburban communities. Saint John has an opportunity to devise a strategy to get more mid rises and high rises built before these thousands of KV boomers retire, while their communities remain largely opposed to mid rise and high rises going up in their communities.

It shouldn’t be that hard to market condos and apartments in mid rises and high rises. Imo, they’re way more desirable than the average garden home which is all the rage here in SJ, because they’ll have better sound proofing, they’ll have better views, and they’ll create denser, more vibrant communities.

Obviously, there’s lots of room for residential development on both sides of the harbour… hopefully enough occurs to eventually bring the harbour ferry back one day.

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

I think many boomers coming back to SJ from KV would rather live in a suburban area like the West Side than Uptown Saint John. There’s all kids of opportunities to build nice high rise buildings over the West Side… Island View Heights, Churchill Heights, Greendale, Randolph, Milford, and the entire coastal strip from Bayshore to Lorneville, there’s all kinds of room to squeeze in some nice mid rises and high rises that boomers selling their nest egg could either afford to purchase or rent.

I don’t think many soon to retire KV boomers want to live a hyper walkable lifestyle Uptown or envision themselves walking to the grocery store every day like Europeans… although, I wish they would. Going from 20 minutes drives into the city to 5-10 minutes anywhere in the city will be quite a change for many, and the influx of boomers with disposable income would bring about new amenities, culture, and restaurants that the West Side is lacking. Many of them moved to KV from the West Side too.


Compared to Uptown, most of the West Side hasn’t seen any sort of crime and homelessness problems like Uptown has. There’s some sketchy parts of the the lower west side still, and the Belyea homeless shelter was an unmitigated disaster, but it’s still nothing like what has happened Uptown regarding the rise of crime and the homelessness and addictions epidemic. Also, the seagulls are like 100 times nosier Uptown than they are on the West Side.

If The Fundy Region is compared as a microcosm to the Bay Area… boomers from the valley aren’t selling their homes to buy apartments in downtown San Francisco. Uptown Saint John obviously has nothing on Downtown SF in terms of homelessness, crime, and drug addiction, but it’s still a raising concern.

Until we see a big improvement, I think most boomers looking to sell their nest egg and downsize to a smaller two bedroom condo or an apartment in the city would rather live in Saint John’s suburban communities. Saint John has an opportunity to devise a strategy to get more mid rises and high rises built before these thousands of KV boomers retire, while their communities remain largely opposed to mid rise and high rises going up in their communities.

It shouldn’t be that hard to market condos and apartments in mid rises and high rises. Imo, they’re way more desirable than the average garden home which is all the rage here in SJ, because they’ll have better sound proofing, they’ll have better views, and they’ll create denser, more vibrant communities.

Obviously, there’s lots of room for residential development on both sides of the harbour… hopefully enough occurs to eventually bring the harbour ferry back one day.

My in-laws sold their home and moved uptown to a new building a LOVE it! They befriended many in the building who also downsized from a home out in the valley. Many of these folks grew up in SJ and miss that lifestyle now that the kids are moved out. They love going to the market, imperial theatre, walking the passage and eating out and not having to drive home.

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by DyAm00394

Sign on the fence says “coming Spring 2026”. (Photo posted by the mayor on social media).

I can't believe they're still using that logo that looks like someone who runs a vape shop designed it. Worse yet it found its way into the renderings at every upper corner of the building. Awful.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

My in-laws sold their home and moved uptown to a new building a LOVE it! They befriended many in the building who also downsized from a home out in the valley. Many of these folks grew up in SJ and miss that lifestyle now that the kids are moved out. They love going to the market, imperial theatre, walking the passage and eating out and not having to drive home.

Definitely a lot of pluses for Uptown, but also some unique issues. Think there’s lots of room for mid rise and high rise developments all over the city. The valley won’t remain opposed to these type of developments forever, especially not when more and more boomers are fully retired and looking to downsize.

We have an opportunity to get some of the people back that moved to KV from SJ over the last few decades, but imo, we need a better strategy to attract the right type of developers that can these type of condos and apartments built that people will want to live in.

[OliverD]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

It shouldn’t be that hard to market condos and apartments in mid rises and high rises. Imo, they’re way more desirable than the average garden home which is all the rage here in SJ, because they’ll have better sound proofing, they’ll have better views, and they’ll create denser, more vibrant communities.

There's a lot of boomers who may have never lived in an apartment, or last lived in one in university or college, who are apprehensive about making the leap and for those people garden homes are appealing for various reasons. So I don't think that one is necessarily way more desirable than the other.