Trans Canada Highway Twinning: Segments U/C

[craner]

Originally Posted by Ozabald

Notwithstanding BC-99 not built to the same standard as a US Interstate, nonetheless, it is a fully controlled access freeway from Canadian customs to the Oak Street Bridge.

Yes true but still a downgrade from Interstate standards as you mention. Not the same as Interstate to Ontario 400 series for example but a level up from the AB and MB transitions.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Ozabald

To be fair, there is tourist traffic in the summer for St Andrews. There must be some political pull on both sides of the border that St. Stephen/Calais have three border crossings.

Two of those border crossings are old and grandfathered. The third crossing was built specifically for the new highway.

Don't get me wrong. I like Irving's Highway. It is a true pleasure to drive on, and ensures you can make it to Bangor ME from Moncton in slightly less than four hours. I just wish they would finish up the necessary highway work in eastern NB too.

I often wonder what American tourists think, wending their way for 90 minutes or so along the old Airline Route in eastern Maine, only to get to the border and be confronted with one of the nicest highways on the continent when they cross into Canada. They must feel like they've entered some form of bizarro universe.

[craner]

Originally Posted by Acajack

That's a good question. I've always wondered that as well. At the moment it has a good linkage with the TCH but back when it was built it was far from certain as to when the TCH in NB would be twinned. It was a very long way off.

Maybe economic development or political pressures?

Note that right now there are pressures from parts of Maine north of there (Caribou, Madawaska) to get I-95 extended northwards. Houlton is in the same county as these cities but there is more population to the north where I-95 does not go. Even so, we're talking about not much population. The entire county has 65,000 people.

If they were to do that (they're Americans - one never knows) then I suppose the branch of I-95 that goes due east from Houlton to the border would be re-numbered to I-(single number)95 or something.

I would assume the same.

It’s unfortunate Maine got to extend north to create that big notch between Quebec & NB. Would be nice if the international border extended straight east from where it is south of Sherbrooke to lop-off the top of Maine and make it Canadian territory.

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by craner

I would assume the same.

It’s unfortunate Maine got to extend north to create that big notch between Quebec & NB. Would be nice if the international border extended straight east from where it is south of Sherbrooke to lop-off the top of Maine and make it Canadian territory.

I suspect it was built up to Houlton to provide better connections to northern Maine, and the Canadian border crossing was secondary.

Indeed - The reason I cross the border so frequently is that it's faster to drive through the US to Saint John than it is to stay in Canada. This is a bit less true today than back in the day now that the Trans-Canada is mostly freeway, but still applies. If Northern Maine had instead been a domestic route, the Trans-Canada likely would have been routed straight from Woodstock over to Saint-Georges, shaving about 150km off the domestic route.. and it would have been faster to stay in Canada.

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Irving's Highway to Prosperity.

They conned the province and the feds into building it to stimulate cross border trade from Saint John to the US eastern seaboard, with the expectation that the US government would reciprocate and extend I-495 in Bangor all the way to the border.

The Americans however were disinclined to cooperate.

Too bad, NB-! from Saint John to St. Stephen is the most overengineered highway I have ever seen (probably with the lowest AADT in the federation).

Meanwhile, the province refuses to finish dividing NB -11 north from Shediac to Bouctouche, and NB-15 east from Shediac to Cap Pele where exurban Moncton commuter traffic and summer tourism traffic are actually high enough that it would make some sense.

Those are certainly freeway gaps which need to be filled in NB. I would argue that NB-15 should be twinned all the way to TCH-16. The remaining gaps on NB-7 need to be filled. As well, perhaps NB-15 could be extended over to Riverview from the current western terminus. Get rid of the roundabout around Champlain Mall, the lights at Botsford and have a proper interchange for YQM on NB-15. Then NB should be good to go for freeways for the foreseeable future.

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Two of those border crossings are old and grandfathered. The third crossing was built specifically for the new highway.

Don't get me wrong. I like Irving's Highway. It is a true pleasure to drive on, and ensures you can make it to Bangor ME from Moncton in slightly less than four hours. I just wish they would finish up the necessary highway work in eastern NB too.

I often wonder what American tourists think, wending their way for 90 minutes or so along the old Airline Route in eastern Maine, only to get to the border and be confronted with one of the nicest highways on the continent when they cross into Canada. They must feel like they've entered some form of bizarro universe.

I think of the opposite. As an example, an American tourist coming north on I-29 through North Dakota. It's decent Interstate overall (with some rough spots) with a 75MPH speed limit. Cross the border into Friendly Manitoba and you are on MB-75; a bad road with no interchanges; a very poor surface with warning signs that state "Pavement Breaks"; which is a nice euphemism for watch out for the concrete chunks and tire killing holes; intersections; and the highway becomes the main drag through Morris and the St. Norbert area of Winnipeg; 50km/h speed limit, traffic lights and numerous driveways. And to quote you, "they must feel like they've entered some form of bizarro universe"!!

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by craner

I would assume the same.

It’s unfortunate Maine got to extend north to create that big notch between Quebec & NB. Would be nice if the international border extended straight east from where it is south of Sherbrooke to lop-off the top of Maine and make it Canadian territory.

Webster-Ashburton Treaty of 1842 defined the disputed parts of the Canada-US border. The border with Maine was a compromise between the UK and USA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webster–As...File:Webster-Ashburton_treaty_map-en.svg

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by Ozabald

Webster-Ashburton Treaty of 1842 defined the disputed parts of the Canada-US border. The border with Maine was a compromise between the UK and USA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Webster–As...File:Webster-Ashburton_treaty_map-en.svg

For a long time, the population on both sides of the border, virtually identical in terms of demographics, at least philosophically disagreed with the new international border that separated them from their brothers and sisters, and referred to the cross-border region as the Republic of Madawaska.

There were still signs and flags referring to that when I was a kid in the 70s and 80s, though it seems to have faded now.

[Taeolas]

Yeah 9-11 basically killed the cross border community in eastern NB. I grew up in Richmond Corner, and in the 80s/90s, going over to Houlton was as common as going into Town (Woodstock). Houlton's Walmart was basically built because of all the NB visitors, and a run down to Bangor was as common as a run down to Moncton or Halifax (if not more common).

After 9/11 and the border tightened up, those visits died off a lot (my parents still live there). Plus, the NB retail landscape improved significantly as retail chains started noticing the Maritimes. Walmart, Tims, McDs, KFC, Pizza Hut, etc... all came to Woodstock. Costco came to Fredericton, and Moncton just became a shopping hub in general. So with tighter border restrictions, a worsening exchange rate, better highway connections in NB and better shopping options in province, all led to the crossborder shopping habit basically drying up.

As for why I-95 went up to Houlton? I have no idea. I suspect wanting to spur development in Northern Maine was a factor. Also, remember Fort Fairfield used to be a major US Military base back in the day, so having relatively close Interstate Access to it was probably a boon.

The NB-95 connection is only relatively (15-20 years old) new; happening when the TCH was twinned. I remembered when the TCH was being twinned, I suggested to my dad that they would finish twinning to the border, and he scoffed at the idea, saying it would never happen because it wasn't worth it. So I was rather surprised to see them do it in the end. It's a nice stretch of highway and useful for me going home, but I'm still a little peeved that they closed off access to Plymouth Road, forcing me to go all the way up to Richmond Corner.

[Dengler Avenue]

Now you all have me wondering whether there used to be more traffic between Duluth, Minnesota, and Thunder Bay, Ontario, too.
I’ve always fantasized an I35-ON461 connection.

[ConundrumNL]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

As for why I-95 went up to Houlton? I have no idea. I suspect wanting to spur development in Northern Maine was a factor. Also, remember Fort Fairfield used to be a major US Military base back in the day, so having relatively close Interstate Access to it was probably a boon.

The base is probably the reason. Connecting military bases are one reasons for the Interstate system. This system's full name is ' The Dwight D. Eisenhower National System of Interstate and Defense Highways'.

[Taeolas]

Originally Posted by ConundrumNL

The base is probably the reason. Connecting military bases are one reasons for the Interstate system. This system's full name is ' The Dwight D. Eisenhower National System of Interstate and Defense Highways'.

To slightly correct myself, the airbase was Loring Airforce Base which is near Caribou Maine (same general area).

I'm a bit surprised they didn't push I-95 all the way up to there if that was the main impetus for the Interstate in the area.

[Dengler Avenue]

https://www.ourcommons.ca/petitions/en/Petition/Details?Petition=e-5111

[craner]

^Thanks Dengler - signed.
This project seems like such low hanging fruit - it’s all ready to go - it literally just needs the funding.
But of course the LPC is no longer funding road projects.

[srperrycgy]

-Signed as well.

If there is a petition to raise the speed limit in Banff from 90 to 100 km/h, I'll sign that one too.

[craner]

Hey srperrycgy - do you have any videos of the completed Calgary Ring Road ?

[harls]

Originally Posted by Ozabald

I think of the opposite. As an example, an American tourist coming north on I-29 through North Dakota. It's decent Interstate overall (with some rough spots) with a 75MPH speed limit. Cross the border into Friendly Manitoba and you are on MB-75; a bad road with no interchanges; a very poor surface with warning signs that state "Pavement Breaks"; which is a nice euphemism for watch out for the concrete chunks and tire killing holes; intersections; and the highway becomes the main drag through Morris and the St. Norbert area of Winnipeg; 50km/h speed limit, traffic lights and numerous driveways. And to quote you, "they must feel like they've entered some form of bizarro universe"!!

You are going to make Justanothermember's head explode..

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by harls

You are going to make Justanothermember's head explode..

It must hurt when the Manitoba bubble is popped.

[Ozabald]

delete

[Ozabald]

Originally Posted by Taeolas

To slightly correct myself, the airbase was Loring Airforce Base which is near Caribou Maine (same general area).

I'm a bit surprised they didn't push I-95 all the way up to there if that was the main impetus for the Interstate in the area.

Drove I-95 in Maine this week from the NB border to Bangor. Have to say what an excellent highway to drive. Very well maintained with very few bumps. Heading south, traffic very light until around Exit 227 for Lincoln. From that point southwards, traffic did noticeably pick up.

Looks like I-95 will not be extended to Fort Kent anytime soon.
https://www.bangordailynews.com/2024/01/...pursue-aroostook-i-95-extension-for-now/