PHILADELPHIA | Highrise Development Thread X

[TK2001]

Philadelphia skyline by Philly SkyGuy, on Flickr

[thisisforreal]

Originally Posted by Skang

Guys be honest, That’s Philadelphia still has a top 10 skyline ?

To add a little flavor to the discussion, I like to incorporate the feeling of how you encounter the skyline firsthand into the equation, and not rank solely on postcard view. For that reason, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati make a surge in my rankings. For Pittsburgh, emerging from the Fort Pitt Tunnel and for Cincinnati, making the turn from the cut-in-the-hill both have the effect of approaching the city with no trace of the high rises only to suddenly have the entire skyline 'magically' appear all at once up close is awesome.

[bridge25]

Originally Posted by thisisforreal

To add a little flavor to the discussion, I like to incorporate the feeling of how you encounter the skyline firsthand into the equation, and not rank solely on postcard view. For that reason, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati make a surge in my rankings. For Pittsburgh, emerging from the Fort Pitt Tunnel and for Cincinnati, making the turn from the cut-in-the-hill both have the effect of approaching the city with no trace of the high rises only to suddenly have the entire skyline 'magically' appear all at once up close is awesome.

Similarly, I find Philly's skyline "pops" as soon as you round the bed where 76 East/Roosevelt Boulevard merge.

[Redddog]

Originally Posted by bridge25

Similarly, I find Philly's skyline "pops" as soon as you round the bed where 76 East/Roosevelt Boulevard merge.

Love that moment when you come around that bend and see the skyline.

[JohnIII]

Originally Posted by thisisforreal

To add a little flavor to the discussion, I like to incorporate the feeling of how you encounter the skyline firsthand into the equation, and not rank solely on postcard view. For that reason, Pittsburgh and Cincinnati make a surge in my rankings. For Pittsburgh, emerging from the Fort Pitt Tunnel and for Cincinnati, making the turn from the cut-in-the-hill both have the effect of approaching the city with no trace of the high rises only to suddenly have the entire skyline 'magically' appear all at once up close is awesome.

This is a good question.

But my favourite view of the skyline when its first noticeable is leaving Philadelphia International Airport when you ride north on I-95; really whether its over the Platt Bridge to I-76 or over the double decker bridge on I-95 you enter Philadelphia with the same view and you get to see the real scale and size of center city Philadelphia. You can see how the skyline stretches from Penn's Landing all the way into University City and the view is amazing at night.

[3rd&Brown]

Northbank Update:

I just received a zoning notice today for a revision of the multi-family building that will be built at the corner of Schirra & Richmond (Delaware Avenue).

For those that aren't familiar, there is a multi-family mixed use residential building planned at that corner. It is also intended to have ground floor retail.

I'm putting it in the highrise section based on the below:

"*Project Description: In connection with this vacant land, Richmond Owner proposes to redesign the existing project by:

-Expanding the New Multi-Family Mixed-Use building to increase the number of residential dwelling units to 308 units from 86 units

-Expanding commercial space from 6,090 square feet to 8,115 square feet.

-Increasing its parking garage capacity from 35 to 208 spaces.

I'm here for it.

My suspicion is the developer is Toll, since they were involved in the construction of the for sale homes and their portion is now sold out and the development at Broad and Noble is nearing full completion.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Northbank Update:

I just received a zoning notice today for a revision of the multi-family building that will be built at the corner of Schirra & Richmond (Delaware Avenue).

For those that aren't familiar, there is a multi-family mixed use residential building planned at that corner. It is also intended to have ground floor retail.

I'm putting it in the highrise section based on the below:

"*Project Description: In connection with this vacant land, Richmond Owner proposes to redesign the existing project by:

-Expanding the New Multi-Family Mixed-Use building to increase the number of residential dwelling units to 308 units from 86 units

-Expanding commercial space from 6,090 square feet to 8,115 square feet.

-Increasing its parking garage capacity from 35 to 208 spaces.

I'm here for it.

My suspicion is the developer is Toll, since they were involved in the construction of the for sale homes and their portion is now sold out and the development at Broad and Noble is nearing full completion.

Great news for that area and Northbank. I would normally predict a 5-7 story building, but 308 units is a lot, so perhaps a true mid-rise?

[chimpskibot]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Northbank Update:

I just received a zoning notice today for a revision of the multi-family building that will be built at the corner of Schirra & Richmond (Delaware Avenue).

For those that aren't familiar, there is a multi-family mixed use residential building planned at that corner. It is also intended to have ground floor retail.

I'm putting it in the highrise section based on the below:

"*Project Description: In connection with this vacant land, Richmond Owner proposes to redesign the existing project by:

-Expanding the New Multi-Family Mixed-Use building to increase the number of residential dwelling units to 308 units from 86 units

-Expanding commercial space from 6,090 square feet to 8,115 square feet.

-Increasing its parking garage capacity from 35 to 208 spaces.

I'm here for it.

My suspicion is the developer is Toll, since they were involved in the construction of the for sale homes and their portion is now sold out and the development at Broad and Noble is nearing full completion.

About 2 weeks ago, I biked up the Delaware from Pennsport and ended at Northbank. What an interesting development, I hope the retail is some type of small market. The density is pretty laudable and it appears they have started constructing Duplexes and Triplexes toward the southern portion? I may be wrong. Also the amount of wealth in that neighborhood is surreal. I cannot wait to see the next census data for Philly. What truly surprised me was the diversity of residents and the multiple homes with multiple cars retailing over $100K.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by chimpskibot

About 2 weeks ago, I biked up the Delaware from Pennsport and ended at Northbank. What an interesting development, I hope the retail is some type of small market. The density is pretty laudable and it appears they have started constructing Duplexes and Triplexes toward the southern portion? I may be wrong. Also the amount of wealth in that neighborhood is surreal. I cannot wait to see the next census data for Philly. What truly surprised me was the diversity of residents and the multiple homes with multiple cars retailing over $100K.

Yes. It is very diverse.

I have access to our HOA portal where you can see people's surnames by home. My guess is the neighborhood is about 50% Asian (Mostly Chinese, but also Vietnamese), 20% South Asian (lots of multigenerational homes...there's a group of Indian grandmothers who go out for long walks along the river every night), 15% Black, 15% White.

What I've realized by living here is that there is a certain demographic of person...I'd lump them in the "new money" bucket...that simply doesn't want to live in an old house. I guess I underestimated the power of new construction within city limits, and one of the reasons why the neighborhood has sold so quickly is because it is the only new construction project of this scale within a stone's throw of anywhere you'd want to be.

It's made me rethink about how I think about development in Philadelphia. That one strategy to make sure we continue to grow is to find places within the city (large soft sites, etc) where this can be offered. It doesn't have to be common, but there should be an option like this for those who have this preference at all times.

And yes, the cars are insane. I have an old BMW and I feel poor. BMW, Mercedes, and Teslas are table stakes. But lots of people also have Range Rovers, G Wagons, etc. There are even a few Lambos, Ferraris, and Bentleys.

My guess is average Household Income is over $200k a year. Wouldn't be surprised if it's closer to $300K a year. Also, lots of kids and we're zoned to Richmond School. That doesn't feel right. IMO we should be zoned to Hackett. The southern portion of the site which is building now is zoned to Adaire which is one of the best performing elementary schools in the city.

We've had a few meetings with our local reps (Squilla, Hohenstein, etc) and schools have come up. Hohenstein's immediate reaction when he realized how big the neighborhood was and saw how many kids there are was that the city will probably have to build a new elementary school somewhere around here to accomodate the population growth. I don't disagree with him.

[ScreamShatter]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Yes. It is very diverse.

I have access to our HOA portal where you can see people's surnames by home. My guess is the neighborhood is about 50% Asian (Mostly Chinese, but also Vietnamese), 20% South Asian (lots of multigenerational homes...there's a group of Indian grandmothers who go out for long walks along the river every night), 15% Black, 15% White.

What I've realized by living here is that there is a certain demographic of person...I'd lump them in the "new money" bucket...that simply doesn't want to live in an old house. I guess I underestimated the power of new construction within city limits, and one of the reasons why the neighborhood has sold so quickly is because it is the only new construction project of this scale within a stone's throw of anywhere you'd want to be.

It's made me rethink about how I think about development in Philadelphia. That one strategy to make sure we continue to grow is to find places within the city (large soft sites, etc) where this can be offered. It doesn't have to be common, but there should be an option like this for those who have this preference at all times.

And yes, the cars are insane. I have an old BMW and I feel poor. BMW, Mercedes, and Teslas are table stakes. But lots of people also have Range Rovers, G Wagons, etc. There are even a few Lambos, Ferraris, and Bentleys.

My guess is average Household Income is over $200k a year. Wouldn't be surprised if it's closer to $300K a year. Also, lots of kids and we're zoned to Richmond School. That doesn't feel right. IMO we should be zoned to Hackett. The southern portion of the site which is building now is zoned to Adaire which is one of the best performing elementary schools in the city.

We've had a few meetings with our local reps (Squilla, Hohenstein, etc) and schools have come up. Hohenstein's immediate reaction when he realized how big the neighborhood was and saw how many kids there are was that the city will probably have to build a new elementary school somewhere around here to accomodate the population growth. I don't disagree with him.

Def a cool development. When it was first being built, I went over and construction workers had left the doors unlocked so I toured myself around. I definitely noticed Asian residents looking out the windows. So funny u bring that up.

Is anything going on the lot south of it between the PECO building?

[ok-ez]

Originally Posted by ScreamShatter

Is anything going on the lot south of it between the PECO building?

https://jackphillyre.substack.com/p/even-more-parking-likely-for-the

will be interesting to see what becomes of the area, lots of unknowns like the conrail property to the north, the warehouse strip along richmond/delaware. Also agree with Toni that under 95 should have been put to use, maybe even soccer facilities like they show in Ted Lasso

[shakman]

Originally Posted by JohnIII

This is a good question.

But my favourite view of the skyline when its first noticeable is leaving Philadelphia International Airport when you ride north on I-95; really whether its over the Platt Bridge to I-76 or over the double decker bridge on I-95 you enter Philadelphia with the same view and you get to see the real scale and size of center city Philadelphia. You can see how the skyline stretches from Penn's Landing all the way into University City and the view is amazing at night.

Yes. That's my favorite view as well.

[chimpskibot]

Originally Posted by 3rd&Brown

Yes. It is very diverse.

I have access to our HOA portal where you can see people's surnames by home. My guess is the neighborhood is about 50% Asian (Mostly Chinese, but also Vietnamese), 20% South Asian (lots of multigenerational homes...there's a group of Indian grandmothers who go out for long walks along the river every night), 15% Black, 15% White.

What I've realized by living here is that there is a certain demographic of person...I'd lump them in the "new money" bucket...that simply doesn't want to live in an old house. I guess I underestimated the power of new construction within city limits, and one of the reasons why the neighborhood has sold so quickly is because it is the only new construction project of this scale within a stone's throw of anywhere you'd want to be.

It's made me rethink about how I think about development in Philadelphia. That one strategy to make sure we continue to grow is to find places within the city (large soft sites, etc) where this can be offered. It doesn't have to be common, but there should be an option like this for those who have this preference at all times.

And yes, the cars are insane. I have an old BMW and I feel poor. BMW, Mercedes, and Teslas are table stakes. But lots of people also have Range Rovers, G Wagons, etc. There are even a few Lambos, Ferraris, and Bentleys.

My guess is average Household Income is over $200k a year. Wouldn't be surprised if it's closer to $300K a year. Also, lots of kids and we're zoned to Richmond School. That doesn't feel right. IMO we should be zoned to Hackett. The southern portion of the site which is building now is zoned to Adaire which is one of the best performing elementary schools in the city.

We've had a few meetings with our local reps (Squilla, Hohenstein, etc) and schools have come up. Hohenstein's immediate reaction when he realized how big the neighborhood was and saw how many kids there are was that the city will probably have to build a new elementary school somewhere around here to accomodate the population growth. I don't disagree with him.

You're exactly who I wanted to hear from. Yes I am really hopeful about this development and if it can be connected to Penn treaty park and that industrial area between it and the Battery can be redeveloped this will be a whole new neighborhood apart from NoLibs and Fishtown with a much more upscale feel. Sidenote, I saw two Lamborghini Urus, a Ferrari and another G wagon all of which prompted me to ask about the neighborhood.

[Jerryiz]

Originally Posted by chimpskibot

About 2 weeks ago, I biked up the Delaware from Pennsport and ended at Northbank. What an interesting development, I hope the retail is some type of small market. The density is pretty laudable and it appears they have started constructing Duplexes and Triplexes toward the southern portion? I may be wrong. Also the amount of wealth in that neighborhood is surreal. I cannot wait to see the next census data for Philly. What truly surprised me was the diversity of residents and the multiple homes with multiple cars retailing over $100K.

Originally Posted by chimpskibot

You're exactly who I wanted to hear from. Yes I am really hopeful about this development and if it can be connected to Penn treaty park and that industrial area between it and the Battery can be redeveloped this will be a whole new neighborhood apart from NoLibs and Fishtown with a much more upscale feel. Sidenote, I saw two Lamborghini Urus, a Ferrari and another G wagon all of which prompted me to ask about the neighborhood.

Could someone please post the link to the Northbank thread? I am confused about the location and the project and when I went to browse through the projects I didn't see it?

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Jerryiz

Could someone please post the link to the Northbank thread? I am confused about the location and the project and when I went to browse through the projects I didn't see it?

I don't think there is a thread because it's a sprawling townhome development (for now).

Here is the website with the overall siteplan.

https://www.liveatnorthbank.com/community/site-plan/

[Londonee]

Originally Posted by chimpskibot

You're exactly who I wanted to hear from. Yes I am really hopeful about this development and if it can be connected to Penn treaty park and that industrial area between it and the Battery can be redeveloped this will be a whole new neighborhood apart from NoLibs and Fishtown with a much more upscale feel. Sidenote, I saw two Lamborghini Urus, a Ferrari and another G wagon all of which prompted me to ask about the neighborhood.

It’s still located behind the lumber yard and the dilapidated Asian warehouse about 200 yards from a massive homeless encampment with basically zero walkable amenities, right? Lambos annd Rivians…there’s certainly no accounting for taste. I love 3rd and Brown’s takes on here but that development is insane to me - and the monolithic nature of the design aesthetics…at that scale…doesn’t feel like smart, good urbanism to me. Basically our sad, urban version of Levittown.

I’m glad it’s doing well for sure, but would love to see other developers/designs in there to diversify the streetscape fabric, such as it is.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Londonee

there’s certainly no accounting for taste. I love 3rd and Brown’s takes on here but that development is insane to me

LOL Ok.

Your take was probably the same take people from Rittenhouse had about Garden Court and Spruce Hill in the 1880s. Nothing there, why would you live there. That garish Victorian Architecture, so gaudy...no accounting for taste.

I didn't buy in Northbank because of what it is today. I bought for what I think it will be in 5 or 10 years. Talk to you then.

In the meantime, I can walk to Girard Avenue in 7 minutes and once the newest phase is complete I'll be able to be there even quicker.

[Justin7]

Originally Posted by Londonee

Lambos annd Rivians…there’s certainly no accounting for taste.

I cannot work out how these two brands ended up grouped together in a single sentence. I know it was just a throwaway comment, but... huh?

[Raja]

re Northbank - differences in opinion on aesthetics aside, I think 3rd has a point in that it's tapped into a sleeper market for new neighborhoods in the city. In hindsight, the success of Naval Square and that weird area in Packer Park (Siena Place, is it??) already told us this market was there. Developers eyeing Columbus Blvd south of Washington (ahem, Blatstein) should take notes. If you're not going to build dense, at least extend the grid and build a neighborhood. No more strip malls.

[PHLtoNYC]

Originally Posted by Raja

re Northbank - differences in opinion on aesthetics aside, I think 3rd has a point in that it's tapped into a sleeper market for new neighborhoods in the city. In hindsight, the success of Naval Square and that weird area in Packer Park (Siena Place, is it??) already told us this market was there. Developers eyeing Columbus Blvd south of Washington (ahem, Blatstein) should take notes. If you're not going to build dense, at least extend the grid and build a neighborhood. No more strip malls.

Sorta OT, but I like Sienna Place (I'm sure I will get grief from some for liking it).

I had my first Drexel co-op with PHA at their office on Packer Terrace just north of Sienna Place. At that time (15 years ago), Phase 1 was underway, only ~2 dozen houses up, and most of the site was vacant with tires/trash.

I was in the area last November, and out of curiosity I drove through Sienna Place. It's mostly done, and it looked fantastic. Huge community with stately townhomes, sidewalks, trees, etc. Complete transformation of barren land.

The demand for Northbank is definitely much stronger though. Perhaps Sienna Place was ahead of its time when it started, or a less desirable location.