The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[TitleRequired]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

"I'm at the homeless shelter, I'm at the soccer field, I'm at the combination homeless shelter and soccer field"

[...]

Make this city unappealing to be a drug addicted street dwelling criminal in.

This is partially the thesis of San Fransicko: Why Progressives Ruin Cities by Michael Shellenberger

And Shellenberger is a lefty, that simply has had enough. I highly recommend the book.

[DyAm00394]

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[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by TitleRequired

This is partially the thesis of San Fransicko: Why Progressives Ruin Cities by Michael Shellenberger

And Shellenberger is a lefty, that simply has had enough. I highly recommend the book.

Oh man, I don't need to read it to understand how this happens.

How the province gave two city councils in a row bonus years is beyond me. We're supposed to have municipal elections every four. These people have done nothing to deserve an extra 25% time in office. At the very least, they shouldn't be getting paid.

I suggested the city implement a resign-to-run law for city elected officials seeking provincial or federal office, plus two-term limits, after the last council meeting. They won't, but it's important for them to reject it in front of the general public.

[sailor734]

Another story in the TJ this morning..........https://tj.news/saint-john-south/pol...terloo-village

From the story header....

"Police increase foot patrols amid rising calls to Waterloo Village
Reardon said city council and staff are very aware of what’s happening in the Waterloo Village area and conceded that it seems to be getting worse"

The article talks about non stop fires, assaults, rampant petty thefts and vandalism. Perpetrators arrested and back on the street within hours. (No room in mental health programs and the crimes aren't serious enough in most cases for the criminal justice system to hold them.)

Bob McVicar apparently wrote to council.....

........."Last week’s council agenda package included a letter from real estate agent Bob McVicar imploring councillors and city staff to do more. In his letter he suggested a state of emergency be declared by council as a possible way of getting more resources from outside sources, such as the province, to help.

McVicar, a lifelong Saint John resident, told Brunswick News that as far as he can tell, things are getting worse.

“The encampment at Haymarket Square is getting bigger. A tent popped up at city hall, and one yesterday at Queen’s square. It’s chaos,” he said.

“And the folks who run it keep denying there is violence and they get very defensive about it,” he said. “They very vigorously make the point to me that there is no violence, no problems at the encampments, but there is, and the proof is on social media.” ...............

Seems to me that the increasing frequency in calls for service to police also support his view.



The fabric of civil society (at least in this neighbourhood) is unraveling.

[TitleRequired]

Originally Posted by sailor734

Another story in the TJ this morning..........https://tj.news/saint-john-south/pol...terloo-village

From the story header....

"Police increase foot patrols amid rising calls to Waterloo Village
Reardon said city council and staff are very aware of what’s happening in the Waterloo Village area and conceded that it seems to be getting worse"

The article talks about non stop fires, assaults, rampant petty thefts and vandalism. Perpetrators arrested and back on the street within hours. (No room in mental health programs and the crimes aren't serious enough in most cases for the criminal justice system to hold them.)

Bob McVicar apparently wrote to council.....

........."Last week’s council agenda package included a letter from real estate agent Bob McVicar imploring councillors and city staff to do more. In his letter he suggested a state of emergency be declared by council as a possible way of getting more resources from outside sources, such as the province, to help.

McVicar, a lifelong Saint John resident, told Brunswick News that as far as he can tell, things are getting worse.

“The encampment at Haymarket Square is getting bigger. A tent popped up at city hall, and one yesterday at Queen’s square. It’s chaos,” he said.

“And the folks who run it keep denying there is violence and they get very defensive about it,” he said. “They very vigorously make the point to me that there is no violence, no problems at the encampments, but there is, and the proof is on social media.” ...............

Seems to me that the increasing frequency in calls for service to police also support his view.



The fabric of civil society (at least in this neighbourhood) is unraveling.

Let’s replicate the same mistakes like Zurich with needle park; Vancouver with downtown Eastside; and San Francisco with the tenderloin.

The deterioration of Waterloo inflected at the same time the yellow church got converted to a shelter. There were green sprouts of cleanup; but that was squashed.

The unfortunate thing is # wise it’s a tiny number of people causing this. 183 people according to a survey in 2024 (https://www.homelesshub.ca/community-profile/saint-john)

[cdnguys]

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[cdnguys]

[cdnguys]

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by TitleRequired

Let’s replicate the same mistakes like Zurich with needle park; Vancouver with downtown Eastside; and San Francisco with the tenderloin.

The deterioration of Waterloo inflected at the same time the yellow church got converted to a shelter. There were green sprouts of cleanup; but that was squashed.

The unfortunate thing is # wise it’s a tiny number of people causing this. 183 people according to a survey in 2024 (https://www.homelesshub.ca/community-profile/saint-john)

I feel like the green zone plan has all the potential to be a disaster. I doubt it will significantly lessen the impact of homelessness Uptown. However, it has the potential to spread similar problems to other areas of the city.

It also seems to risk SJ being seen as a sort of “homeless haven”… we already have the mildest winter weather in the province, add in the freedom of these green zones, and people may move here to SJ from elsewhere to live in a tent encampment. Normalizing and enabling tent encampments just seems like a really poor solution. Our city council’s priorities are way out of whack!

[cdnguys]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

I feel like the green zone plan has all the potential to be a disaster. I doubt it will significantly lessen the impact of homelessness Uptown. However, it has the potential to spread similar problems to other areas of the city.

It also seems to risk SJ being seen as a sort of “homeless haven”… we already have the mildest winter weather in the province, add in the freedom of these green zones, and people may move here to SJ from elsewhere to live in a tent encampment. Normalizing and enabling tent encampments just seems like a really poor solution. Our city council’s priorities are way out of whack!

There are claims there are a lot of “new faces” appearing in Waterloo Village - apparently one referred from Riverview, NB to be close to where they can get services. Remember when Alberta’s Ralph Kline bought destitute people bus tickets to greater Vancouver?

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

There are claims there are a lot of “new faces” appearing in Waterloo Village - apparently one referred from Riverview, NB to be close to where they can get services. Remember when Alberta’s Ralph Kline bought destitute people bus tickets to greater Vancouver?

Hey now, don't blame this on us! Miramichi is well known for dealing with it's homeless problem by offering people a one way bus ticket out of town to Moncton.....................

[TitleRequired]

Originally Posted by cdnguys

There are claims there are a lot of “new faces” appearing in Waterloo Village - apparently one referred from Riverview, NB to be close to where they can get s̶e̶r̶v̶i̶c̶e̶s̶.̶ drugs. Remember when Alberta’s Ralph Kline bought destitute people bus tickets to greater Vancouver?

Fixed.

[TitleRequired]

Originally Posted by EnvisionSaintJohn

I feel like the green zone plan has all the potential to be a disaster. I doubt it will significantly lessen the impact of homelessness Uptown. However, it has the potential to spread similar problems to other areas of the city.

It also seems to risk SJ being seen as a sort of “homeless haven”… we already have the mildest winter weather in the province, add in the freedom of these green zones, and people may move here to SJ from elsewhere to live in a tent encampment. Normalizing and enabling tent encampments just seems like a really poor solution. Our city council’s priorities are way out of whack!

Emphasis mine.

I would rather characterize it as enabling a "drug haven."

When the lycee decided to move to uptown I was quite excited; but my wife wasn't. Her reaction was a hard no; uptown is way too sketchy regardless how many or much security there would be. And that was based on impressions prior to covid.

I was not surprised the lycee moved on from the project to greener pastures.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Hey now, don't blame this on us! Miramichi is well known for dealing with it's homeless problem by offering people a one way bus ticket out of town to Moncton.....................

Can’t imagine Rothesay, Quispamsis, and other outlying areas of Saint John are doing any better.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by TitleRequired

Emphasis mine.

I would rather characterize it as enabling a "drug haven."

When the lycee decided to move to uptown I was quite excited; but my wife wasn't. Her reaction was a hard no; uptown is way too sketchy regardless how many or much security there would be. And that was based on impressions prior to covid.

I was not surprised the lycee moved on from the project to greener pastures.

Either way, the city risks spreading these “drug havens” all over town with these green zones, without ever really dealing with the root of the issue with homelessness and drug use Uptown.

The city’s plan screams prioritizing cleaning up Uptown at the expense of other residential areas around the city, instead of just taking the issue of crime head on with the police department.

It’s definitely not surprising the Lycee school moved on, and totally embarrassed our local development agency for doing all the legwork to get them interested in expanding to Atlantic Canada only for Halifax to reap the reward and benefit.

There’s still multiple schools Uptown as is, and a new south end school on the way. The city seems more interested in playing up the “small city with a big heart” motto, than taking the rise in crime seriously. I think their green zone plan risks exporting that crime and disturbances to other neighbourhoods around the city, without fundamentally addressing the root cause of the crime epidemic non Uptown SJ. Council is way too quick to pat themselves on the back over this plan. I think once they actually release some maps showing where these green zones will be located, people will be far less receptive to this plan of theirs.

This current council is a joke, and it’s pathetic they are once again getting a free year added onto their terms without a reason as valid as Covid.

[shazapple]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

To elaborate on the Musquash-area land, here's a detailed map of ~12 discontiguous Nature Conservancy parcels (13 counting nearby Round mMadow Cove): https://ncc-gis.maps.arcgis.com/apps...84a0ac25cc4f12 Loch Alva is picked out pretty cleanly north of this.

Musquash Estuary Marine Protected Area (federal): https://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/oceans/mpa...index-eng.html

Can't find any detail on the Ducks Unlimited lands.

We also don't need three different kinds of protected area in the Fundy National Park vicinity. Big Salmon and Little Salmon Rivers, and nearby Dowdall Lake, Protected Natural Areas, plus the Fundy Trail, and scattered Conservancy, PNA, etc. land in southern Albert County should all be combined with the National Park.

~5 different conservation-oriented regimes govern what really isn't that much territory, often bordering each other. We have an opportunity to really enhance natural protection on the Fundy coast and better market ourselves as a place where you can have serious industry and wilderness in proximity. I doubt Musquash would become a second Alma, but Saint John would surely benefit.

I've always thought that the musquash area would make a great provincial park. There are lakes upon lakes north of the MPA that are DNR owned and just sitting there with nothing but a handful of lease lots around them. Setup some trails and water access and you have a hidden gem right along a major tourism route and just outside of a major city.

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by shazapple

I've always thought that the musquash area would make a great provincial park. There are lakes upon lakes north of the MPA that are DNR owned and just sitting there with nothing but a handful of lease lots around them. Setup some trails and water access and you have a hidden gem right along a major tourism route and just outside of a major city.

I’ve always thought it would be a good place for residential development too. Would be a nice place to have some condos or new housing development, as it’s surrounded by great scenery and closer to the city limits than our biggest suburb, Quispamsis.

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by TitleRequired

Emphasis mine.

I would rather characterize it as enabling a "drug haven."

When the lycee decided to move to uptown I was quite excited; but my wife wasn't. Her reaction was a hard no; uptown is way too sketchy regardless how many or much security there would be. And that was based on impressions prior to covid.

I was not surprised the lycee moved on from the project to greener pastures.

I disagree with the assertion that Uptown is sketchy, I'm there every day, including walking across the highway viaduct past tents, then through those neighbourhood streets and see the vast majority of people enjoying themselves and being productive.

A handful of concerning people shouldn't be allowed to take a beautiful, vibrant place away from us. The more people who spend time Uptown, the more eyes there will be on the streets, the more precedent for good, productive, activities in public and the less a casual visitor will feel "uncomfortable" in the city. If we do the opposite then it will seem worse.

[TitleRequired]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

I disagree with the assertion that Uptown is sketchy, [rest redacted]

Consider looking at the neighborhood in another set of eyes.

Your risk tolerance is quite different than say a 5'4" woman with a 2yo toddler in tow; who grew up in a nice middle class neighborhood. And she has de-escalation skills that would make a FBI hostage negotiator impressed.

For us, how this manifests itself is we select many services outside of uptown; with a bias to Rothesay/Quispamsis.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by TitleRequired

This is partially the thesis of San Fransicko: Why Progressives Ruin Cities by Michael Shellenberger

And Shellenberger is a lefty, that simply has had enough. I highly recommend the book.

Rudy Giuliani is an ass of the highest order, but, as mayor of NYC, he arguably saved the city.

Maybe it's time for some tough love around here too........