Burrard Inlet Rapid Transit - Park Royal-Metrotown via 2nd Narrows | BRT/RRT? - Page 21

jollyburger · #**401** Posted **Yesterday, 10:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helvetia

Out of curiosity, would Lynn Valley be considered "too far up"?

It would probably tack on too much time to the routing to make any sense especially if you are headed out to West Vancouver.

Migrant_Coconut · #**402** Posted **Yesterday, 10:49 PM**

Now if you had a spur line from Lonsdale to Lynn, that would be a keeper. But then we're deep into Fantasy Thread territory.

jollyburger · #**403** Posted **Yesterday, 11:32 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Now if you had a spur line from Lonsdale to Lynn, that would be a keeper. But then we're deep into Fantasy Thread territory.

If they want to open new areas for redevelopment and they don't want to run the line further North you could make a case for a high frequency bus service from Lynn Valley down Grand Boulevard to some station down there. You don't have to deal with traffic around Mountain Highway/Phibbs Exchange as well.

officedweller · #**404** Posted **Yesterday, 11:46 PM**

Daily Hive Guest editorial suggesting Shellburn oil storage site as a OMC location (extends the Hasting portion farther east):

Opinion: Why the Hastings SkyTrain and North Shore SkyTrain lines should be built together
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/hast...ional-planning

A potential OMC Site at the Shellburn Distribution Terminal Site in relation to rapid transit along Hastings Street. (Lee Haber)
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/hast...ional-planning

BIRT SkyTrain interlined with a Hastings SkyTrain. (Lee Haber)
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/hast...ional-planning

Migrant_Coconut · #**405** Posted **Yesterday, 11:50 PM**

I suppose he's got $8+ billion just sitting in his wallet? No? Then the most we can do is build Purple first with future Gold integration in mind.

chowhou · #**406** Posted **Yesterday, 11:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Now if you had a spur line from Lonsdale to Lynn, that would be a keeper. But then we're deep into Fantasy Thread territory.

North-South rail on the North Shore will not have a business case potentially ever.

North-South doesn't have capacity concerns, or speed concerns, or traffic concerns, or really even growth concerns. Busses will handle it for a long time.

I think of the North Shore and Hong Kong Island to be pretty similar geographically, but with obviously different densities. Hong Kong runs the Island Line along the waterfront, and they've only just recently built a line perpendicular to the coastline to service the other side of the island in 2016. Even then, the line doesn't service the Peak (Upper Lonsdale/British Properties?) or Happy Valley (Lynn Valley?). It serves the South Island (Squamish?)

BaddieB · #**407** Posted **Today, 12:11 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by officedweller

Daily Hive Guest editorial suggesting Shellburn oil storage site as a OMC location (extends the Hasting portion farther east):

Opinion: Why the Hastings SkyTrain and North Shore SkyTrain lines should be built together
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/hast...ional-planning

A potential OMC Site at the Shellburn Distribution Terminal Site in relation to rapid transit along Hastings Street. (Lee Haber)
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/hast...ional-planning

BIRT SkyTrain interlined with a Hastings SkyTrain. (Lee Haber)
https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/hast...ional-planning

I have some thoughts

Too many stations. I'll speak for Burnaby, there is no need for
Grange station (likely not even possible with the grade)
Canada Way Stn, just have BCIT station on either Goard (more Central) or Canada Way (for busses)
No South Brentwood station is needed (until there is a train line running on the freight tracks)
Move Parker station up to the corner of Willingdon and Hastings, merging with Confederation
Merge Kootenay and Burnaby Heights into one station, likely at Gilmore.

Also, the Expo/Hastings Line should be elevated all the way until it passes DTES where it can portal around Clark.

Migrant_Coconut · #**408** Posted **Today, 12:30 AM**

Remember that Lee's group wants an HSR line from Squamish through Vancouver to Chilliwack - in that context, Brentwood South makes a lot more "sense."

Sheba · #**409** Posted **Today, 2:26 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaddieB

I have some thoughts

Too many stations. I'll speak for Burnaby, there is no need for
Grange station (likely not even possible with the grade)
Canada Way Stn, just have BCIT station on either Goard (more Central) or Canada Way (for busses)
No South Brentwood station is needed (until there is a train line running on the freight tracks)
Move Parker station up to the corner of Willingdon and Hastings, merging with Confederation
Merge Kootenay and Burnaby Heights into one station, likely at Gilmore.

Also, the Expo/Hastings Line should be elevated all the way until it passes DTES where it can portal around Clark.

Oh god yes! I did a quick check on google maps and for the Burnaby section (Metrotown to Kootenay Loop) the spacing was ridiculously close - in some cases 550m. For reference Metrotown to Patterson station is about 800m.

I was a little more generous than you and would put stations at:
- Metrotown (I presume somewhere around Willingdon and Beresford in case they ever want to continue the line south)
- Burke St
- BCIT at Sanderson as shown
- Canada Way (the Willingdon Lands development)
- Brentwood
- Hastings and Willingdon
- Kootenay (as there's already a bus loop there)

I don't know the North Shore well enough to guess where to put stations, aside from a couple obvious places. It seems odd that they didn't put one at Phibbs Exchange - that one is pretty much a no-brainer.

I have no doubt their Hastings line station spacing will make me shudder as well. Thankfully this is likely waaay into fantasy territory and unless that person is planning on paying for this himself...

Bobert · #**410** Posted **Today, 5:07 AM**

It also kinda ignores the political/demographic realities of the lower mainland. You wont be able to do successive RT projects like that without similar investment south of the fraser

logan5 · #**411** Posted **Today, 5:40 AM**

There would be a large concentration of rail rapid transit in this part of the city with this plan, while all of south Vancouver is neglected. Would rather see our transit dollar directed towards a 41st/49th line, so our rapid transit lines are more evenly spread out.

Sheba · #**412** Posted **Today, 6:20 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobert

It also kinda ignores the political/demographic realities of the lower mainland. You wont be able to do successive RT projects like that without similar investment south of the fraser

Quote:

Originally Posted by logan5

There would be a large concentration of rail rapid transit in this part of the city with this plan, while all of south Vancouver is neglected. Would rather see our transit dollar directed towards a 41st/49th line, so our rapid transit lines are more evenly spread out.

Oh absolutely. I hope they plan for connecting the 'purple line' with a future Hastings line - which I have little doubt will happen someday. I just have no idea when that someday is.

I'm happy to see TransLink putting more effort into BRT lines - a lot cheaper up front and better service than what currently exists (esp once you step outside the CoV). Beyond the current Millennium and Expo line extensions I can't see them building a new Skytrain line anytime soon. They've got enough on their plate with those and the Bby Mountain gondola. Anything else is likely to be BRT for the next decade - hopefully by then they'll be able to get more money to build more Skytrain.

Tvisforme · #**413** Posted **Today, 6:49 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheba

....It seems odd that they didn't put one at Phibbs Exchange - that one is pretty much a no-brainer....

I'd guess that the "Mountain" station, while deriving its name from Mountain Highway, would be integrated with Phibbs Exchange, which is less than 150m from the intersection of Mountain Highway and Main.

chowhou · #**414** Posted **Today, 7:40 AM**

One important fact that transit fantasizers need to come to terms with is that Translink seems to build Skytrain lines for only two goals:

1. Increase regional connectivity of Metro Vancouver urban centres
2. Replace busses when they no longer can do the job

All current Skytrain lines under construction or consideration follow this pattern:
The Broadway Extension provides connections to the West Broadway portion of the Metro Core and will replace the 99 which can no longer handle the traffic.
The Surrey-Langley Extension provices connections to West Fleetwood, Fleetwood, East Clayton, and Langley City.
The UBC Extension provides connections to UBC, and potentially may replace the future traffic on the 99 which has TBD traffic.
The Purple Line provides connections to Lower Lynn, East 3rd (Moodyville), Lonsdale, Marine Drive, and Ambleside and handles traffic over the Second Narrows which cannot be provided by additional busses/bus infrastructure.

Hastings does not meet these simple standards. There is no urban centre along the length of Hastings (though I can imagine a world where Capitol Hill and Westridge get the upgrade in the future), and Hastings seems to have ample ability to run more R5s and potentially even add more dedicated lanes.

Hastings is not happening in the near term, so it's not worth planning around.

DevFan101 · #**415** Posted **Today, 7:46 AM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaddieB

I have some thoughts

Too many stations. I'll speak for Burnaby, there is no need for
Grange station (likely not even possible with the grade)
Canada Way Stn, just have BCIT station on either Goard (more Central) or Canada Way (for busses)
No South Brentwood station is needed (until there is a train line running on the freight tracks)
Move Parker station up to the corner of Willingdon and Hastings, merging with Confederation
Merge Kootenay and Burnaby Heights into one station, likely at Gilmore.

Also, the Expo/Hastings Line should be elevated all the way until it passes DTES where it can portal around Clark.

I agree about merging Kootenay with Buranby Heights. I've always felt like the Kootenay Loop is in a bit of a strange spot. It would make more sense for it to be somewhere more around Boundary or Gilmore.
Also don't need the "Empire" station and the PNE station both. Just make them one station at the merge point of the lines at the corner of the Playland grounds by the soccer fields, which is currently taken up by a surface parking lot.
Can also get rid of the "Confederation" station and move the "Capitol Hill" one a bit further west.

BaddieB · #**416** Posted **Today, 12:02 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by logan5

There would be a large concentration of rail rapid transit in this part of the city with this plan, while all of south Vancouver is neglected. Would rather see our transit dollar directed towards a 41st/49th line, so our rapid transit lines are more evenly spread out.

It really should be that a 41/49 line and the BIRT project get built at the same time as one line. Oakridge-Metrotown-Brentwood-Lonsdale should really be one phase, with extensions further into West Van later.

WarrenC12 · #**417** Posted **Today, 4:01 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by logan5

There would be a large concentration of rail rapid transit in this part of the city with this plan, while all of south Vancouver is neglected. Would rather see our transit dollar directed towards a 41st/49th line, so our rapid transit lines are more evenly spread out.

Yeah no kidding. How many more lines does Burnaby need?

chowhou · #**418** Posted **Today, 6:12 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Yeah no kidding. How many more lines does Burnaby need?

Devil's advocate: Burnaby is the great crossroads of Metro Vancouver. All roads lead to Rome (downtown), but they have to go through Burnaby first. Surrey to Vancouver? Through Burnaby. Richmond to Coquitlam? Through Burnaby. North Shore to anywhere? Probably going through Burnaby.

Regardless, if Translink's plans are to be extrapolated, we're more like to see Skytrain to Port Coquitlam/Maple Ridge than to see Skytrain down Hastings anytime soon.

dpogue · #**419** Posted **Today, 8:26 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by chowhou

One important fact that transit fantasizers need to come to terms with is that Translink seems to build Skytrain lines for only two goals:

1. Increase regional connectivity of Metro Vancouver urban centres
2. Replace busses when they no longer can do the job

Strictly speaking, TransLink doesn't decide where to build SkyTrain: The Mayors' Council does, and their priorities tend to align with the 2 goals you stated.

In terms of ridership, there's much more demand along 41st or 49th than along Hastings, so I would expect to see a train proposal for that ahead of Hastings. That said, there is political pressure for the line to the North Shore and that essentially has to cross through Burnaby and Hastings, but Surrey is definitely going to want their line to Newton after that.

Tvisforme · #**420** Posted **Today, 8:47 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaddieB

It really should be that a 41/49 line and the BIRT project get built at the same time as one line. Oakridge-Metrotown-Brentwood-Lonsdale should really be one phase, with extensions further into West Van later.

Even if they're years apart in separate phases, it would seem to make sense to have the North Shore and 41/49th projects form one line - especially given that they would likely meet at Metrotown anyway. It would connect the NS line to all three existing lines (Expo, Millennium and Canada) plus eastern NS traffic to Richmond, the airport and other points south would not add to the busy downtown and Broadway areas.