General Phoenix Metro Discussion Thread

[phxjack]

It's a shame the new development that's happening in Phoenix is not more focused on sustainability. Here is a great NYT article discussing architectural solutions to mitigate the heat in Dubai. Think narrow alleyways for shade, building design to improve the flow of air, and maximize opportunities for shade.

Phoenix should be the test city for new and innovative ways to coexist with heat as more and more cities around the world continue to heat up. Culdesac seems to be on the right track!

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/09/climate/climate-change-architecture-emirates.html

[MMDelon]

Phoenix has seen tremendous growth in it's downtown corridor over the last ten years but I don't see Phoenix ever having a 700' to 800' foot skyscraper and I don't think that's a bad thing at all. I think Phoenix should try to incorporate more shade downtown and continue the success of Roosevelt Row. Hopefully with the added retail in Central Station and The Sol Modern, more people will shop in downtown Phoenix.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by BA744PHX

Correct, however you can put more clothes on to keep you warm at 20 degrees, however there is only so much you can take off before it’s indecent exposure.

Uncovering yourself in the sun is dangerous. Argument failure.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by phxjack

It's a shame the new development that's happening in Phoenix is not more focused on sustainability. Here is a great NYT article discussing architectural solutions to mitigate the heat in Dubai. Think narrow alleyways for shade, building design to improve the flow of air, and maximize opportunities for shade.

Phoenix should be the test city for new and innovative ways to coexist with heat as more and more cities around the world continue to heat up. Culdesac seems to be on the right track!

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/09/climate/climate-change-architecture-emirates.html

LMAO I was just in Duabi last year. Using that place as a model for "sustainability" is a joke.

it makes our sprawl look well planned.

[soled]

Originally Posted by Obadno

To be fair, people walk to work when its 20 degrees. They can when its 110

I'm not sure what that has to do with my singularly pointing out that it's gotten significantly hotter here the last few years.

But on the note of dealing with the heat; after having worked construction for 9 years in the Valley, then fighting fire for over 33 years in Phoenix, I have some above average experience with the heat here.

Aside from my personal experiences of working in this heat, the heat-related calls I responded to significantly rose over the last half of my career. I accept that the hotter it gets, a lower percentage of people like me will able to manage in this heat.

[phxjack]

Originally Posted by Obadno

LMAO I was just in Duabi last year. Using that place as a model for "sustainability" is a joke.

it makes our sprawl look well planned.

I'm not saying Dubai is a model for sustainability at all rather that there are examples of sustainable architecture there. Other than the University of Arizona Bio buildings I don't see any examples of sustainable/ LEED certifications.

[PHX31]

This was interesting. Skip to 11:20.

https://youtu.be/ufDz5ewFOzw?si=ebjMIbZXB_rMlUW6

I particularly liked the northern downtown residential homes starting at about 12:45.

[Ttown5]

Originally Posted by phxjack

I'm not saying Dubai is a model for sustainability at all rather that there are examples of sustainable architecture there. Other than the University of Arizona Bio buildings I don't see any examples of sustainable/ LEED certifications.

There are a plethora of buildings that are LEED certified in the greater phoenix area, I am not sure if there is a list, but I know of at least 3 or 4 off the top of my head right now. Just because the building isn't super tall doesn't mean that there isn't sustainable practices being implemented in Arizona. Would it be nice if new high-rises downtown focused more on it? Yes. But that doesn't mean there aren't a lot of them around.

[BA744PHX]

Originally Posted by Obadno

Uncovering yourself in the sun is dangerous. Argument failure.

No way, who knew… just wow, shocking…

[combusean]

Originally Posted by MMDelon

Phoenix has seen tremendous growth in it's downtown corridor over the last ten years but I don't see Phoenix ever having a 700' to 800' foot skyscraper and I don't think that's a bad thing at all. I think Phoenix should try to incorporate more shade downtown and continue the success of Roosevelt Row. Hopefully with the added retail in Central Station and The Sol Modern, more people will shop in downtown Phoenix.

Midtown will definitely see a 700 footer in my lifetime, but I'm disappointed at the growth it didn't get this cycle. Somebody with the money to do something that big wouldn't bat an eye at demolishing one of the low or midrise outdated office buildings on Central Ave or work it into the Park Central plans.

[phxjack]

Originally Posted by Ttown5

There are a plethora of buildings that are LEED certified in the greater phoenix area, I am not sure if there is a list, but I know of at least 3 or 4 off the top of my head right now. Just because the building isn't super tall doesn't mean that there isn't sustainable practices being implemented in Arizona. Would it be nice if new high-rises downtown focused more on it? Yes. But that doesn't mean there aren't a lot of them around.

I'm originally from DC area and there were a much higher percentage of LEED certified buildings. It seems almost every single new building announcement in the past 10 years in DC area has been LEED. For Phoenix, a city that is #1 in annual temperature and relies heavily on a water source hundreds of miles away I would expect it to be leading the way in this regard.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by combusean

Midtown will definitely see a 700 footer in my lifetime, but I'm disappointed at the growth it didn't get this cycle. Somebody with the money to do something that big wouldn't bat an eye at demolishing one of the low or midrise outdated office buildings on Central Ave or work it into the Park Central plans.

Yeah, I think we would could have seen a tall proposal by now if COVID hadn't happened. But it will happen sooner than later. I'm really hoping they bring back the tower proposal for the northwest corner of Thomas and Central. That would be a great spot for something big.

[AZSunHiker]

It's a shame the new development that's happening in Phoenix is not more focused on sustainability. Here is a great NYT article discussing architectural solutions to mitigate the heat in Dubai. Think narrow alleyways for shade, building design to improve the flow of air, and maximize opportunities for shade.

Phoenix should be the test city for new and innovative ways to coexist with heat as more and more cities around the world continue to heat up. Culdesac seems to be on the right track!

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/09/c...-emirates.html

Does any know if ASU Tempe campus has designed buildings in a manner to enable breezes? While walking around there in high heat the other day it seemed to be noticeably cooler with more wind than surrounding neighborhoods.

[OcotilloTea]

Originally Posted by AZSunHiker

Does any know if ASU Tempe campus has designed buildings in a manner to enable breezes? While walking around there in high heat the other day it seemed to be noticeably cooler with more wind than surrounding neighborhoods.

I know ASU has a number of newer buildings that do just this. I think that ISBT7 is the best example of this ( https://cfo.asu.edu/ISTB7 ), with large outdoor areas in the interior that are self shaded by the shape of the building, with greenery built in to also benefit and grow in the shade.

Tooker House and the newest building they built also have this (ASU tempe new academic building) . But many examples across the campuses do this.


I think that Culdesac Tempe is absolutely how metro Phx should be building out. Honestly I think with the new South Central light rail they could build a fantastic new neighborhood in the culdesac style in the large open area next to the rio salado audubon society. Its a huge parcel that I am sure will be in high demand for redevelopment once the new lightrail line is open (https://maps.app.goo.gl/WQrQUbKRqzax58pDA)

[PHX31]

Originally Posted by OcotilloTea

I think that Culdesac Tempe is absolutely how metro Phx should be building out. Honestly I think with the new South Central light rail they could build a fantastic new neighborhood in the culdesac style in the large open area next to the rio salado audubon society. Its a huge parcel that I am sure will be in high demand for redevelopment once the new lightrail line is open (https://maps.app.goo.gl/WQrQUbKRqzax58pDA)

Some entity just bought that land for $145 million in 2022. Unsure what the plan might be now, but it sounds like it was previously being planned for light industrial. It's a pretty gritty industrial area, but I'd imagine the City would love for it to be transformed considering the light rail and river.

https://azbex.com/commercial-real-estate/commercial-real-estate-news-04-12-22/

[highnoon]

I do know that they are building some sort of farmers market/ whole food shopping center and business park on one of the empty parcels of land south of the rio salado, they also mentioned that they will be building trails and make it more walking oriented, the project is called Arizona Fresh and they are touting it as an Agri-Food innovation center, seems really exiting and it will be a short walk from the future light rail extension into south phoenix

[highnoon]

Oh and on top of that they are going to be building a pedestrian bridge that crosses the river and the city will be paving concrete paths lined with solar powered lights that will stretch from central ave to 40th, there are 3 different bridge designs , personally convergence is my fav, the project wont be done until 2029, but thats perfect for me
https://www.phoenix.gov/streets/riosaladobridge

[locolife]

Originally Posted by phxjack

I'm originally from DC area and there were a much higher percentage of LEED certified buildings. It seems almost every single new building announcement in the past 10 years in DC area has been LEED. For Phoenix, a city that is #1 in annual temperature and relies heavily on a water source hundreds of miles away I would expect it to be leading the way in this regard.

I think Phoenix should do more but DC literally requires every non-residential building to be Leed Certified, so it’s not very comparable. Since federal government dominates there it’s probably less of a deterrent to new development than it may be elsewhere.

But I’m personally all for it, although I don’t see a similar mandate passing here any time soon.

https://doee.dc.gov/publication/green-building-act-2006

[KEVINphx]

Originally Posted by soled

I'm not sure what that has to do with my singularly pointing out that it's gotten significantly hotter here the last few years.

But on the note of dealing with the heat; after having worked construction for 9 years in the Valley, then fighting fire for over 33 years in Phoenix, I have some above average experience with the heat here.

Aside from my personal experiences of working in this heat, the heat-related calls I responded to significantly rose over the last half of my career. I accept that the hotter it gets, a lower percentage of people like me will able to manage in this heat.

Some people just gotta be correct . . . lol - the matter of "what is hot" is slightly subjective, but only slightly. I was born here in 1985 and lived here all my life and I'm not a desk jockey - I work in construction and summer is the busiest time of the year. It is miserable. I don't really think it's a subjective matter either - over 645 people DIED from the heat here last summer. 425 DIED in 2022. It is not an anomaly - but yes 2023 was a "record" we averaged 97 degrees overall - this summer we are expected to "average" 100. That is including every "low" temperature as well.

This historical averages for locals who've been here forever is no longer relevant. Summer even when I was a child in the '90s was much rainier and did NOT have overnight lows that were what they are today.

To give an idea of comparison, deaths in Minneapolis in winter (older years but gives you an idea) 2019: 62, 2018:52, 2017: 52.

The heat is a killer and a pedestrian nightmare - I'm sure as 🞵🞵🞵🞵 not a lightweight and I know I'm not in the minority. Besides, there is really only so much the city can do to truly mitigate the heat, bottom line is 110+ with nights only going into the low to mid 90s is just NOT conducive to pedestrian activity aside from very short journeys.

[azcats]

Originally Posted by KEVINphx

Some people just gotta be correct . . . lol - the matter of "what is hot" is slightly subjective, but only slightly. I was born here in 1985 and lived here all my life and I'm not a desk jockey - I work in construction and summer is the busiest time of the year. It is miserable. I don't really think it's a subjective matter either - over 645 people DIED from the heat here last summer. 425 DIED in 2022. It is not an anomaly - but yes 2023 was a "record" we averaged 97 degrees overall - this summer we are expected to "average" 100. That is including every "low" temperature as well.

This historical averages for locals who've been here forever is no longer relevant. Summer even when I was a child in the '90s was much rainier and did NOT have overnight lows that were what they are today.

To give an idea of comparison, deaths in Minneapolis in winter (older years but gives you an idea) 2019: 62, 2018:52, 2017: 52.

The heat is a killer and a pedestrian nightmare - I'm sure as 🞵🞵🞵🞵 not a lightweight and I know I'm not in the minority. Besides, there is really only so much the city can do to truly mitigate the heat, bottom line is 110+ with nights only going into the low to mid 90s is just NOT conducive to pedestrian activity aside from very short journeys.

You win...hands down. No argument from me. I hate the summer heat - that's why I live 100 miles north at 5,700 feet. However, when I was a young teenager - growing up in the Phoenix area - I hated when people would move to Phoenix and complain how things were better back east. My parents were the exception: They moved to Phoenix from Boston - and never looked back. There is also a saying, "When in Rome...do as the Romans do." In those days, most of the transplants were from the mid-west or, the east coast. Not too much complaining about the summers from them - they hated the hot humid summers back there and especially, the bitter cold winters - with snow and ice. Let's see how the refugees from coastal California that are swamping Phoenix will fare.

Before there was A/C ...and before swamp cooling...very few people lived in Phoenix in the summer time. Women and children were sent out of town to either California or, up to the high country. Men would sleep in wet sheets out on sleeping porches - or, just outside.

My biggest concern - is too many people now. Arizona has grown so - particularly Phoenix. Coastal California is gone - has been for a long time.