Metro Vancouver Transit Discussion II

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by Mac Write

Hadn't checked there in a few days. So about 6 weeks behind unless we get more then 1/month. Hopefully 6-7 trains will be in revenue service by end of year as Translink as stated (not the number of trains though)

Also the car number was 6043 but not sure if they are always received in sequential order or not.

The ones that arrived in 2023 included 6025, 6024, 6023, 6022, 6011

Actually I guess this delivery is part of the "second set" of Mark V cars going by the detailed car number breakdown on that forums Wiki page.

[dpogue]

The second train will be cars 6031-6042-6043-6044-6045.

The first train has been doing overnight testing around different parts of the system. It's been seen parked in the Coquitlam yard several times, and spotted driving around the Edmonds yard during the day.

Each new train usually has a testing and commissioning process lasting several months, with the first train taking longer because they want to sort out any potential issues. I don't think that first train can go into revenue service until they've finished all the station upgrades though.

[jollyburger]

This was the report from last month.

Testing and commissioning of Train 1 continued in Q1. This includes static and dynamic testing in our OMC1 maintenance yard and on the system during non-revenue hours. Training is underway for Field Operations and Rolling Stock staff ahead of the first Mark V train entering service in late Q4.

Train 2 continues its testing regime in Kingston with its 20,000 km endurance testing scheduled for May and June prior to being shipped to our Burnaby maintenance facility near the end of Q3. Teams continue to prioritize adequate track time to successfully test and commission Mark V trains without compromising service delivery and on-time performance.

https://www.translink.ca/-/media/transli...-board-meeting-package---for-posting.pdf

[Tvisforme]

Originally Posted by jollyburger

Not sure if it's against the rules to link to other forums but someone just posted photos of one car en route from Calgary and he said there were two of them.

Originally Posted by Mac Write

Hadn't checked there in a few days. So about 6 weeks behind unless we get more then 1/month. Hopefully 6-7 trains will be in revenue service by end of year as Translink as stated (not the number of trains though)

Which forum, if you don't mind? I'm always interested in new sources. If you're not comfortable posting it publicly a PM would be great.

[madog222]

Originally Posted by Tvisforme

Which forum, if you don't mind? I'm always interested in new sources. If you're not comfortable posting it publicly a PM would be great.

CPTDB https://cptdb.ca/topic/19461-2021-2030-s...tom-mark-v-new-omc4-construction/page/8/

[madog222]

Originally Posted by dpogue

I don't think that first train can go into revenue service until they've finished all the station upgrades though.

I think they will enter service before all the station modifications are complete. Perhaps they will have the train poke out from the station at one end leaving the cross track walkway at the other end clear. This would mean one or two sets of doors won't operate.

As of a year ago Translink was planning for the Mark V trains to cover 3 million km this year and 17 million km in 2025.


Image from a publicly available Translink document.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by chowhou

I still don't understand why people get so emotional about Ken Sim. It's almost "KSDS" (Ken Sim Derangement Syndrome) at this point.

It is. People just foaming at the mouth at a partisan level. Somehow any hint of Sim leaning one way is proof he's going to ruin the city. Meanwhile Boyle and even Stewart got miles of praise and understanding when they literally get nothing actually done.

[dpogue]

Originally Posted by madog222

I think they will enter service before all the station modifications are complete. Perhaps they will have the train poke out from the station at one end leaving the cross track walkway at the other end clear. This would mean one or two sets of doors won't operate.

As of a year ago Translink was planning for the Mark V trains to cover 3 million km this year and 17 million km in 2025.

I don't think they can run the trains in revenue service before the station modifications are complete, because the trains will trip track intrusion sensors at the ends of the platforms if those have not been moved. They also require staff to be able to access the full length of the train and the track area ahead/behind the train in case of emergencies.

[jollyburger]

Originally Posted by dpogue

I don't think they can run the trains in revenue service before the station modifications are complete, because the trains will trip track intrusion sensors at the ends of the platforms if those have not been moved. They also require staff to be able to access the full length of the train and the track area ahead/behind the train in case of emergencies.

These are the changes they mentioned for the Mark V trains

SkyTrain station infrastructure will undergo updates needed to accommodate longer trains and more passengers. These include:

adding gap fillers between trains and station platforms to improve accessibility for customers with wheelchairs and mobility devices,

relocating staff walkways along the tracks,

relocating emergency exit stairs and increasing capacity,

relocating track intrusion monitoring system hardware, and

adding guideway signage for manual train operations.

All Expo and Millennium Line stations will receive one or more of these upgrades as needed and will be managed in priority sequence, with construction expected to be completed by 2026. Most of this work will not impact transit service or access; however, some interruptions and intermittent nighttime/ weekend work can be expected.

https://www.translink.ca/plans-and-proje...expansion-program/infastructure-upgrades

[madog222]

Originally Posted by dpogue

I don't think they can run the trains in revenue service before the station modifications are complete, because the trains will trip track intrusion sensors at the ends of the platforms if those have not been moved. They also require staff to be able to access the full length of the train and the track area ahead/behind the train in case of emergencies.

I wasn't considering the track intrusion system, good point.

[mcj]

Just passed by OMC 2 and they're unloading the second Mark V train.

[Mac Write]

There's #2. I wonder when #3 arrives, hopefully late August #4 late September #5 late October, then they enter service in November.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Changing City

More appropriate for discussion on the Transit thread.

You must have already seen the operational financial crisis that's looming at Translink. Although ridership is over 90% of pre pandemic levels, fare revenue hasn't recovered as well because more riders are paying for individual trips rather than buying transit passes, (presumably because they're working at home some of the time). Gas tax revenue is also down as EVs become ever more popular, and some workers who drive an ICE vehicle to work are also working from home some of the time. The Province propped up the finances on a temporary basis, but that runs out next year. And there's little certainty of any federal funding, even for future investment, and certainly not for operating expenses.

There wouldn't seem to be any easy ways of increasing revenue to fund transit which won't cause a significant backlash, or be politically unacceptable. (Or totally self defeating, like raising fares enough to make a difference to the revenue shortfall, which just means some riders stop using transit.)

Replying to this from another thread. A few things here:

1. Wouldn't individual fares work out better financially for Translink compared to passes?

2. Agree on EVs and more fuel efficient vehicles, and possibly less driving.

3. Note that fares have not increased in line with inflation either.

Easy but unpopular solution:
Regional Sales tax of 0.5% for transit, eliminate everything else. IMO transit funding tied to economic activity should align well for the foreseeable future.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by WarrenC12

Replying to this from another thread. A few things here:

1. Wouldn't individual fares work out better financially for Translink compared to passes?

2. Agree on EVs and more fuel efficient vehicles, and possibly less driving.

3. Note that fares have not increased in line with inflation either.

Easy but unpopular solution:
Regional Sales tax of 0.5% for transit, eliminate everything else. IMO transit funding tied to economic activity should align well for the foreseeable future.

Thanks for moving this here.

I'm just quoting TransLink, who said they were losing revenue from fewer pass holders and more individual fares. I guess pass holders tend to leave 'money on the card' that isn't used for trips?

The 2.3% annual fare increase limit through on 1 July in the past few years was a stipulation in exchange for TransLink receiving major emergency operating subsidies from the federal and provincial governments during the peak of the pandemic. Those funds have dried up now, and I assume the planned 4% increase will happen next July.

If a 0.5% sales tax would raise enough money, it seems like a good mechanism to fund transit, and be more broadly spread across the entire population, rather than certain groups. It would be more regressive than the current funding sources though.

[dpogue]

Originally Posted by Changing City

I'm just quoting TransLink, who said they were losing revenue from fewer pass holders and more individual fares. I guess pass holders tend to leave 'money on the card' that isn't used for trips?

I seem to recall from my years of having monthly passes that it's only really "worth it" if you take 2 trips a day for 20+ days of the month. Otherwise it ends up being cheaper to pay as you go.

My guess is that historically there were lots of people who got monthly passes even if they didn't take enough trips to completely justify it, solely for the convenience factor, but with hybrid work it no longer makes sense financially for them to do that.

[RedArbutus]

Originally Posted by dpogue

I seem to recall from my years of having monthly passes that it's only really "worth it" if you take 2 trips a day for 20+ days of the month. Otherwise it ends up being cheaper to pay as you go.

My guess is that historically there were lots of people who got monthly passes even if they didn't take enough trips to completely justify it, solely for the convenience factor, but with hybrid work it no longer makes sense financially for them to do that.

Yeah, that was the model for the longest time. They weren't massive savings: if you went into the office 5 days a week, round trip (as you said, about 20 days or so), you'd save like 2 days or so worth of stored credit compared to if you had paid the single fare every trip. So for anyone who's stayed hybrid - and there are a lot of them still out there, though sadly I am not one of them - the math just doesn't check out. That's a non-negligible amount of revenue, I think.

[Migrant_Coconut]

Originally Posted by Changing City

If a 0.5% sales tax would raise enough money, it seems like a good mechanism to fund transit, and be more broadly spread across the entire population, rather than certain groups. It would be more regressive than the current funding sources though.

Didn't Christy Clark already make that one untouchable in 2015?

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by Migrant_Coconut

Didn't Christy Clark already make that one untouchable in 2015?

Probably, but she wasn't too popular either.

HST, bridge tolls, transit sales taxes. All good ideas soured for political reasons.

[Mac Write]

Would this idea work?
you just put auto load on your compass card and then
•do more trips then a day pass and only pay for the day pass
•Monthly only pay monthly if your trips are more then 20 round trips a month?

[ilikeredheads]

Originally Posted by RedArbutus

Yeah, that was the model for the longest time. They weren't massive savings: if you went into the office 5 days a week, round trip (as you said, about 20 days or so), you'd save like 2 days or so worth of stored credit compared to if you had paid the single fare every trip. So for anyone who's stayed hybrid - and there are a lot of them still out there, though sadly I am not one of them - the math just doesn't check out. That's a non-negligible amount of revenue, I think.

no, you'd actually lose money if you bought a month pass.

2 trips per day on 1 zone travel for 20 days is $104.
1 zone month pass is $107.3.

Month pass is only worth it if you also take transit on weekends or you get subsidized.

And if your work hours are not standard 9-5, you'd lose more money with month pass. In my previous job it was a 2 zone ticket to get to work but I get off work after 630, so there was no reason for me to get 2 zone month pass.