Statistics Canada Reports II

[MolsonExport]

I was just in Italy (my third time in that splendid country).

As others have said, the gap between the North and the South is a chasm, and one that seems to be growing. Naples is an incredibly interesting city, but the poverty is absolutely grinding and on such a massive scale...no Canadian city comes even remotely close. Milano is very prosperous, but it and other northern Italian cities cannot pull the South out of what seems to be permanent stagnation. The growth of the debt to GDP ratio of Italy has veered into an level that is unsustainable. Canada is in a far, far better position than Italy, in almost every measure (bar spectacular history/cultural attractions, and really good seafood), despite our excessive population growth.

[saffronleaf]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

I was just in Italy (my third time in that splendid country).

As others have said, the gap between the North and the South is a chasm, and one that seems to be growing. Naples is an incredibly interesting city, but the poverty is absolutely grinding and on such a massive scale...no Canadian city comes even remotely close. Milano is very prosperous, but it and other northern Italian cities cannot pull the South out of what seems to be permanent stagnation. The growth of the debt to GDP ratio of Italy has veered into an level that is unsustainable. Canada is in a far, far better position than Italy, in almost every measure (bar spectacular history/cultural attractions, and really good seafood), despite our excessive population growth.

went to southern italy recently and it kind of doesn't feel like a developed country. southern italy and canada are in different leagues.

[DLLB]

Originally Posted by BlackDog204

This is false. Manitoba is attracting more immigrants than Saskatchewan, in both real numbers, and per-capita rates. Not by a landslide, but enough to see Manitoba increase it's lead in population compared to Saskatchewan in the last 2-3 years.

I have been tracking the population clock since July 2018.
At that time MB was 1,355,116 and SK was 1,175,304 so SK was 86.7% of MB
On Jul 1/24 MB was 1,497,218 and SK was 1,236,352 so SK was 82.8% of MB

Of note, QC has fallen from ..... 22.79% of Canada to 21.97% of Canada in that time frame.
Maritimes about the same ......... 6.45% ................... 6.43%
Ontario up from ..................... 38.82% .................. 39.04%
The West up from .................. 31.61% .................. 32.23%
North the same ........................ .33% ...................... .33%

[canarob]

Originally Posted by DLLB

I have been tracking the population clock since July 2018.
At that time MB was 1,355,116 and SK was 1,175,304 so SK was 86.7% of MB
On Jul 1/24 MB was 1,497,218 and SK was 1,236,352 so SK was 82.8% of MB

Of note, QC has fallen from ..... 22.79% of Canada to 21.97% of Canada in that time frame.
Maritimes about the same ......... 6.45% ................... 6.43%
Ontario up from ..................... 38.82% .................. 39.04%
The West up from .................. 31.61% .................. 32.23%
North the same ........................ .33% ...................... .33%

You have to wonder if there's a possible future where Ontario gets to 45-50% at mostly Quebec's expense? This would be assuming QC is successful in limiting growth and all of Ontario's many CMAs/CAs continue to see extraordinary growth.

[dennis]

I think the reason Manitoba is attracting so many immigrants is because of it’s aggressive provincial nominee program.

[isaidso]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Canada is in a far, far better position than Italy, in almost every measure (bar spectacular history/cultural attractions, and really good seafood), despite our excessive population growth.

Canada has fantastic seafood but only if you live in Atlantic Canada/BC. Despite sitting on Great Lakes, the seafood in Ontario is unremarkable. I was told its because the vast majority of it is imported from Asia despite fresh fish right on its doorstep.

[north 42]

The local fish from the Great Lakes is absolutely delicious and often can be freshly caught that same day, especially Walleye and Yellow Perch. It’s not seafood, they’re lake fish, but still just as enjoyable.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by isaidso

Canada has fantastic seafood but only if you live in Atlantic Canada/BC. Despite sitting on Great Lakes, the seafood in Ontario is unremarkable. I was told its because the vast majority of it is imported from Asia despite fresh fish right on its doorstep.

Do you really think that the seafood in some random town in the Maritimes is more varied and of higher quality than what you can find in Toronto, a world city of millions?

[saucylito]

Originally Posted by dennis

I think the reason Manitoba is attracting so many immigrants is because of it’s aggressive provincial nominee program.

Interesting, so every province in Canada has it's own immigration system within the country of Canada, as far as how many people can immigrate at any one time maybe, I'll do some more research then.

Saskatchewan must have a similar aggressive provincial nomination system.

Just a quick look at some immigration stats through the last few years or so,

In 2017, Manitoba had 14,700 immigrants and Saskatchewan had 14,680. I would call that similar numbers but maybe i'm completely out to lunch.

https://www.canada.ca/en/immigration...18/report.html


In 2019/2020 Manitoba had 14,789 and Saskatchewan had 13,374 which is maybe seen as a whole dramatic level of difference, I just don't know in the Canadian context.

https://statisticsanddata.org/data/i...and-territory/


And last year in 2023, Manitoba had 25,591 immigrants and Saskatchewan had only slightly more at 26,124, which is a bit of a jump for both provinces, after covid probably, to be sure.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...nts-in-canada/


I'm sort of considering moving to Canada, depending on how the American elections go in the Fall. But I don't want to move somewhere too expensive, to somewhere I don't know the language, or to somewhere too remote like TheYukon or Atlantic, too far from home. I'm just putting out feelers for now.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Do you really think that the seafood in some random town in the Maritimes is more varied and of higher quality than what you can find in Toronto, a world city of millions?

Probably, I mean the ocean is right there, don't have to fly anything in...

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Do you really think that the seafood in some random town in the Maritimes is more varied and of higher quality than what you can find in Toronto, a world city of millions?

For the rest of Ontario, unequivocally yes. Food in Ontario outside of the GTA is generally very bland and forgettable, and seafood is not Ontario's forte. Even in the yuppy hotbeds of PEC and Niagara, it's a bit overrated.

GTA is more a mixed bag. Maritimes has fresher seafood and better Western-style cooking techniques (especially the French inspired cuisine), but Toronto offers unique East Asian and Italian ethnic takes on certain seafood dishes that you can't get in the Maritimes.

Vancouver takes the cake for best all-round seafood cuisine.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

Maritimes has fresher seafood and better Western-style cooking techniques (especially the French inspired cuisine), but Toronto offers unique East Asian ethnic takes on certain seafood dishes that you can't get in the Maritimes.

I go to Toronto a lot and I've heard some Torontonians insist the quality of the seafood is the same there because it's flown in, but in practice I've never actually had fresh seafood there as good as the best stuff I've had on both coasts (with the best food by coast depending on the specific item). I'm talking about simple things like mussels or oysters. The best mussel I've had in NS is light years ahead of the best I had in ON or in BC for that matter. BC has better salmon, spot prawns, etc. You don't need to go to fancy restaurants to get these items.

For Asian style preparation options it's of course no contest but for seafood I think the quality is more important.

[Nouvellecosse]

Originally Posted by saucylito

I'm sort of considering moving to Canada, depending on how the American elections go in the Fall. But I don't want to move somewhere too expensive, to somewhere I don't know the language, or to somewhere too remote like TheYukon or Atlantic, too far from home. I'm just putting out feelers for now.

Hmm...

Population of 45k on 186k sq miles vs population 2.4 million on 188k sq miles. Not sure how something can be simultaneously like both things in terms of remoteness.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

For the rest of Ontario, unequivocally yes. Food in Ontario outside of the GTA is generally very bland and forgettable, and seafood is not Ontario's forte. Even in the yuppy hotbeds of PEC and Niagara, it's a bit overrated.

Maybe. Agree that the food scene in the GTA is better than anywhere else in Ontario that I've encountered, across all categories, and this applies to seafood simply because Ontario is not known for seafood.

GTA is more a mixed bag. Maritimes has fresher seafood and better Western-style cooking techniques (especially the French inspired cuisine),

What is a "Western-style" technique for cooking seafood? Ceviche? Fish Crudo? Gefilte fish? Gravalax? Fish tacos?

I would wager that Toronto has more restaurants serving the vast array of techniques for preparing seafood hailing from the "Western world" (could be anywhere from Chile to Israel) than any city in the Maritimes, and many of those restaurants are good at what they do.

As an anecdote, a few years ago when I was in Lisbon I went to Ramiros, which is a bit of a local institution, if a bit touristy, and it specializes in obscure Portuguese bivalves. I remember ordering the raw goose barancles, and telling my wife "we might as well load up on stuff like this, because we can't eat it anywhere else." A few months later I went to Osler Fish market in the Junction to buy something like Red Snapper for a dinner I was making and what do I see, live, in the tank? Goose barnacles!

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

What is a "Western-style" technique for cooking seafood? Ceviche? Fish Crudo? Gefilte fish? Gravalax? Fish tacos?

I think what he meant by "western" was more traditional cuisine styles for us (being westerners), as opposed to more exotic preparations such as those from Asia.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by someone123

I go to Toronto a lot and I've heard some Torontonians insist the quality of the seafood is the same there because it's flown in, but in practice I've never actually had fresh seafood there as good as the best stuff I've had on both coasts (with the best food by coast depending on the specific item). I'm talking about simple things like mussels or oysters. The best mussel I've had in NS is light years ahead of the best I had in ON or in BC for that matter. BC has better salmon, spot prawns, etc. You don't need to go to fancy restaurants to get these items.

Agreed that freshness matters significantly, especially for mussels and oysters. The equivalent in Moncton, Halifax or Percé always tastes better than what's served in Toronto. It's like having high-end sashimi in Shanghai versus Tokyo, Shanghai lacks the freshness that you can taste straight out of the Tokyo fish markets.

For Asian style preparation options it's of course no contest but for seafood I think the quality is more important.

Dishes like Lobster Mountain are unique to Toronto's food scene in Canada, which often involves cooking live large 15-20lb lobsters that isn't common in Maritime restaurants (Me and SO haven't come across any restos in the Maritimes actually), even though the exclusive source of the lobsters is Nova Scotia and New Brunswick.

[P'tit Renard]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

Maybe. Agree that the food scene in the GTA is better than anywhere else in Ontario that I've encountered, across all categories, and this applies to seafood simply because Ontario is not known for seafood.

The dropoff between GTA and the rest of Ontario is so significant they might as well be two separate provinces. In Quebec and the Maritimes, IMO the level of culinary cuisine is much more consistent and even between the urban and rural areas.

It's even noticable at the border, we've had much better culinary experiences in Gatineau than Ottawa.

What is a "Western-style" technique for cooking seafood? Ceviche? Fish Crudo? Gefilte fish? Gravalax? Fish tacos?

I would wager that Toronto has more restaurants serving the vast array of techniques for preparing seafood hailing from the "Western world" (could be anywhere from Chile to Israel) than any city in the Maritimes, and many of those restaurants are good at what they do.

Maybe Toronto in aggregate has more unique seafood preparation techniques, just because of the size of the restaurant market here. But for the most popular western culinary techniques of preparing seafood, the Maritimes does it better hands down. It's also much easier to find restaurants specialising in seafood than Toronto, and Poissonneries (equivalent to Diana's Seafood) are much more common out there.

[rbt]

Originally Posted by someone123

I go to Toronto a lot and I've heard some Torontonians insist the quality of the seafood is the same there because it's flown in, but in practice I've never actually had fresh seafood there as good as the best stuff I've had on both coasts (with the best food by coast depending on the specific item). I'm talking about simple things like mussels or oysters. The best mussel I've had in NS is light years ahead of the best I had in ON or in BC for that matter. BC has better salmon, spot prawns, etc. You don't need to go to fancy restaurants to get these items.

It depends on the specific product. If flash freezing is performed by the trawler for parasite control, and all large-scale fish trawlers have onboard refrigeration (vessels may be at sea for a week or more), then what you get from that supplier will be the same whether delivered to Toronto or purchased directly from them on the dock. It's frozen within a couple hours of being removed from the water, and later thawed for retail (then portioned and repacked), restaurant, or at home.

There are some small scale operations that provide same-day catch for a premium price which has not been frozen. This will only be available on the coasts, and likely only at a dedicated fish monger (not a general purpose grocery). Nearly everything suitable for sushi in Canada has been flash frozen, whether on a coast or inland.

Shellfish, however, is a completely different. When not frozen, this is often transported live and time between catch and table matters quite a bit due to terrible living conditions during transport/retail.

[someone123]

Originally Posted by rbt

It depends on the specific product. If flash freezing is performed by the trawler for parasite control, and all large-scale fish trawlers have onboard refrigeration (vessels may be at sea for a week or more), then what you get from that supplier will be the same whether delivered to Toronto or purchased directly from them on the dock. It's frozen within a couple hours of being removed from the water, and later thawed for retail (then portioned and repacked), restaurant, or at home.

There are some small scale operations that provide same-day catch for a premium price which has not been frozen. This will only be available on the coasts, and likely only at a dedicated fish monger (not a general purpose grocery).

Yeah, I am a few minutes away from people selling this stuff and listening to seagulls as I type this.

There are some products around here that as you say are flash frozen so I doubt there's much difference whether you buy that in Vancouver or Toronto. But sometimes you can get those items fresh. Even some items for sale by fishermen are already frozen.

I wonder if Lobster Mountain is really so great. I've never had 15-20 pound lobster but those will tend to be older lobsters. I like lobster but feel like it is one of those somewhat overrated conspicuous consumption items like high-end steaks. Not bad but not necessarily above other options and value for dollar can be poor.

[Nashe]

Originally Posted by someone123

I wonder if Lobster Mountain is really so great. I've never had 15-20 pound lobster but those will tend to be older lobsters. I like lobster but feel like it is one of those somewhat overrated conspicuous consumption items like high-end steaks. Not bad but not necessarily above other options and value for dollar can be poor.

It's hotly debated, but general consensus is that smaller (<4lb) lobsters are generally are easier to cook, more tender and have more consistent flavor and texture. Those big "show" lobsters look impressive but are logistically complicated to prepare, though pound for pound they are cheaper (meat to shell ratio is better).