Federal Government & Politics II

[casper]

Originally Posted by Hecate

Really sad to see what happened. This could have been an amazing grassroots type process that would have benefited tons of small local producers. Instead we have massive corps running the show buying up all the little guys. Really a lesson in how not to start an industry.

Amazing how all those “experts” can fuck it up so bad.

I think the goal was to reduce the backlog of cases in the courts. Free up policing resources to do other things. Reduce the number of people that are negatively impacted for the rest of their lives from having a criminal record. Eliminating an underground economy is a strong positive for society.

It has accomplished all of that.

As for the supply chain. I don't know that industry well enough. The big "corporate" guys look to have run into financial problems across the industry. Perhaps they though the industry was going to be bigger than it is.

Around the city I see a lot of dispensaries in Victoria. Probably more than the number of liquor stores. I would not have expected that market to be that large but I guess it is. Alcohol sales are down, that is likely a good thing.

[casper]

Originally Posted by acottawa

One of the battery plants has stopped construction, apparently due to EV market decisions.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...ario-1.7276431

Reduced sales into China.

We need to get a handle on the export of raw materials from Canada. We should be forcing some degree of processing and manufacturing to stay in Canada.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

Very interesting.

It has not been discussed in the Canada section, but, there is an industrial park in Saint John (NB) where a major expansion is planned. There are very strong rumours that the expansion is for a large VW battery plant (not yet formally announced).

If this news is correct, this might put the kibosh on this plan as well.

This document explains the rationale for the industrial park expansion:

https://shapeyourcitysaintjohn.ca/sp...1pvfkJT1AATNHQ

Note this cryptic quote;

I was in Germany earlier in the summer and was surprised at how few electric cars I saw on the road, VW or otherwise. There are way more Teslas on Vancouver streets. Lots of diesels still clattering away in Deutschland though.

[acottawa]

There seems to be a disconnect between recent projections of EV sales and actual EV sales. Whether this is a blip or a trend is hard to tell.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by acottawa

There seems to be a disconnect between recent projections of EV sales and actual EV sales. Whether this is a blip or a trend is hard to tell.

I was at my Kia dealer on Saturday for service and asked the sales manager if the Sorento PHEV situation has improved any since I tried to get one in early 2022. He said they just delivered one the week prior to a guy who had ordered one shortly before I tried to order one. I really should have kept my name on the waiting list so I might get one by the time I'm ready to trade in the hybrid I got in Dec 22. Anyway, he said if I wanted an EV9, he could get me one of those in a couple weeks no problem. I said thanks but I'm not in the market for a $100k vehicle or reconfiguring my garage to fit it inside lol.

[acottawa]

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/poli...t-the-trudeau/

Pierre Poilievre makes his case for dismantling what the Trudeau government has built
John Ibbitson
Published 2 hours ago

A few paragraphs


But the heart of the interview was Mr. Poilievre outlining once again his plan to dismantle most of what the Liberal government built over the past nine years.

This goes far beyond scrapping the tax on carbon. It also means lifting caps on oil and gas production and loosening environmental regulations. "I want to sell our natural gas to wean Asia off of dirty coal," Mr. Poilievre told Ms. Gonzalez. If Environment Minister Steven Guilbeault enacted it, the Conservatives are likely to reverse it.

As most people know, Mr. Poilievre intends to defund the English-language television arm of the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation. He told viewers that he would scrap Bill C-11, which gave the CRTC the power to regulate the internet, Bill C-63, which requires online platforms to watch for and remove harmful content, and Bill C-18, which requires large tech companies to compensate news organizations when sharing their content.

Mr. Poilievre said he wanted to live in a country where people pay lower taxes and are burdened by fewer rules, but also where they "have freedom of speech, where they're judged on their merits, not their ethnicity, gender, sexuality, etc., where parents have ultimate authority over what their kids learn about sexuality and gender, where we go after criminals not after hunters and sport shooters, where we rebuild our military to have strong standing in the world."

The Liberal agenda of promoting diversity within the public service - gone. Protections for gender-diverse youth - gone. Efforts to combat discrimination in the criminal justice system - gone.

Pretty much every major element of the Liberal environmental, social and justice agenda - gone.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by casper;10254480[B

]I think the goal was to reduce the backlog of cases in the courts. [/B]Free up policing resources to do other things. Reduce the number of people that are negatively impacted for the rest of their lives from having a criminal record. Eliminating an underground economy is a strong positive for society.

It has accomplished all of that.

I don't have strong feelings either way about decriminalization, though I don't think that's really a good reason for it (highlighted) if indeed that was the case. Not really a good precedent for other stuff going forward either.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Build.It

Curious - what's the sentiment on here around legal cannabis now that we've had it for 5.5 years?

For, against, mixed?

Like a lot things that are a Trudeau disaster to some extent the devil is in the provincial details.

I was in Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa this week showing some visitors from Asia around who had come from New York, San Fran and LA. In Ontario it's totally out of control a retail blight and seems like a failure. In Quebec the well run rare provincial Canabis stores keep it under control. Their impression was Ontario was a liberal hellscape beyond even California. But were very impressed with Montreal. In fact it was Ford's anti government idealogy that made the rollout so irresponsible.

[MonctonRad]

Originally Posted by Build.It

Curious - what's the sentiment on here around legal cannabis now that we've had it for 5.5 years?

For, against, mixed?

I dislike cannabis. It carries much of the baggage of tobacco, plus some more. I am particularly alarmed by the effect it may have on the adolescent mind, and the risk of unlocking psychosis in susceptible individuals.

Why people feel this need to lose inhibition and control escapes me.

Having said all this however, decriminalization is probably a necessary evil. Lives can be ruined by a criminal conviction, and, cannabis as a drug does not really have an effect on criminal activity is a manner similar to harder drugs like fentanyl.

If cannabis has to be decriminalized, it should be sold in a heavily regulated environment and in provincially owned stores. This is generally the pattern in NB, although, there are several indigenously owned pot shops in downtown Moncton that the RCMP seem disinclined to do anything about.

[jonny24]

IMO it's way less harmful than alcohol in terms of addiction and damage to the body, and there's no real reason to have a government monopoly on it.

If loads of people wanted to take a crack at either growing it or selling it, and lots have failed, that's just how things are supposed to work. Jumping into a brand new market isn't going to work for everyone.

But it's great that something that was widely done anyway isn't illegal anymore.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by MonctonRad

I dislike cannabis. It carries much of the baggage of tobacco, plus some more. I am particularly alarmed by the effect it may have on the adolescent mind, and the risk of unlocking psychosis in susceptible individuals.

Why people feel this need to lose inhibition and control escapes me.

Having said all this however, decriminalization is probably a necessary evil. Lives can be ruined by a criminal conviction, and, cannabis as a drug does not really have an effect on criminal activity is a manner similar to harder drugs like fentanyl.

If cannabis has to be decriminalized, it should be sold in a heavily regulated environment and in provincially owned stores. This is generally the pattern in NB, although, there are several indigenously owned pot shops in downtown Moncton that the RCMP seem disinclined to do anything about.

This is kind of where I stand too. I don't want marijuana to be criminalized, but it is much more of a public health hazard than its supporters let on. Its use has increased significantly since it was legalized, with the percent of adolescents using marijuana daily doubling since 2011. Saying it's "not as detrimental as alcohol" is a red herring; pot is not good for you.

I don't know what we should have done, but maybe something like decriminalization, and then the government has a monopoly on legal sale and distribution of cannabis, with purchase limited to provincial residents and you have a maximum monthly quota after which you're cut off. Of course, some people would then go to the black market to buy more weed - but many other people who became more dependent might be able to self-regulate better.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Like a lot things that are a Trudeau disaster to some extent the devil is in the provincial details.

I was in Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa this week showing some visitors from Asia around who had come from New York, San Fran and LA. In Ontario it's totally out of control a retail blight and seems like a failure. In Quebec the well run rare provincial Canabis stores keep it under control. Their impression was Ontario was a liberal hellscape beyond even California. But were very impressed with Montreal. In fact it was Ford's anti government idealogy that made the rollout so irresponsible.

I agree that the Ontario free market solution was terrible, although I wonder if the Ford government reasoned that regulating cannabis - even a tiny bit - would seem contradictory to his long-time goal to privatize liquor sales, and that people would call him out for being a hypocrite. I don't think that would have really tarnished his reputation compared to the other stuff he's done, TBH.

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Like a lot things that are a Trudeau disaster to some extent the devil is in the provincial details.

I was in Toronto, Montreal and Ottawa this week showing some visitors from Asia around who had come from New York, San Fran and LA. In Ontario it's totally out of control a retail blight and seems like a failure. In Quebec the well run rare provincial Canabis stores keep it under control. Their impression was Ontario was a liberal hellscape beyond even California. But were very impressed with Montreal. In fact it was Ford's anti government idealogy that made the rollout so irresponsible.

Yes on this front Quebec's approach appears to have been a bit better. Quebec has also placed the minimum age for buying and possession at 21, which AFAIK is higher than any other province. (Of course this is a very relative thing if you live in Gatineau.)

Montreal in particular has always been a pretty loose city when it comes to drugs and a bunch of other things, but right now it seems like it's avoided the worst of the Pothead City feel you now get in some central parts of Ottawa and Toronto. Or at least, it's no worse than it was pre-decriminalization. Whereas in Ontario there is a noticeable difference.

[Build.It]

More and more I find myself rethinking whether it should be as legal as it is currently. I was all for it at first, however the longterm mental health effects are real, for certain individuals.

I haven't bothered to look it up, but how much of the tax revenue from cannabis sales has gone towards financing mental health and addiction treatment?

Making it illegal doesn't make sense - we have decades of experience showing that doesn't work, and is more dangerous. However IMO the majority (if not all) of tax revenue generated from cannabis sales should go towards mental health and addiction treatment.

[kool maudit]

I always supported the legalization of this plant, and I guess I continue to do so. It's such an old thing, just a blossom from the steppe that makes you feel a certain way. It seems ludicrous to get the police involved with their sidearms and their cells.

That said, the whole vibe of the thing has become stupid and sleazy and I don't really know what to do with that.

A tighter culture might consider a taboo here, or a dusting of stigma, but you know, it's Canada in 2024.

We barely know each other.

[niwell]

The only issue I really have in Ontario is the requirement for blanked out storefront windows at private retail locations. So you have a streetfront that looks less inviting / sleazy and kinda tacky. Some have put more effort into it having an actual storefront that sells snacks and the like with the legal retail space closed off behind. The original plan under the OLP with a handful of government retailers wouldn't have been great either as the proposed locations weren't exactly convenient.

That being said the proliferation of weed stores has slowed down significantly and quite a few have closed. Given that legal shops have to purchase through the government it was more of an illusion of free market than in reality and investment money dried up. The profit made by the OCS goes back into general revenue.

Of course there are still grey market shops that sell illegally. I know quite a few people prefer those (or kept their original dealers) as they sell stronger and more varied product. I'm fine with the very occasional weak edible before bed so the government product suits my needs fine. Anecdotally I don't know anyone who consumes more cannabis now then before it was officially legal as it's never been a particularly difficult thing to get. I presume some older people who wanted to get back into it have an easier time now though.

[kool maudit]

On the flipside: Sweden still has full-on, war on drugs, Nancy Reagan, 1985-tier marijuana policy and it just feels preposterous. It's just something people wind up having to make excuses for, like an incontinent kid brother. North Americans likely forget what this looks and feels like, especially when it's frozen in amber like this next to the other European countries.

The most conservative, small-town, never-even-seen-it people... even they have a vague sense that "this isn't how people are doing it anymore". It has to be a small core of committed activists.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by kool maudit

On the flipside: Sweden still has full-on, war on drugs, Nancy Reagan, 1985-tier marijuana policy and it just feels preposterous. It's just something people wind up having to make excuses for, like an incontinent kid brother. North Americans likely forget what this looks and feels like, especially when it's frozen in amber like this next to the other European countries.

The most conservative, small-town, never-even-seen-it people... even they have a vague sense that "this isn't how people are doing it anymore". It has to be a small core of committed activists.

The UK seems similar with pretty strict penalties, at least on paper. Seems especially ridiculous given the general culture and prolific use of harder drugs in that country amongst a wide range of the population. Hell, I know someone who was offered a bump of coke on a Thursday afternoon in a Nando's bathroom. Which even by standards here in some circles would be considered a bit much.

Not sure if it's changed but Denmark's situation with the open air drug market in Christiania was an interesting one.

[lio45]

There’s a logical concept in which you’re trying to have the sweet spot on something so you make it illegal knowing that it’ll reduce the amount of people doing it to only the most committed and hardcore.

The two examples I like to give:

1) illegal to photograph the Mona Lisa with a flash: even if someone occasionally does it it’s no big deal, you just don’t want millions of people doing it all year long because that would really fade and damage it. So a 99.9999% compliance rate is fine, it’s what matters.

2) illegal to make a U-turn at some intersection: some might do it, but again, they’ll only do it during the dead hours of the night with zero traffic, or when they have a clear window of opportunity, it won’t disrupt traffic. Again, compliance in most cases is sufficient and is the goal.

With pot, it’s kind of the same thing: you don’t want all your society’s teens on it, so I’m not sure that I didn’t prefer it illegal, all things considered.

[kool maudit]

Sweden has a lot of bad outcomes, as well, with high rates of addiction and overdose deaths. In 2016, speaking on the issue, then-Health Minister Gabriel Wikström broke through a little bit when he opened a conference by saying "vi har målat in oss i ett hörn och uppfattas som extremister" -- "we have painted ourselves into a corner and are perceived as extremists."

But we have a right-wing government now and it's just police, police, police. Very crudely handled policy area.