Federal Government & Politics II

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Yes but very much on the fringes. Most people have no idea most of these students are fake students here to work. They imagine they are enrolled in Masters of Engineering programs ready to fulfill a need Canada has and are paying $30k a year in much needed tuition dollars. These are of course the students we need to get back to.

The conversation is still very much immigrants aren't the reason for our housing crisis which I think was mostly true until fairly recently even if many were harping on about it well before that.

Even six months ago questioning basically any of these aspects of immigration was still very much a marginal, fringe view in Canada.

I've rarely seen views on an issue change so quickly - at least not in Canada as a whole.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

How is it "both parties" in the UK when Labour has not been in since 2010?

The British Tories tried to play a cute game where they ran on dog whistles while pushing strictly pro-business and pro-rich policies. It backfired on them once their base noticed and split with Reform UK. The same would happen here with PPC if the CPC doesn't actually reduce intake.

Good point. Both parties in the sense it continued under the Tories after Brexit and 2017 and 2019 elections were won on getting immigration under control as part of getting brexit done.

I don't know if the same would happen here. Probably not in exactly the same way but if we don't get some genuine populism I think you are right there will be a short fuse. If we get corporate tax cuts OAS and CCB cuts and see no progress on housing there will absolutely be a backlash of some sort for sure. Electorates are very impatient lately as well so they might not get two tersm of the above before getting turfed out. Especially if the Liberals get someone like Carney who can claim distance from both approaches. The recent history on changing government has assumed it was for at least two terms but in both cases a stronger opposition very much had a window to limit them to one term but blew it. (Dion in 2008 and Sheer in 2019 were both uniquely weak PM candidates)

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Even six months ago questioning basically any of these aspects of immigration was still very much a marginal, fringe view in Canada.

I've rarely seen views on an issue change so quickly - at least not in Canada as a whole.

It may be the single stupidest public policy decision in Canadian history.

[lio45]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

No wonder Trudeau's Liberals are misleading Canadians saying that they're going to cap International Student numbers, and yet in reality record student visas were issued YTD 2024:

Originally Posted by Acajack

People. The numbers are NOT going to be coming down. It's also almost certain they won't be coming down significantly under a CPC government. The course has been definitely set and is unlikely to be altered. There is too much at stake.

So, we should expect the yearly rate of Canadian impoverishment (thanks JT!) to actually accelerate?

On a related note, I resumed buying urban Canadian real estate. I have a couple transactions supposed to happen this summer (as soon as my notary has an opening).

[lio45]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Anecdotally, Indian and Chinese students are increasingly looking at alternatives to Canada.

No problem, we can just set our sights on even more unqualified candidates. There are billions of potential FNSs out there who aren't in Canada yet, I can't believe that by scraping the very bottom of the barrel if that's what it takes, we can't continue to find 1.5-2M suckers per year for the foreseeable future.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by lio45

No problem, we can just set our sights on even more unqualified candidates. There are billions of potential FNSs out there who aren't in Canada yet, I can't believe that by scraping the very bottom of the barrel if that's what it takes, we can't continue to find 1.5-2M suckers per year for the foreseeable future.

I know you are being sarcastic but there is certainly a near endless supply of low skilled immigrants. If there was a need there we could advertise in the US and take a million who already have north american work experience in a second. Win brownie points with Trump as well. But obviously the shortage if there ever was one is long past unless you are a fast food restaurant and tired of having employees who have any other options.

[theman23]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Even six months ago questioning basically any of these aspects of immigration was still very much a marginal, fringe view in Canada.

I've rarely seen views on an issue change so quickly - at least not in Canada as a whole.

Eh, probably longer than that. I think I stared having cab drivers of Indian origin ranting to me about the high number of immigrants in late 2022. You don’t talk to some random stranger about a topic like that unless it has a certain degree of social acceptance.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by acottawa

It may be the single stupidest public policy decision in Canadian history.

Because the backlash will only grow and the consensus is gone or you think the immigration surge is so detrimental on their own?

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by theman23

Eh, probably longer than that. I think I stared having cab drivers of Indian origin ranting to me about the high number of immigrants in late 2022. You don’t talk to some random stranger about a topic like that unless it has a certain degree of social acceptance.

The actual communities themselves have been complaining about the student surge for years. But those complaints really started skyrocketing in 2022.

[whatnext]

Originally Posted by P'tit Renard

No wonder Trudeau's Liberals are misleading Canadians saying that they're going to cap International Student numbers, and yet in reality record student visas were issued YTD 2024:

Foreign student permits are already outpacing 2023's record numbers
https://nationalpost.com/news/politi...record-numbers

According to numbers curated online by Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship Canada (IRCC), Canada handed out 216,620 international study permits in the first five months of 2024. Just 200,205 study permits were handed out during the same time period in 2023.

During the first five months of 2024, Indian students were granted 91,510 permits, more than the 85,805 granted over the same period last year.

In January, Immigration Marc Miller announced he was putting an intake cap on international student permit applications that he expected to result in approximately 360,000 approved study permits, a decrease of 35 per cent from 2023.

The issue came to a head last summer after reports of international students, unable to secure housing, were living rough on the streets and in homeless shelters — including a Conestoga College student from India found sleeping under a bridge in east-end Toronto.

Conservative immigration critic Tom Kmiec blamed the last nine years of the Trudeau government for the problem of too many temporary residents for the system to handle.

“It is so bad that the current Liberal immigration minister himself said the broken system is ‘out of control’. The previous immigration minister admitted that the system is a ‘complete mess’. Even Trudeau acknowledged their shared failure, calling the system ‘broken,'” he said.

“The Liberal government first allowed corrupt consultants and phoney educational institutions to bring students here under false pretences. Then they promised to fix the mess and bring it under control only to see things become worse amid a growing housing crisis of their making.”

Typical Trudeau Liberal lies.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by whatnext

Typical Trudeau Liberal lies.

Fool me once shame on you...

We've had people on this board and it's predecessor warning how terrible Trudeau is for 5 or 6 years now and yet we are still surprised.

[Loco101]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

There's a certain irony in some here labelling Kamala Harris as a DEI pick. Look at her resume. I struggle to think of a high level politician in Canada who comes close.

Definitely impressive resume and not under-qualified.

In Canada someone like Anita Anand is very qualified and is of a minority background and I don't know how anybody would see her as a DEI pick. She is a lawyer and was a law professor at U of T as well at some other major universities.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by YOWetal

Because the backlash will only grow and the consensus is gone or you think the immigration surge is so detrimental on their own?

All of the above. In one policy

1) broke a century of consensus on immigration
2) made a huge mess of the housing market
3) made a huge mess of the economy
4) destroyed productivity

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by Loco101

Definitely impressive resume and not under-qualified.

In Canada someone like Anita Anand is very qualified and is of a minority background and I don't know how anybody would see her as a DEI pick. She is a lawyer and was a law professor at U of T as well at some other major universities.

Given how Canadian cabinet ministers have always been selected, using the "DEI" label for any minister seems a very odd thing.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by kwoldtimer

Given how Canadian cabinet ministers have always been selected, using the "DEI" label for any minister seems a very odd thing.

Yes they are all chosen for geographic reasons but quotas is relatively new. She was academically brilliant and excelled in every job she had and that carried through to her ministerial work. Those things don't always correlate though. Ignatieff is probably the smartest leader we have had since at least the first Trudeau probably. How did that work out?
The DEI accusation will be easier to refute if you don't make prouncements about the first this and the first that and require 50% of cabinet ministers be women or X% across our economy. We are repeating the US affirmative action mistake from the 70s which seems to have been a resounding failure. Second maybe to ruining our immigration consensus this is another critical mistake.

[Acajack]

Some people may be very smart and competent and carry with them DEI points as a nice bonus. I think Anita Anand fits the bill for that.

Kamala Harris comes across as more of a shrewd politician calculating her way to the top. Again, DEI points are a bonus and not what primarily made her.

Other people are more pure DEI creations than them.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Acajack

Kamala Harris comes across as more of a shrewd politician calculating her way to the top.

I love that this is the accusation the right is going with. It's like they have no women on campaign staff. Especially younger ones.

There's a massive generational difference in how this is seen.

80s: "She's a slut sleeping her way to the top."

00s: "He was her boss and much older than her. Very difficult to refuse."

Using a bunch of 80s arguments with women under about 60 is going to backfire spectacularly. What half successful or slightly ambitious woman hasn't faced accusations of being too ambitious or faced actual predation?

It's honestly the most entertaining thing to watch of this twist in their election. Lots of guys revealing themselves to their wives, sisters and daughters for the Neanderthals they are.

Can't say I saw it coming. But that completely unhinged and undisciplined reaction is marketing she could never buy and will absolutely benefit from. They could have made it about her record. Instead they jumped right to one of the core accusations that strikes a nerve with half the population.

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by Loco101

In Canada someone like Anita Anand is very qualified and is of a minority background and I don't know how anybody would see her as a DEI pick.

Sit in a room with a bunch of middle-aged "oppressed" white men and you will hear that about almost any female (and many men) of colour rising to any power position.

[Truenorth00]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Sit in a room with a bunch of middle-aged "oppressed" white men and you will hear that about almost any female (and many men) of colour rising to any power position.

The recent reaction to the appointment of the CDS is a great example. She wasn't my first choice. And I think there's better. But so much of the reaction was just outright misogyny. Was so happy to see Erin O'Toole call it out. On the other hand, Norman Spector (who never served) posted a picture of her and the Governor General with a snide comment about Putin being scared:



Some guys cannot help themselves.... Apparently even after having served as Chief of Staff to a Prime Minister.

[shreddog]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

... Was so happy to see Erin O'Toole call it out ...

Crazy idea .... but someone should try and get the LPC brass to convince O'Toole to replace Trudeau!

He was running a platform that very much could have been the LPC's in the pre-JT years ... and he has certainly shown himself to have integrity and ethics.

Really too bad the CPC shot themselves in the foot after 2021.