Trillium Line Upgrades & Extension (Stage 2) [Greenboro to Airport/Limebank] | U/C

[lrt's friend]

No bus will run every 10 minutes. Not even the train will run at that frequency.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by acottawa

A local bus in a medium density neighbourhood comes about every 10 minutes. Optimistically you might have 1-2 buses arrive for every train departure, which would make the station look like COVID times. And I am not sure that is an improvement over bring local buses to South Keys.

Wildly optimistic I'd say and as you say even then it will be a dead white elephant station. The interest alone costing thousands per regular user.

[qprcanada]

Technical briefing for O-Train Line 2 and 4 trial running

Media are invited to attend a technical briefing for O-Train Lines 2 and 4

Date: Thursday, July 18, 2024

Time: 10 am

Location: Champlain Room, City Hall, 110 Laurier Ave W

More delays ?

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by qprcanada

Technical briefing for O-Train Line 2 and 4 trial running

Media are invited to attend a technical briefing for O-Train Lines 2 and 4

Date: Thursday, July 18, 2024

Time: 10 am

Location: Champlain Room, City Hall, 110 Laurier Ave W

More delays ?

Actually, I'd say this is positive news. It likely means they are about to start actual trial running. Raises a question I didn't think of before. Can 1 line operate without the other? I.e. they decide Line 4 passes, or Line 2 passes, and the other fails, would they hold both lines?

[J.OT13]

Originally Posted by kmcamp

Actually, I'd say this is positive news. It likely means they are about to start actual trial running. Raises a question I didn't think of before. Can 1 line operate without the other? I.e. they decide Line 4 passes, or Line 2 passes, and the other fails, would they hold both lines?

Hoping for some timelines, start date for trial period, number of consecutive days needed, time before opening after successful trial.

Line 2 could work without Line 4, but not the other way around. That said, the South Keys transfer is critical to Line 4, and that can't be tested with Line 2 taking passengers, so I assume both will need to pass.

[DTcrawler]

Originally Posted by J.OT13

Line 2 could work without Line 4, but not the other way around.

That was my initial thought as well but the more I think about it, why not?

[ottawaballa]

Based on the latest post in the thread linked below, the transfer time between lines 2 and 4 at South Keys will be 7 minutes. The trip between South Keys and the Airport will be 9 minutes.

It will take significantly longer to get between downtown and the airport once Lines 2 and 4 open than what we currently have.

https://skyrisecities.com/forum/thre...4.37751/page-3

[DTcrawler]

That's outrageous. Assuming the above is correct, that'll be twice now where Trillium Line upgrades have not been able to deliver on promised frequency, with the issue somehow only being discovered in the final stages of construction.

Can someone with more knowledge on these matters please explain how the hell this is possible? In 2016 frequency on the line was supposed to go from 15 minutes to 8 min but only 12 min was achieved. Now a 2 min transfer between Lines 2 and 4 becomes 7 min??? Are there not engineers who model this stuff before the design is finalized? Really hoping this is a short interim solution to get the line open otherwise it will be a huge disappointment (not to mention the pocket track will be pretty much obsolete).

[kmcamp]

Well line 4 was always going to be a downgrade. But it was never going to be a high ridership thing anyway. I'm more concerned about how line 2 will operate in the end

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

That's outrageous. Assuming the above is correct, that'll be twice now where Trillium Line upgrades have not been able to deliver on promised frequency, with the issue somehow only being discovered in the final stages of construction.

Can someone with more knowledge on these matters please explain how the hell this is possible? In 2016 frequency on the line was supposed to go from 15 minutes to 8 min but only 12 min was achieved. Now a 2 min transfer between Lines 2 and 4 becomes 7 min??? Are there not engineers who model this stuff before the design is finalized? Really hoping this is a short interim solution to get the line open otherwise it will be a huge disappointment (not to mention the pocket track will be pretty much obsolete).

I am guessing the testing has probably revealed the complicated plan they had to coordinate the two lines will not work in practice and 7 minutes is just the wait time or the two lines arriving randomly.

It doesn’t really matter. This was never a plan to get to the airport. It was a plan to say Ottawa had a train to the airport.

[ponyboycurtis]

Originally Posted by acottawa

I am guessing the testing has probably revealed the complicated plan they had to coordinate the two lines will not work in practice and 7 minutes is just the wait time or the two lines arriving randomly.

It doesn’t really matter. This was never a plan to get to the airport. It was a plan to say Ottawa had a train to the airport.

I suppose in the future you will be able to ride all the way to Bayview. Definitely seems short sighted for the time being though.

You think international travelers don't have 30 bucks for an Uber?? Why on earth would you bother with this connection? Especially during the winter. Unless your Hotel is like the Delta and across the street from Lyon why on earth would you bother with this. Makes no sense.

I say this as someone who has both taken trains and Uber/Bolts from airports.

I just spent 20 hours in transit with two connections and you want to to catch three trains and then walk to my fraking hotel??? That ain't gonna happen Chief.

Bangkok is the only spot I've been where the Airport train is worth it, because it brings you somewhere extremely relevant at high speed with limited stops.

I live in South Keys and I cant be arsed to take transit to the Airport. 90/92 and then wait for the 97? Makes no sense. I can Uber for pocket change unless I bum a ride from my Dad just so we can see each other off.

[acottawa]

Originally Posted by ponyboycurtis

Bangkok is the only spot I've been where the Airport train is worth it, because it brings you somewhere extremely relevant at high speed with limited stops.

There are lots of places where the airport train is worth it. In most European or Asian cities (and some North American cities) I wouldn't even consider taking a cab unless I was burdened with an unusual amount of luggage. Three trains to replace a 20 minute cab ride is almost certainly in the not worth it category.

It might be worth it for the EY centre though, I can park at South Keys for free and save $10 in parking.

[kmcamp]

Originally Posted by acottawa

There are lots of places where the airport train is worth it. In most European or Asian cities (and some North American cities) I wouldn't even consider taking a cab unless I was burdened with an unusual amount of luggage. Three trains to replace a 20 minute cab ride is almost certainly in the not worth it category.

It might be worth it for the EY centre though, I can park at South Keys for free and save $10 in parking.

Same here. It would be a great for a big event for something like Comicon, where parking overflows to the old military base. The airport, not so much

[Multi-modal]

Originally Posted by DTcrawler

That's outrageous. Assuming the above is correct, that'll be twice now where Trillium Line upgrades have not been able to deliver on promised frequency, with the issue somehow only being discovered in the final stages of construction.

Can someone with more knowledge on these matters please explain how the hell this is possible? In 2016 frequency on the line was supposed to go from 15 minutes to 8 min but only 12 min was achieved. Now a 2 min transfer between Lines 2 and 4 becomes 7 min??? Are there not engineers who model this stuff before the design is finalized? Really hoping this is a short interim solution to get the line open otherwise it will be a huge disappointment (not to mention the pocket track will be pretty much obsolete).

The reason given to Rail Fans Canada was that to use the pocket track in the service pattern they originally plan (providing those lovely 2-minute transfers) required a lot of switch movements. It would be simpler and less wear and tear on the switches/vehicles if they didn't use the pocket track at all. So, of course, that is what they decided to do - customer experience be damned!

Now they will only use the pocket track in emergency or special situations, and the transfers will be 7 minutes...

O, and they tried to sell this to Rail Fans Canada and other media as an improvement.

[OTSkyline]

2min would have been great, 7 is unacceptable. Needs to be under 5... so tops 3-4 minutes. Make it happen.

[YOWetal]

Originally Posted by Multi-modal

The reason given to Rail Fans Canada was that to use the pocket track in the service pattern they originally plan (providing those lovely 2-minute transfers) required a lot of switch movements. It would be simpler and less wear and tear on the switches/vehicles if they didn't use the pocket track at all. So, of course, that is what they decided to do - customer experience be damned!

Now they will only use the pocket track in emergency or special situations, and the transfers will be 7 minutes...

O, and they tried to sell this to Rail Fans Canada and other media as an improvement.

This is scandalous. I guess they will gain ridership over the bus because a lot of people are afraid of a bus but what a disaster. I was always big on including the airport because I think it brings support for rail from people who don't otherwise use transit. I fear this will be the opposite. People will take the train arrive at Rideau Centre 45 minutes later? and curse the whole system.

As AC says it was about saying there is a train to the airport. South Keys may lauch an airport parking service which would be ironic as that is the big fear of a convenient transit link losing parking revenue and instead would lose drivers.