Salt Lake City: Official Development News Thread - Part 5

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by Paniolo Man

I want to see new buildings, but we have a habit of assuming that historic preservation is a zero-sum game: We can have the old stuff or we can have the new stuff.

Unfortunately, it often is. Every single building downtown was built on something that was likely considered somewhat historic before.

I think a great example is Block 57. This was, at one point a very historic block that the RDA decided to take over in the late 1980s and essentially redevelop.





Of course, that turned into Gallivan Center and I would wager most see it as probably one of the better developed blocks in the city.

Preservation has to be balanced. We should always fight for the most significant of buildings but also realize that some, unfortunately, are just not going to make it.

[delts145]

This is going to be an exciting decade leading up to the Olympics. I can only imagine that Salt Lake's ranking will move closer to the top of the top 10 rankings as new public transit additions and improvements are probably fast-tracked and come online.

Top Ten U.S. Public Transportation Cities

https://www.engenhusutah.com/blog/salt-lake-city-train

U.S. public transit systems, ranked
In this study, we examined a range of data points from the U.S. Department of Transportation's National Transit Database and calculated a score for each city, with a maximum number of 100 points achievable. You can read the full methodology @ https://www.goodgoodgood.co/articles...20-%2014435912


Here's how the cities stacked up:

1. New York, New York
Annual public transit trips per metro area resident: 144.2
Share of stations ADA-compliant: 51.4%
Safety score (combining fatalities and serious injuries): 13.07 out of 20
Average fare revenue per trip: $1.75
The nation's most populous metro area is served by a large number of transit agencies, with trains and buses covering the five boroughs of New York City itself, as well as areas well into New Jersey, Connecticut and downstate New York. While the average fare revenue is higher than most, it's still cheaper per trip than in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, and Buffalo, New York.



2. San Francisco, California
Annual public transit trips per metro area resident: 53.6
Share of stations ADA-compliant: 97%
Safety score (combining fatalities and serious injuries): 13.91 out of 20
Average fare revenue per one-way trip: $1.63
With the third-worst commuter traffic in the nation, San Francisco residents might be desperate for other ways to get around. Fortunately, Bay Area Rapid Transit connects the city with its suburbs, and the Muni bus and train system – including the city's famous cable cars – gets people around the city itself. There are also free shuttles to get people to and from public parks.



3. Los Angeles, California
Annual public transit trips per metro area resident: 29
Share of stations ADA-compliant: 100%
Safety score (combining fatalities and serious injuries): 16.48 out of 20
Average fare revenue per one-way trip: 49 cents
Los Angeles, well known as a sprawling car-oriented metropolis, has a transit system that doesn't get as much use per capita as other cities' services. However, it's one of the safest and most affordable transit systems nationwide.



4. Richmond, Virginia
Annual public transit trips per metro area resident: 8.5
Share of stations ADA-compliant: 100%
Safety score (combining fatalities and serious injuries): 18.27 out of 20
Average fare revenue per one-way trip: 24 cents
With free local bus fares across the city, including high-speed buses with some dedicated lanes that provide service every 10 minutes on weekdays and every 15 minutes on weekends, Richmond's public transit system is safer and more efficient than many other large cities' services. Unfortunately, it is used less frequently than any other system mentioned in our top 10 list.



5. San Diego, California
Annual public transit trips per metro area resident: 21
Share of stations ADA-compliant: 100%
Safety score (combining fatalities and serious injuries): 14.74 out of 20
Average fare revenue per one-way trip: $1.10
A new safety initiative, expanded service and upcoming investments in new vehicles, including electric buses, are drawing riders to San Diego's trolleys and buses, which serve the downtown area and the surrounding communities.



6. San Antonio, Texas
Annual public transit trips per metro area resident: 12.6
Share of stations ADA-compliant: 100%
Safety score (combining fatalities and serious injuries): 18.44 out of 20
Average fare revenue per one-way trip: 58 cents
San Antonio's bus service spans the city and is set to expand in the coming years. The agency that runs it, VIA Metropolitan Transit, is also working to make its service schedules and maps more comprehensible to prospective users. The city is also considering new zoning rules that would make denser housing along high-capacity bus lines easier for developers to build.



7. Boston, Massachusetts
Annual public transit trips per metro area resident: 47.5
Share of stations ADA-compliant: 78%
Safety score (combining fatalities and serious injuries): 14.57 out of 20
Average fare revenue per one-way trip: $1.63
In Boston, a city well known for confounding even local drivers with one-way streets and hairpin turns, it's tempting to let someone else handle navigation. Even with a relatively expensive average fare and incomplete ADA compliance at stations, the city's MBTA trains and buses are relied on more heavily than transit vehicles in other large cities.



8. Seattle, Washington
Annual public transit trips per metro area resident: 36.7
Share of stations ADA-compliant: 99.1%
Safety score (combining fatalities and serious injuries): 14.52 out of 20
Average fare revenue per one-way trip: $1.57
Seattle's public transit system, which includes buses, trains, and ferries, links its suburbs, downtown area and nearby islands. In 2024, the city is asking voters to raise their taxes to pay for a 20-year transportation plan that includes pothole repair and expanded transit services.



9. Washington, D.C.
Annual public transit trips per metro area resident: 36.7
Share of stations ADA-compliant: 100%
Safety score (combining fatalities and serious injuries): 15.41 out of 20
Average fare revenue per one-way trip: $1.29
The D.C. area's roads are so famously congested that people joke there is no rush hour at all — except all the time. Fortunately, the Metro system encompasses trains, buses and subways run by city officials and state and local agencies in neighboring Maryland and Virginia.



10. Salt Lake City, Utah
Annual public transit trips per metro area resident: 26.7
Share of stations ADA-compliant: 100%
Safety score (combining fatalities and serious injuries): 11.83 out of 20
Average fare revenue per one-way trip: $1.07
Bus and rail lines crisscross the city and the surrounding county. The city's plans for transit expansion call for additional services by 2030 and are being used to tempt Olympic officials to consider it as a location for the 2034 Winter Games.

.

[wrendog]

Lol. San Antonio at 6???? Public transportation is awful here. That list is no bueno.

[Orlando]

Has anyone heard any new news about the proposed Sugarhouse high-rise? I recently heard that it was approved at a lower height, but I haven't seen anything official yet.

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by wrendog

Lol. San Antonio at 6???? Public transportation is awful here. That list is no bueno.

Same with Richmond lol

[wrendog]

Originally Posted by Comrade

Same with Richmond lol

Good call.

For San Antonio, the frequency is terrible and the coverage ain't great. And it's just buses. People here don't care about public transit here either. They just expanded the freeway right near my house and as part of the expansion, there is a special left lane exit to a fancy bridge intersection leading to a new 4 story parking garage for park and ride for buses downtown. I have NEVER seen a single car take that exit, and when you look at the garage, you see maybe 4 cars total in the whole place. It's an unfortunate disaster.

[i-215]

Originally Posted by delts145

3. Los Angeles, California
Annual public transit trips per metro area resident: 29
Share of stations ADA-compliant: 100%
Safety score (combining fatalities and serious injuries): 16.48 out of 20
Average fare revenue per one-way trip: 49 cents
Los Angeles, well known as a sprawling car-oriented metropolis, has a transit system that doesn't get as much use per capita as other cities' services. However, it's one of the safest and most affordable transit systems nationwide.

Everything about this is laughable. METROLINK (not part of Metro) is okay, but really not as useful in a post-COVID world (WFH is still big here in the I.E.)

Yes, the Metro system is ADA compliant. But that's simply because it's new. Subway stations are/were as nice as D.C.'s.

But on Metro itself, it's really only useful between Wilshire and Union Station and *maybe* Hollywood and Union Station. But those are never places I need to go. It's really pretty impossible to use Los Angeles without a car, even if you try. And while this is considering LA proper, out in the I.E. it's even worse. It is literally impossible to get from where I live to Ontario Airport on transit. (I tried last week).

When the people mover at LAX opens, the Metro line to the airport will become a lot more useful. I question if it will actually be faster to ride METROLINK -> Metro -> Another Metro -> People Mover versus just taking the Flyaway Bus to LAX instead.

However, it's one of the safest and most affordable transit systems nationwide.

But here's where it gets ridiculous. To write this in the middle of a safety crisis at Metro (it's a HUGE local story) is laughable and shows the author just copy-and-pasted from something without any fact checking. Yes, Metro WAS a very safe system pre-COVID. There was a time earlier this summer where there was a violent incident (stabbings, etc.) nearly daily.

https://www.foxla.com/news/la-metro-...fety-emergency
https://www.latimes.com/california/n...ial-california
https://ktla.com/news/local-news/bac...span-of-hours/

While I'm sure Metro will eventually get a handle on it (they contract with the L.A. Sheriff for security), it is not currently a system I would recommend anyone ride if they don't have to.

[i-215]

Originally Posted by Orlando

Has anyone heard any new news about the proposed Sugarhouse high-rise? I recently heard that it was approved at a lower height, but I haven't seen anything official yet.

Are you talking about the old Sizzler site? Or a different project?

[Comrade]

This was from last week:

https://www.slc.gov/planning/2024/07...enhouse-00960/

[rockies]

Originally Posted by Comrade

This was from last week:

https://www.slc.gov/planning/2024/07...enhouse-00960/

This really sucks... makes me feel this place is so lame

[Rileybo]

Max height of 150’ in Sugar House… yay. What an exciting future.

[bob rulz]

150' in Sugarhouse is about twice the height of the current tallest building in Sugarhouse. A 150' building in Sugarhouse would still be very prominent.

I think people here really underestimate how much demand there actually is for high-rises. We have unlimited heights in D-1 and we have for a long time and still our tallest building is only 450'. Is there really a market for a significant number of high-rises in Sugarhouse exceeding 8-10 stories anyway? If the demand is there in the future, zoning can change. If the MU-15 zone does go through, that will at least give the option for taller buildings in Sugarhouse where that doesn't currently exist.

[wrendog]

10-15 story towers in Sugarhouse sound perfect, honestly

[Comrade]

Originally Posted by bob rulz

150' in Sugarhouse is about twice the height of the current tallest building in Sugarhouse. A 150' building in Sugarhouse would still be very prominent.

I think people here really underestimate how much demand there actually is for high-rises. We have unlimited heights in D-1 and we have for a long time and still our tallest building is only 450'. Is there really a market for a significant number of high-rises in Sugarhouse exceeding 8-10 stories anyway? If the demand is there in the future, zoning can change. If the MU-15 zone does go through, that will at least give the option for taller buildings in Sugarhouse where that doesn't currently exist.

I think you're way overestimating how big 150 feet is.

That's roughly the size as the old Tribune Building:



Probably not much bigger (maybe 50 feet bigger) than the Redman Building (or whatever it's called) and that certainly doesn't feel prominent even though it sits pretty much alone.

[bob rulz]

The Redman Building is only 6 stories. It is nowhere close to 150 feet. Even at a more generous 12' per floor plus the crown, it's probably closer to 80'. It's also pretty fat so it looks kind of squat for its height.

[bob rulz]

You can't tell me a 150-foot building right on the corner of 1100 East/2100 South wouldn't look prominent from this view.

https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7254...5410&entry=ttu

I think people really overestimate how much height there actually is in Sugarhouse.

[zurich]

[QUOTE=bob rulz;10247957]You can't tell me a 150-foot building right on the corner of 1100 East/2100 South wouldn't look prominent from this view.

The closer you get to the mountains / foothills, I think 150 ft is more than adequate. Tall buildings right up against the foothills look horrible - look at Canyon Crest condos - maybe 120 ft tall - looks, odd and just out of place (no offense if someone lives there as the inside is probably great.) The beautiful lake and Sugar house park with the unobstructed views of the mountains... I have no problem with even a shorter height limit in Sugar House. Just my opinion.