The Official Saint John, NB Project Thread

[adamuptownsj]

St Vincent is very much alive. The roof is done, or nearly, and there's guys in and out of it regularly. It's a monstrous project, I presume gutting is next.

So is our 54 unit at 208 Waterloo. Just some delays, same with Barrack Green.

Queen Square North was basically a rezoning request with a very long timeline attached, Historica didn't make any big promises AFAIK.

Landmark and Crown/Leinster were never more than land purchases, rezoning, and renders. Almost everyone here was highly sceptical of the Landmark in particular.

Ethos Ridge is an extreme dud.

[darkharbour]

I heard city officials discuss the Landmark recently as if it was still on the table, someone senior described the infrastructure work down Charlotte and in the South End beyond Lower Cover as being required for servicing large projects and named it specifically.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

I heard city officials discuss the Landmark recently as if it was still on the table, someone senior described the infrastructure work down Charlotte and in the South End beyond Lower Cover as being required for servicing large projects and named it specifically.

Not to get conspiratorial, but I'd bet 'the Landmark' doesn't actually mean that building right now; they're probably using it as a euphuism for whatever [Cooke or someone else?] is planning south of Vulcan St, which is very much up in the air.

AFAIK the infra work along Sydney south of Broad to Tin Can Beach last summer checked any boxes needed for a development on the Landmark site.

[darkharbour]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Not to get conspiratorial, but I'd bet 'the Landmark' doesn't actually mean that building right now; they're probably using it as a euphuism for whatever [Cooke or someone else?] is planning south of Vulcan St, which is very much up in the air.

AFAIK the infra work along Sydney south of Broad to Tin Can Beach last summer checked any boxes needed for a development on the Landmark site.

Very possible indeed, I was just repeating what I had been told over the past few weeks. I would love if something large happened down there, it would really help spread the flow of the city - and investment - further south.

[DyAm00394]

Project card for the Irving Pulp Mill upgrades are on the CCD Canada website.

“Starting Date (estimated): N/A
Location: SAINT JOHN (NB)
Size: $765,700,000.00
Stage: 4-Drawing
Published: 2024-07-15
Last Update: 2024-07-15

Work type: Expansion / Addition
Sector: Private
Category: 1-Industrial
Subcategorie: 1M-Pulp & Paper
Disciplines: Architecture, Civil, Electricity, Environment, Equipment, HVAC, Instrumentation, Building mechanic, Industrial mechanic, Industrial process, Structural, Other

DESCRIPTION:

PULP MILL UPGRADE & EXPANSION

Located in Saint John, this project (Irving Pulp & Paper Ltd), estimated at $765 700 000 is in the drawings stage. It is scheduled to begin in January 2025. Works concern the modernization and expansion of the pulp mill to increase production capacity to 1 800 metric tons of Kraft pulp per day and 140 MW of electrical power. It includes site preparation, modification of building space; construction of equipment foundations and a heat recovery boiler, the expansion of the recaustification plant and the installation of steam turbines, generators, emergency back-up burners, a chimney flue gases, evaporators, electrostatic precipitators, piping, compressors and pumps”.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by darkharbour

Very possible indeed, I was just repeating what I had been told over the past few weeks. I would love if something large happened down there, it would really help spread the flow of the city - and investment - further south.

Yep. AFAIK these PANs are where any actual construction would happen.
https://paol-efel.snb.ca/paol.html?v...n&pan=05139870
https://paol-efel.snb.ca/paol.html?v...n&pan=01619705

Maybe the bit of the spur rail ROW west of Sydney too https://paol-efel.snb.ca/paol.html?v...n&pan=05053155

I don't know if any plans include much more than landscaping and remediation of the Lantic site proper, but I am not in the loop at all on this, of course. https://paol-efel.snb.ca/paol.html?v...n&pan=01619543

There's a lot of potential down at the tip of the South End (47 to 59 Broad, 182 to 190 Britain, surplus land south of the Garrison, the bottom of Germain, Victor Train's dozen lots between St James/Charlotte/Ross, etc. Level land, no particular obvious construction challenges, zoning would assuredly be flexible around all-residential and mixed use.

[dhottawa729]

I was really curious how 91 King and Fundy Quay would impact the skyline so out came Sketchup and Google Earth to the rescue. I wish 91 King was a lot taller and Fundy Quay a lot shorter, to be honest! It would have been ideal to have the taller buildings on top of the hill with the shorter buildings hiding the hill as it gives the impression of taller buildings and results in a more impressive skyline. Zooming around from all angles, it’s hard to find a picture-perfect skyline angle. If Fundy Quay ends up being very high quality, this might not be so bad though! I had to try to convince myself the weird things atop 91 King were fine, but I still hate them. A 19-storey building at 91 King would have looked amazing!

[MonctonRad]

Looks good!

You should also post this in the Future Skylines thread in the Canada section too.

EDIT - Did it myself.

[adamuptownsj]

Lorneville opposition to industrial park at 800 signatures. Ignoring them is imperative. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...tion-1.7263744

Interestingly, the city is extending water services- presumably from Spruce Lake- so this isn't a warehouse with ~30 employees being proposed. Must be a serious industrial user.

This link about the expansion is useful: https://shapeyourcitysaintjohn.ca/sp...1pvfkJT1AATNHQ

[TitleRequired]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Lorneville opposition to industrial park at 800 signatures. Ignoring them is imperative.

Agreed.

I'm quite surprised there would be any resistance at all; but some people have low agreeability. Now we know who....

[EnvisionSaintJohn]

Originally Posted by dhottawa729

I was really curious how 91 King and Fundy Quay would impact the skyline so out came Sketchup and Google Earth to the rescue. I wish 91 King was a lot taller and Fundy Quay a lot shorter, to be honest! It would have been ideal to have the taller buildings on top of the hill with the shorter buildings hiding the hill as it gives the impression of taller buildings and results in a more impressive skyline. Zooming around from all angles, it’s hard to find a picture-perfect skyline angle. If Fundy Quay ends up being very high quality, this might not be so bad though! I had to try to convince myself the weird things atop 91 King were fine, but I still hate them. A 19-storey building at 91 King would have looked amazing!

91 King would have looked a lot better as 19+ storeys. Guess we need to attract developers from outside the area to get such projects built here in SJ. Hopefully one day…

[sailor734]

I'm actually surprised at how spread out those taller buildings look. In most cities' skylines you see a fairly tight cluster of highrises overlapping.

Wonder what that iconic view you get from the Throughway when you crest the hill on the Westside will look like? That's the angle I always picture when I think of SJ's skyline.

[adamuptownsj]

Originally Posted by TitleRequired

Agreed.

I'm quite surprised there would be any resistance at all; but some people have low agreeability. Now we know who....

If they lived in bucolic woodlands I'd get it, but this is an extension to an existing industrial park, among a bunch of wind turbines, up the road from Coleson Cove. Whatever it is, it should provide a bunch of jobs and has to jump through a bunch of environmental regulatory approval hoops.

The actual 'sensitive wetlands' are on the other side of this PAN anyway, and should be protected as they're part of the Musquash watershed.

Not development-related, but consolidating the various provincial, federal, Nature Conservancy, and Ducks Unlimited protected areas around Musqash, along with some private land, into a second Fundy National Park would be an extremely good idea. It's already riddled with trails and has a different biome/geology than Fundy's current lands, and could be connected in some way to the Loch Alva wilderness area. Splitting the baby is possible here!

It would not be too onerous to connect the Split Rock/Black Beach/Five Fathom trail network to the Irving Nature Park with a few roadside stretches in between.

[TitleRequired]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Not development-related, but consolidating the various provincial, federal, Nature Conservancy, and Ducks Unlimited protected areas around Musqash, along with some private land, into a second Fundy National Park would be an extremely good idea. It's already riddled with trails and has a different biome/geology than Fundy's current lands, and could be connected in some way to the Loch Alva wilderness area. Splitting the baby is possible here!

It would not be too onerous to connect the Split Rock/Black Beach/Five Fathom trail network to the Irving Nature Park with a few roadside stretches in between.

That's an interesting idea. Or as Keji has as an seashore adjunct.

[adamuptownsj]

To elaborate on the Musquash-area land, here's a detailed map of ~12 discontiguous Nature Conservancy parcels (13 counting nearby Round mMadow Cove): https://ncc-gis.maps.arcgis.com/apps...84a0ac25cc4f12 Loch Alva is picked out pretty cleanly north of this.

Musquash Estuary Marine Protected Area (federal): https://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/oceans/mpa...index-eng.html

Can't find any detail on the Ducks Unlimited lands.

We also don't need three different kinds of protected area in the Fundy National Park vicinity. Big Salmon and Little Salmon Rivers, and nearby Dowdall Lake, Protected Natural Areas, plus the Fundy Trail, and scattered Conservancy, PNA, etc. land in southern Albert County should all be combined with the National Park.

~5 different conservation-oriented regimes govern what really isn't that much territory, often bordering each other. We have an opportunity to really enhance natural protection on the Fundy coast and better market ourselves as a place where you can have serious industry and wilderness in proximity. I doubt Musquash would become a second Alma, but Saint John would surely benefit.

[Woho]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Lorneville opposition to industrial park at 800 signatures. Ignoring them is imperative. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...tion-1.7263744

Interestingly, the city is extending water services- presumably from Spruce Lake- so this isn't a warehouse with ~30 employees being proposed. Must be a serious industrial user.

This link about the expansion is useful: https://shapeyourcitysaintjohn.ca/sp...1pvfkJT1AATNHQ

So who's going to organize a petition in support of the industrial park? I'll sign it and I know many others will too.

[sailor734]

Might be easier to either support or oppose the expansion if we knew the plan.

[DyAm00394]

From an AllNewBrunswick article from July 9th that is available to view for free as a “sample issue”.

Apparently developer, Erik de Jong, is doing another new project but in Grand Bay-Westfield. This one is a partnership with Maple Leaf Homes of Fredericton on a 24-unit townhouse and garden home development.

In the article was an update on the St.Vincent’s and St. Patrick’s projects.

“While he prepares to take on Colonel Nase Boulevard, de Jong is also busy with multiple projects in Saint John.

At the former St. Patrick's School on the city's west side, de Jong said the project to transform it into apartments is now out for tender.

At the former St. Vincent's on Cliff Street, de Jong said crews have finished roof work and are now working on mold and asbestos abatement, which he expects will take four to six months”.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by DyAm00394

From an AllNewBrunswick article from July 9th that is available to view for free as a “sample issue”.

Apparently developer, Erik de Jong, is doing another new project but in Grand Bay-Westfield. This one is a partnership with Maple Leaf Homes of Fredericton on a 24-unit townhouse and garden home development.

In the article was an update on the St.Vincent’s and St. Patrick’s projects.

“While he prepares to take on Colonel Nase Boulevard, de Jong is also busy with multiple projects in Saint John.

At the former St. Patrick's School on the city's west side, de Jong said the project to transform it into apartments is now out for tender.

At the former St. Vincent's on Cliff Street, de Jong said crews have finished roof work and are now working on mold and asbestos abatement, which he expects will take four to six months”.

Great to hear that things are moving ahead.

The Grand Bay project is interesting due to the modular, prefab home angle.

[sailor734]

Originally Posted by adamuptownsj

Lorneville opposition to industrial park at 800 signatures. Ignoring them is imperative. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-b...tion-1.7263744

Interestingly, the city is extending water services- presumably from Spruce Lake- so this isn't a warehouse with ~30 employees being proposed. Must be a serious industrial user.

This link about the expansion is useful: https://shapeyourcitysaintjohn.ca/sp...1pvfkJT1AATNHQ

I notice the mayor felt compelled to tweet a denial that the expansion was to provide a new home for AIM.

Rumours must be flying.